Attic heater

ANSI

Are attic heaters safe? Is there any possibility of a fire bing caused with the insulation. I would have thought they were safe but a friend questions this. Looks like it may be cold again this winter so want to prepare

JohnnieK

Just insulate your pipe's and tank.

ANSI

JohnnieK wrote: »

Just insulate your pipe's and tank.

that does not work in the place i am referring to. tanks freeze over and are insulated as a re pipes

daithi55

a neighbour of mine left the loft door open and the heat that traveled up was sufficient to stops pipes etc from freezing

JohnnieK

ANSI wrote: »

that does not work in the place i am referring to. tanks freeze over and are insulated as a re pipes

Where is it you are referring too?

Joey the lips

If your using an attic heater to stop the tank freezing my worry would be that its heating the tank. If this is the case then you have to watch out for legonaires....

I only know that insulation and a good lid works but then again i stand to be corrected.

byhookorbycrook

We just bought a frost heater, only kicks in, as the name suggests once temp goes down. It is to be hung on the roof timber nearest the tank. Friend suggeted it be put on the light circuit rather than on a socket as you'd know sooner if it blew.

meercat

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

We just bought a frost heater, only kicks in, as the name suggests once temp goes down. It is to be hung on the roof timber nearest the tank. Friend suggeted it be put on the light circuit rather than on a socket as you'd know sooner if it blew.

wouldnt advise you to put that load(500watt or more) on a light circuit
best practice would be a socket circuit(possibly switched from bedroom or landing,with neon light)
i know getting a socket circuit to attic is not as easy but at least it should be rcd protected (if there is one fitted)

Billy Bunting

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

We just bought a frost heater, only kicks in, as the name suggests once temp goes down. It is to be hung on the roof timber nearest the tank. Friend suggeted it be put on the light circuit rather than on a socket as you'd know sooner if it blew.

They need to be on a fireproof surface and usually dificult to find a location that will except the minimum distances above and below, also they can end up running for some time before they switch off if they are in a large roof space area, if set at too high a temperature can end up loosing all the heat through the roof and never shut off. :eek:

Fit a frost stat up there and leave the loft door open.

freddyuk

Is the house that cold in winter? If the room below the tank is above freezing temperature the tank should not freeze. Is there insulation under the tank as it should be removed if the tank is on the attic floor.
Is there a draft in the attic?
If you leave the attic door open and there is no ventilation through the attic you can get a lot of water dripping off the roof onto everything in the attic as the warm air condenses on the cooler roof.
What is the the tank and pipes insulated with? Foam or glassfibre? Is it properly applied with no gaps?

youtheman

Electrical suppliers have recognised a 'gap' in the market following last years artic conditions. There is a range of electrical heaters with built in frost thermostats available. I saw a nice kit that included an I.R. lamp, pre wired to a frost stat and 3-pin plug (just plug and play). This is the piece of kit I would get if I was worried about it (Dwyers here in Cork).

DublinDilbert

There seems to be a real mixture of replies on this topic, not just in this thread but other threads last year etc...

Firstly many cold countries store water up the the attic like ireland/england do. Most countries will distribute under high pressure and regulate that down where it comes into the house, hence illuminating part of the reason for the tank in the attic.

If you insulate things correctly and you've enough heat leaking up from your house, you should be ok. But remember insulation can only do so much, wrapping a snow man with insulation doesn't make him any warmer.

If you do insulate everything and have an insulated lid on thanks, putting a heater up there isn't going to do much good as the heat can't get to the tank. I also wouldn't like to have a heater running un-attended in my attic for extended periods.

I think the best solution would be to get some of that "heat flex", chawicks are selling for about €50 and wrap all pipes & tank with it. The insulate everything as good as you can over this. The if you have any issues with freezing just power up the heat flex. Will use a fraction of the power that any heater will need.

ANSI

DublinDilbert wrote: »

There seems to be a real mixture of replies on this topic, not just in this thread but other threads last year etc...

Firstly many cold countries store water up the the attic like ireland/england do. Most countries will distribute under high pressure and regulate that down where it comes into the house, hence illuminating part of the reason for the tank in the attic.

If you insulate things correctly and you've enough heat leaking up from your house, you should be ok. But remember insulation can only do so much, wrapping a snow man with insulation doesn't make him any warmer.

If you do insulate everything and have an insulated lid on thanks, putting a heater up there isn't going to do much good as the heat can't get to the tank. I also wouldn't like to have a heater running un-attended in my attic for extended periods.

I think the best solution would be to get some of that "heat flex", chawicks are selling for about €50 and wrap all pipes & tank with it. The insulate everything as good as you can over this. The if you have any issues with freezing just power up the heat flex. Will use a fraction of the power that any heater will need.

That does not work for the house I am writing about. Can you link heat flex? How do you power it up?

ANSI

JohnnieK wrote: »

Where is it you are referring too?

hous eof my friend. Like it or not it is insulated etc and the tank freezes over. Trying to help him avoid this year

ANSI

freddyuk wrote: »

Is the house that cold in winter? If the room below the tank is above freezing temperature the tank should not freeze. Is there insulation under the tank as it should be removed if the tank is on the attic floor.
Is there a draft in the attic?
If you leave the attic door open and there is no ventilation through the attic you can get a lot of water dripping off the roof onto everything in the attic as the warm air condenses on the cooler roof.
What is the the tank and pipes insulated with? Foam or glassfibre? Is it properly applied with no gaps?

:rolleyes:

ANSI

youtheman wrote: »

Electrical suppliers have recognised a 'gap' in the market following last years artic conditions. There is a range of electrical heaters with built in frost thermostats available. I saw a nice kit that included an I.R. lamp, pre wired to a frost stat and 3-pin plug (just plug and play). This is the piece of kit I would get if I was worried about it (Dwyers here in Cork).

Do you have as link or the name.
I saw a Cold Watch in woodies would that be safe in attic

DublinDilbert

ANSI wrote: »

That does not work for the house I am writing about. Can you link heat flex? How do you power it up?

That is why i said "should" work, cause it might not always work depending on the house.

It sounds like insulation isn't enough in your case. I would defo apply low level direct heat under the insulation to the pipes and tank. The 10m cable would probably be plenty and just need to be powered up off a timer for 1 hour here and there.

I've attached an image and the flyer is here:-
http://www.chadwicks.ie/component/flippingbook/book/5.html?page=1

ANSI

DublinDilbert wrote: »

That is why i said "should" work, cause it might not always work depending on the house.

It sounds like insulation isn't enough in your case. I would defo apply low level direct heat under the insulation to the pipes and tank. The 10m cable would probably be plenty and just need to be powered up off a timer for 1 hour here and there.

I've attached an image and the flyer is here:-
http://www.chadwicks.ie/component/flippingbook/book/5.html?page=1

thanks. No the normal insualtion does not work for him
Looks like a good idea. No danger of it starting a fire with it?

DublinDilbert

ANSI wrote: »

thanks. No the normal insualtion does not work for him
Looks like a good idea. No danger of it starting a fire with it?

Yea that's the problem with insulation, some people think it will perform miracles. Put a good jacket on a snow man, will it make him warmer? not a chance.

Check out the specs on the product, but i'd say its only 1W or so per meter.

hopalong_ie

I think all these frost watch heaters etc are a bit of a scam. If they kick in at 5c then simply buy any dimplex glen electric heater which all have a minimum thermostat value of 5c anyway and cost a fraction. Last year in Powercity you could buy a 2kw Glen Heater for 20 euro and as per the booklet the minimum temp setting per the thermostat was five degrees. A another ten euro would have got me one with selectable power settings, 800, 1400 and 2kw. Cold Watch for 60 euro is a bit much.

LJL

we got an infrared bulb for our attic at our local electrical place. they are designed for attics and if you get the thermostat it can be set to come on as low as -5 and turns off again when it goes over. we also put more insulation in the attic and have had no trouble with frozen water tanks. id say its alot safer than a heater as they are more designed for attics etc

have the link here..http://www.mullingarelectrical.com/catalogue/frost-watch-c_186-/frost-protection-kit-p_8574-/

DublinDilbert

LJL wrote: »

we got an infrared bulb for our attic at our local electrical place. they are designed for attics and if you get the thermostat it can be set to come on as low as -5 and turns off again when it goes over. we also put more insulation in the attic and have had no trouble with frozen water tanks. id say its alot safer than a heater as they are more designed for attics etc

have the link here..http://www.mullingarelectrical.com/catalogue/frost-watch-c_186-/frost-protection-kit-p_8574-/

If your tanks + pipes are all properly lagged / covered, how does the heat get from the lamp into them?

LJL

im not giving you a smart answer but i dont know! i know people that had everything insulated and still had problems with tanks freezing etc. i'm sure it gets in the same way as the cold gets in.

DoneDL

Cheapest option is a fan heater which insurance companies are suggesting are set to 4 degrees C. Our sparks pointed out that they should checked every year and cleaned.

MicktheMan

DublinDilbert wrote: »

If your tanks + pipes are all properly lagged / covered, how does the heat get from the lamp into them?

Heat always flows from warmer (water in pipe) to cooler (attic space).
Insulation slows down this "flow"

By increasing the temperature of the attic space above that of the water in the pipe you will get heat flow back through the insulation to the water in the pipe.

dialer

While exchanging a single rad 400x400 downstairs for a larger double 500x500, i made a small room around my tank with 4x2 inch wood as stud and insulated around it. . Our attic is completely free of rafters and the tank sits right under the roof toward the eve's. Last year there was ice forming so i have installed the small rad with a stop lever in the hot press for when i need it to come on with the central heating.
Figure this will keep temperatures up nicely.