HELP!! newbie beekeeper!

muckyhands

I am a newbie to beekeeping and was hoping to get some advice. I have a site to keep my bees on organised and hope to get my first colony's next year- hopefully 2 colonys to begin with.

At the moment I am trying to decide what the best type of hive to get is and was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction.

I have been looking at a Cedar National hive from irishbeehives.com in Kerry that has the option of a larger 14 by 12 brood box. So I have a couple of questions:

1. Am I making the right choice by getting the National? I know each type has their pros/ cons but I think the national is most common in my area-but not sure.

2. If I got the larger 14 by 12 brood box could I end up with problems sourcing a nucleus hive because it isn' t the standard size brood box? Should I stick with the standard size brood box for now and keep them on 'brood and a half' or is the larger brood box widely used?

3. Has anyone ever purchased a hive from irishbeehives.com in Kerry and what did you think of them?

I live in Dublin and will be joining the local association as soon as the next meeting takes place and was hoping there may be other more experienced beekeepers online that may be able to help/ advise?

I would really be grateful if anyone can help. Thanks.:)

ijooc

The National hive is the most popular in Ireland. However, it can sometimes be easier to get a commercial Nuc as there is less demand for them.

Unless you have identified a source for your Nuc next year, I would be slow to buy any hives, until you have secured a Nuc. Then, you'll know exactly what hive to purchase.

Personally, I have commercial hives for the simple reason that the first 2 hives I got were commercial and I've stuck with them. However, the brood chambers can be quiet heavy when full with stores.

Ophiopogon

Hey mucky,I saw this and thought of you was gonna post it on your thread in gardening but just saw this thread. I am hoping to go although will prob just get jealous of everyone with their hives.

Joe the Plumber

A local beekeeper has about 8 hives in my place, not sure of the makes but he had a major problem with hives collapsing.(as in all the bees dying overnight)

After a long time he figured out that by putting kingspan insulation around the outsides of the hives it stopped this mysterious problem.

Not because of its insulation properties but because of its ability to act as a barrier to radio waves.

My advice would be to look into that and try and get hives with this built into to them.

trevor_matode

Hi Mucky,
welcome to the extremely rewarding and quite costly hobby of beekeeping.
I see you have read a lot about brood and a half etc. You might consider that as an option later on.

For now, however, I would strongly recommend that you complete the Preliminary course and exam of the FIBKA to give yourself the best chance.


I wouldn't buy any hive hardware until you are promised bees and you know you want to keep them. There is no rush.

Unless you make complicating arrangements to the contrary, it is highly likely that any nucleus of bees that you might get through your local FIBKA association will be on say 5 frames.
These 5 frames will be of a particular dimension - that will fit into a standard national brood box.

So when the time comes I imagine that you will start with a timber National Hive. I.e. a Floor (with an Entrance Block), a Brood Box, a Crown Board and a Roof.

Please be aware that there is plenty of alternative medicine/voodoo/chinese whispers around beekeeping in Ireland. Not everyone agrees with the FIBKA. But you can be sure that the content of the course and the exam (which you should sit) is correct.

You can look at Thornes website for Bees-on-a-budget flatpack hives as a reference point. Or your man in Trim/Ballivor somewhere out there in Meath: http://www.beehivesupplies.ie/

Now, let's look at the kingspan. I haven't heard that one before...
On the issue of radio waves (and I think we're talking about non-ionizing radiation here in one of the broadcast spectra or in the mobile comms bands), II wouldn't be too concerned unless your apiary site is up the top of Three-Rock.

I should add on Joe's post, it seems to me that radio waves might not care about the kingspan. Any effect on radio waves would likely be from a foil backing. I would put expanded polystyrene foam in the roof during winter myself (the bottom "floor" of my hives is a fine mesh).

Any worry you might have about radio waves must be in the area of compromising the bees' ability to navigate home to the hive. Putting the hive (the destination) itself in a full Faraday cage wouldn't help in that regard!

Good luck with it,
Trev.

allium

The guy you are looking for (Paul O'Sullivan) is in Trim: http://www.beesupplies.ie/
I would deal with him.

I believe that he made a a split (you'll get into the beekeeping jokes, trust me) from the Ballivor-based Ranko http://www.beehivesupplies.ie/ to form a new colony but I'm open to correction on that.

Also on radiation, I have seen Rooskey beekeeping and they used to be under a big phone mast - no problem whatsoever.

I think you will be very lucky to get 2 nucs without paying commercial prices. (The aforementioned Thornes sell out @£;235 for a 6-frame nuc collection-only in England)

As the previous poster said, it is a very costly hobby.

I would finish by saying that bees are livestock and should be thought of as such.

sean_0

A couple of thoughts:

Getting hold of bees is not easy. Keeping them alive is getting harder and established beekeepers have fewer colonies to sell than they used to. You need to make contact with a beekeepers association and get to know people, otherwise you may fail to get any bees next year.

With that in mind, it's probably best to wait until you have made contact with someone, or been promised some bees before you decide which hive to go with. In the short term, it's best to just copy whatever the person selling the bees has - National or Commercial. They both have advantages and disadvantages, you can make up your mind which way to go a little farther down the line. I don't know of any beekeepers myself using 14x12s in Ireland, they are more popular in the UK I think.

Personally I wouldn't bother with Cedar. I've got hives made from deal which are over 20 years old and in perfect nick, you just need to treat the timber properly to start with.

Good luck with it!

muckyhands

ijooc wrote: »

The National hive is the most popular in Ireland. However, it can sometimes be easier to get a commercial Nuc as there is less demand for them.

Unless you have identified a source for your Nuc next year, I would be slow to buy any hives, until you have secured a Nuc. Then, you'll know exactly what hive to purchase.

Personally, I have commercial hives for the simple reason that the first 2 hives I got were commercial and I've stuck with them. However, the brood chambers can be quiet heavy when full with stores.

Thanks very much, makes a lot of sense.:)

muckyhands

Ophiopogon wrote: »

Hey mucky,I saw this and thought of you was gonna post it on your thread in gardening but just saw this thread. I am hoping to go although will prob just get jealous of everyone with their hives.

Thanks Ophiopogon. Definitely want to go to that.:)

muckyhands

sean_0 wrote: »

A couple of thoughts:

Getting hold of bees is not easy. Keeping them alive is getting harder and established beekeepers have fewer colonies to sell than they used to. You need to make contact with a beekeepers association and get to know people, otherwise you may fail to get any bees next year.

With that in mind, it's probably best to wait until you have made contact with someone, or been promised some bees before you decide which hive to go with. In the short term, it's best to just copy whatever the person selling the bees has - National or Commercial. They both have advantages and disadvantages, you can make up your mind which way to go a little farther down the line. I don't know of any beekeepers myself using 14x12s in Ireland, they are more popular in the UK I think.

Personally I wouldn't bother with Cedar. I've got hives made from deal which are over 20 years old and in perfect nick, you just need to treat the timber properly to start with.

Good luck with it!

I am in Dublin so joining CDBKA. Hopefully I will be able to get a nuc through the association but I will have to see how it goes I guess.

It makes sense to know what nuc I can get before I start getting the hives. Thanks for that.:)

With regard the 14 by 12 brood box I know it makes sense to have a larger brood area but I was worried/ realised I may have trouble sourcing a nuc if I got the larger brood box- I am very very new to this! It seems its hard enough to get started.

Can I ask what kind of preservative do you use on your hives?

muckyhands

trevor_matode wrote: »

Hi Mucky,
welcome to the extremely rewarding and quite costly hobby of beekeeping.
I see you have read a lot about brood and a half etc. You might consider that as an option later on.

For now, however, I would strongly recommend that you complete the Preliminary course and exam of the FIBKA to give yourself the best chance.


I wouldn't buy any hive hardware until you are promised bees and you know you want to keep them. There is no rush.

Unless you make complicating arrangements to the contrary, it is highly likely that any nucleus of bees that you might get through your local FIBKA association will be on say 5 frames.
These 5 frames will be of a particular dimension - that will fit into a standard national brood box.

So when the time comes I imagine that you will start with a timber National Hive. I.e. a Floor (with an Entrance Block), a Brood Box, a Crown Board and a Roof.

Please be aware that there is plenty of alternative medicine/voodoo/chinese whispers around beekeeping in Ireland. Not everyone agrees with the FIBKA. But you can be sure that the content of the course and the exam (which you should sit) is correct.

You can look at Thornes website for Bees-on-a-budget flatpack hives as a reference point. Or your man in Trim/Ballivor somewhere out there in Meath: http://www.beehivesupplies.ie/

Now, let's look at the kingspan. I haven't heard that one before...
On the issue of radio waves (and I think we're talking about non-ionizing radiation here in one of the broadcast spectra or in the mobile comms bands), II wouldn't be too concerned unless your apiary site is up the top of Three-Rock.

I should add on Joe's post, it seems to me that radio waves might not care about the kingspan. Any effect on radio waves would likely be from a foil backing. I would put expanded polystyrene foam in the roof during winter myself (the bottom "floor" of my hives is a fine mesh).

Any worry you might have about radio waves must be in the area of compromising the bees' ability to navigate home to the hive. Putting the hive (the destination) itself in a full Faraday cage wouldn't help in that regard!

Good luck with it,
Trev.

I took the beginners course with my local association and plan on going to Gormanstown next year to sit the preliminary exam.

I definitely want to keep bees but 'only fools rush in' as they say!

Thanks for the advice.:)

muckyhands

Joe the Plumber wrote: »

A local beekeeper has about 8 hives in my place, not sure of the makes but he had a major problem with hives collapsing.(as in all the bees dying overnight)

After a long time he figured out that by putting kingspan insulation around the outsides of the hives it stopped this mysterious problem.

Not because of its insulation properties but because of its ability to act as a barrier to radio waves.

My advice would be to look into that and try and get hives with this built into to them.

Thanks Joe the Plumber- I know a little but not enough to comment on colony collapse disorder but I am glad to hear that the kingspan has solved the problem whatever it was.:)

muckyhands

allium wrote: »

The guy you are looking for (Paul O'Sullivan) is in Trim: http://www.beesupplies.ie/
I would deal with him.

I believe that he made a a split (you'll get into the beekeeping jokes, trust me) from the Ballivor-based Ranko http://www.beehivesupplies.ie/ to form a new colony but I'm open to correction on that.

Also on radiation, I have seen Rooskey beekeeping and they used to be under a big phone mast - no problem whatsoever.

I think you will be very lucky to get 2 nucs without paying commercial prices. (The aforementioned Thornes sell out @£;235 for a 6-frame nuc collection-only in England)

As the previous poster said, it is a very costly hobby.

I would finish by saying that bees are livestock and should be thought of as such.

Thanks for that...

Sorry but I just have to ask....

What exactly do you mean when you say this?

allium

Well just that they are considered livestock in Ireland at least. You have to keep them in good health, take care of them. Some people take nucs and won't treat for varroa, for example.

Can I add a suggestion, seeing as you are keen on starting with 2 colonies AND have proved by doing the course (and soon the exam) that you are pretty serious about this?

Would you maybe be confident enough to consider a bait hive? If you are in Dublin there are swarms being let off left right and centre every year.
You could use one of you Nationals as a bait hive while you wait for nucs - probably the simplest?

On the exam, can I strongly recommend the book Beekeeping Study Notes: BASIC Cetificate, SBKA Basic Beemaster Certificate, FIBKA Preliminary Certificate (Paperback) if you don't have it already.

You will get it on abebooks.com or amazon.co.uk.

Good luck with the bees.

muckyhands

allium wrote: »

Well just that they are considered livestock in Ireland at least. You have to keep them in good health, take care of them. Some people take nucs and won't treat for varroa, for example.

Can I add a suggestion, seeing as you are keen on starting with 2 colonies AND have proved by doing the course (and soon the exam) that you are pretty serious about this?

Would you maybe be confident enough to consider a bait hive? If you are in Dublin there are swarms being let off left right and centre every year.
You could use one of you Nationals as a bait hive while you wait for nucs - probably the simplest?

On the exam, can I strongly recommend the book Beekeeping Study Notes: BASIC Cetificate, SBKA Basic Beemaster Certificate, FIBKA Preliminary Certificate (Paperback) if you don't have it already.

You will get it on abebooks.com or amazon.co.uk.

Good luck with the bees.

Thanks very much for that Allium.:) I don' t have it yet but I will defo get it.

A couple of years ago I had a colony move into our shed. At the time I wasn' t in any position to collect them! A bait hive sounds like a good idea but the only thing is you don' t know what the bees are like- temperament etc...

Having said that the ones in the shed were very gentle bees.

adopt a bee hive

Yes I am going to the show next week should be good. We make our own hives out of red deal ceder is too dear and we sell some as well. Most of the nucs are on national frames. If you are buying hives try and buy Irish hives for Irish bees. I bought a hive from your man in Kerry and from Paul both good hives.

Cul a cnoic

Hi, I have 2 national hives and have recently purchased Open Mesh Floors (varroa floors) for the hives. Am I too late in the year to replace the old standard floor with the new mesh floors? Thanks

muckyhands

Cul a cnoic wrote: »

Hi, I have 2 national hives and have recently purchased Open Mesh Floors (varroa floors) for the hives. Am I too late in the year to replace the old standard floor with the new mesh floors? Thanks

If we get some good weather and the temperature is at least 15c it should be ok.

Try and do it as quickly as you can.:)

Can I check something with you- I am assembling Hoffman frames at the moment and I presume the longer pieces of wire in the foundation go up to the top bar and are folded against the wood, then the strip of wood replaced on top of the foundation and nailed on at an angle through where the wire is behind it?

Thanks.:)

Cul a cnoic

muckyhands wrote: »

If we get some good weather and the temperature is at least 15c it should be ok.

Try and do it as quickly as you can.:)

Can I check something with you- I am assembling Hoffman frames at the moment and I presume the longer pieces of wire in the foundation go up to the top bar and are folded against the wood, then the strip of wood replaced on top of the foundation and nailed on at an angle through where the wire is behind it?

Thanks.:)

Thanks Mucky for the reply. 15 degrees will be a wait here in NW Donegal, sunny all morning but temps not near 11 degrees yet. As I won't be "opening" the hive, rather taking the hive off the flat bottom floor and putting it onto the open mesh floor, I don't think the temps should be an issue. Sunny and dry should suffice.

What I am thinking is, as the bees are ready for winter, would I be causing too much disturbance with the colony if I was to change the floor to open mesh at this quiet time of year. Or should I wait until the springtime when there is more of a buzz around the hive?

Regarding the frames, have a look at this site from "work with nature" in Cork, he has some fantastic videos posted about beekeeping and this one shows how to assemble the frames. http://www.youtube.com/user/workwithnature#p/u/32/AWpvmMM9Bx0
I do it a little different, I would remove the foundation wedge holder from the top bar (largest timber) before I assemble, keeping this on the workbench facing me. Then put on the side bars left and right, making sure that the wax grooves are facing in and lined up correctly. I find it easier to only place one of the two bottom bars (the narrowest parts, about the same size as the wedge) and leave the one that would go on the same side as the wedge off until later.

Guide the foundation (wax) on the side bars with the longer wire on the top bar side and bend the wire at 90 degrees to go under the wedge. Now put on the wedge holding the foundation in place as the wire is held between the wedge and the top bar. Then place the other bottom bar carefully, not kinking the foundation or damaging it and nail together. Again doing it and writing the procedure are two different things but you will get the hang of it after the first few are done.........

Best of luck with the hives, I was very happy with mine this year, had a very nice harvest a few weeks back.

Anyone at the Honey Show today, would love to have gone buts its over 4 hours for me to get there...

muckyhands

Cul a cnoic wrote: »

Thanks Mucky for the reply. 15 degrees will be a wait here in NW Donegal, sunny all morning but temps not near 11 degrees yet. As I won't be "opening" the hive, rather taking the hive off the flat bottom floor and putting it onto the open mesh floor, I don't think the temps should be an issue. Sunny and dry should suffice.

What I am thinking is, as the bees are ready for winter, would I be causing too much disturbance with the colony if I was to change the floor to open mesh at this quiet time of year. Or should I wait until the springtime when there is more of a buzz around the hive?

Regarding the frames, have a look at this site from "work with nature" in Cork, he has some fantastic videos posted about beekeeping and this one shows how to assemble the frames. http://www.youtube.com/user/workwithnature#p/u/32/AWpvmMM9Bx0
I do it a little different, I would remove the foundation wedge holder from the top bar (largest timber) before I assemble, keeping this on the workbench facing me. Then put on the side bars left and right, making sure that the wax grooves are facing in and lined up correctly. I find it easier to only place one of the two bottom bars (the narrowest parts, about the same size as the wedge) and leave the one that would go on the same side as the wedge off until later.

Guide the foundation (wax) on the side bars with the longer wire on the top bar side and bend the wire at 90 degrees to go under the wedge. Now put on the wedge holding the foundation in place as the wire is held between the wedge and the top bar. Then place the other bottom bar carefully, not kinking the foundation or damaging it and nail together. Again doing it and writing the procedure are two different things but you will get the hang of it after the first few are done.........

Best of luck with the hives, I was very happy with mine this year, had a very nice harvest a few weeks back.

Anyone at the Honey Show today, would love to have gone buts its over 4 hours for me to get there...

Thanks very much, the way you wrote that about the frames was perfect, I did finally get the hang of it! I left out the foundation for the moment so it will be fresher for the bees when I get them and wont get damaged.

I totally forgot the honeyshow, really wanted to go.

Re the floors, if they are in their winter cluster I would say wait til the spring. It would do more harm than good to disturb them.:)

Heres some pics, the hive arrived on Friday.

Cul a cnoic

muckyhands wrote: »

Heres some pics, the hive arrived on Friday.

looking good, nearly ready for the bees.

Mrs Farmer

Having done the bee-keeping course last year, I was hesitating about getting a hive, then a friend arrived with a swarm for me and threw me in the deep end. It was a massive learning curve, and hands-on is the best way to learn and enjoy this amazing hobby. It's not cheap, but hopefully in time the honey crop will cover the costs, and I like to think I am doing my bit to save our native bees from extinction. I have just assembled my 3rd hive and am still managing to avoid having ever been stung.