New York Bar Exams

SMcDDB

I have a very important question to ask. It relates to my foreign evaluation for eligibility to sit the New York Bar exams.

I was under the impression that my BCL Degree and my LLM, Masters in Law would be enough to comply with the eligibility requirements. However I have received an email from the Law Examiners saying that they need,

"1. Proof of fulfillment of the educational requirements for admission to the practice of law in the foreign country. You must submit proof of what the educational requirements for admission to practice law in your country are and proof that you have fulfilled the requirements.

A. If admitted to practice law in a foreign country, attach a copy of your admission certificate, OR
B. If not admitted to practice law in a foreign country, submit proof of the educational requirements for admission to practice law in your county and proof that you have fulfilled these requirements."

So is it now the case that to sit the New York Bar, you have to have passed all 8 FE1's or even worse, that you have to already be qualified as a Solicitor in Ireland?

Many thanks for your answers in advance,
SMcDDB

P.S. I tried calling New York to find out more information but the lady who answered was not very helpful at all.

crystalmice

Well as of last year you certainly did not need to have anything more than a BCL to be eligible, I doubt it has changed since then. The wording may seem misleading but afaik they dont require anything more than a law degree.

whydoibother?

Print off the list of approved law degrees from the Kings Inns website, highlight yours and send them that.

SMcDDB

Thank You both for your replies.

I will print off that list, highlight it and send it to them along with anything else I can get from UCD or Trinity.

There was an amendment in May 2011 to the eligibility requirements although I have read it over and over again and I can't see a huge change in the requirements. Also, I sent in my application last December 2010 so I had it in before the amendment was enforced.

Seems as if they might be trying to clamp down on foreign applicants being approved. I guess I don't blame them, so many people sit it each year, from the US and elsewhere.

Thanks again.

whydoibother?

Yes, I think your right about them wanting to discourage foreigners. They tripled the fees recently for foreign-trained applicants only. The others still pay the same.

Anyway, showing them your degree was approved by KI was acceptable to them a couple of years ago, so hopefully it will still work.

Good luck.

cfarrell1980

Yep - printing the list from Kings Inns and highlighting yours works. The amendments in May 2011 don't affect this (they do affect how you apply though).

Johnno-

It's a very difficult question to answer.

I applied late August and have not heard back from them as to whether i am elligible. I am hoping it is due to the fact UCC & The Law Society took their sweet time organising the particulars and that they weren't received until the 1st week of September. I set up the bole id and asked UCC to send my transcripts and parchments for my BCL & LLB also.

Their wording is incredibly difficult to decipher. I will be a qualified solicitor next month and i am seriously sweating it myself as to whether i am elligible. When i applied, i had not received results from PPC2 exams and was not sure how the letter from the Law Society should be worded.

I talked to someone from the Friary law course and she was certain that even with the new process, you still only needed an approved law degree.

If the matter still has not been resolved i can forward a draft letter i sent to the law society addressing how they should write their letter to the new york state bar so as to indicate that i have met their requirements.

Guinness11

Hey I am currently in final year and I am thinking about doing the NYB exams in February 2013.

I have heard of people who have done the course through friary law(One got the exam the other didn't)
I can see that it can be studied through online courses. Just wondering which one is the best? And if anyone has used them or knows someone who has what their experience of it was? /Did they pass the exam?
My own situation would be that I don' really think I could afford to study the Friary Law course.
How much study is needed? 8 hours every day for 2-3 months? Intense! Did anyone have a job or other commitments alongside this?

Also anyone who has been through it what are the prospects of getting a job over in NYC as in are their many success stories?

Also wondering about is it true that you have to stay in NYC and work for a year after? What if a job cannot be found?

Also wondering can it be transferred back to work in Ireland or will the FE1s have to be sat?

Sorry about all the questions if anyone has any information/advice I would greatly appreciate it
Thanks

Guinness11

Wondering if anyone is able to answer some of my questions if they have the time

Guinness11 wrote: »

Hey I am currently in final year and I am thinking about doing the NYB exams in February 2013.

I have heard of people who have done the course through friary law(One got the exam the other didn't)
I can see that it can be studied through online courses. Just wondering which one is the best? And if anyone has used them or knows someone who has what their experience of it was? /Did they pass the exam?
My own situation would be that I don' really think I could afford to study the Friary Law course.
How much study is needed? 8 hours every day for 2-3 months? Intense! Did anyone have a job or other commitments alongside this?

Also anyone who has been through it what are the prospects of getting a job over in NYC as in are their many success stories?

Also wondering about is it true that you have to stay in NYC and work for a year after? What if a job cannot be found?

Also wondering can it be transferred back to work in Ireland or will the FE1s have to be sat?

Sorry about all the questions if anyone has any information/advice I would greatly appreciate it
Thanks

rainbow2012

Hi there,

I see you are interetsed in taking the bar. First thing I could say to you is, don't underestimate it. Not to scare you but it is completely different from any other Irish exam situation.

With Regard to the Friary Law course, there is no guarantee that you will pass by doing it,but if you are the type of person who needs structure and to attend lectures then I would try and beg steal or borrow to either get on this course or try to source the Bar Bri materials which is provided. These really are vital. Other online tutorials can be good but the Bar Bri practice questions are more realistic in comparison to the real thing. The only thing is these are not openly available in Ireland - Friary Law is the only provider with the licence for the books. The only other place you might find them is ebay.

In relation to your question about the year working abroad, yes you do HAVE to work in the state of New York for a year before you will be able to return home to Ireland and sit the conversion exam to practice here. With regard to work opportunities in NY the situation is quite similar to here unfortunately, you will most likely have to take an unpaid internship for the year which will prove financially difficult unless you have quite a bit saved.

I don't mean to make it sound all doom and gloom but I am now attempting the bar for the third time and seriously underestimated it when I took it on first. There was a myth that it would be a short cut to practice here at home but that is no longer the case. I first sat the exam in July 2010 and and now taking it again this July hoping to pass this time around!! I didn't take the friary law course, I bought a studygroup bar review course online - which wasn't much good, and studied at home myself. The second time I sat the exam I was in the middle of doing an LLM so didn't dedicate enough time to study. I have since bought Bar Bri and Kaplan books online and know what needs to be done now...

From that point of view, what I can advise for you taking on this task first time and being completely unfamiliar with the material is 6 months study. 2-3 months would be fine if you were an american student familiar with the american law but there is a vast amount to cover. The main thing you will need to focus on is the multiple choice questions. Do as many of these as you can!!

I hope this is of some help to you and I haven't scared you off! It will be worth it in the end, but I would just advise you to consider your options. If your ultimate goal is to be a solicitor here in Ireland then it may well take the same amount of time and money to just go down the Fe 1 route.

Best of Luck!

cfarrell1980

The most important part about the exam is strategy. You can rely on Friary, BarBri or any other commercial course for strategy or you can develop your own, based on what was on the exam before. This is what I did - I developed a strategy loosely based on Joe Separac's advice - and stuck to it. I didn't take BarBri or Kaplan, but I did get books over Ebay. Most important for me were the lectures. I have them as MP3 and basically, I listened to them day in, day out from September 2010 until July 2011. Any time I was jogging, in the car, or walking to work, I listened to lectures. The BarBri lectures are actually quite lively. There are lecturers like Charles Whitebread, Paula Francese, David Epstein and a guy who does torts, who are actually quite funny to listen to.

For me, the single most important part was the MBE (Multistate Bar Exam). As a graduate in Ireland, I was not familiar with multiple choice - and certainly not with the tricks that the MBE examiners use. You can know the law and still not pick the right answer. The good thing is, there are plenty of courses and material to get you up to speed on the MBE. Aim to score as high as possible on it. I took Adaptibar and did all BarBri, Kaplan (PMBR) and NCBEX questions I could find. It paid off and I got a 168 scaled MBE score in July. I think that this is why I passed.

Apropos the New York section, Barbri also does lectures aimed specifically at the New York section. For some subjects, New York law is quite like the Multistate but there are also topics like Domestic Relations that are New York specific. What I did to prepare for the New York section was I got an old (2006) BarBri workbook. They have essay questions with model answers in there. In June and July I wrote about 5 essays a day, aiming to spot issues and make damn sure I kept myself to about 40 minutes an essay.

So, it is possible to do this exam yourself - you need to pick a strategy and stick to it. With respect to study time, I was working full time until the end of May 2011. For June and July I was on parental leave from work - this allowed me to put in more time.

Last tips - fly to New York early to avoid being jetlagged. Get a good pen and practise with it beforehand.

Good luck!

Guinness11

Thanks for the replies, really helpful!

How are you getting on after completing the exam? Did you find many opportunities available for you? /What are other people you know doing?

I am thinking of possibly studying for the February 2013 exams - And maybe going over to NYC on a year long working visa with hope to get work in the legal area, currently researching this as to whether it will be viable. I have looked into going with the Irish immigration centre in Boston - does anyone have any experiences with them?

Thanks

slum dog

wow friary law sure sounds swell. i might give friary law a ring first thing in the morning.

Mshellster

Hey all,

I'm also thinking of having a go at the NY Bar exam, not sure when exactly, possibly this July or next Feb depending on if I can sort the funds to finance it. In relation to study materials, I was wondering how recent they should to be? Would it be ok to be using books from 2008/2009 or would they be too old and missing important stuff? I wasn't sure if the law changes loads from year to year to the extent that you'd be better off having the most recent stuff particularly being foreign students.

Also, would anyone have any thoughts or feedback on the difference between the types of courses/materials that involve just studying straight from books and those that use video lectures/mp3 downloads? If you were just using books would you need to be supplementing that with listening to lectures or are books alone sufficient?

Thanks

cat_xx

Went to a Friary Presentation in Galway today, They are doing the college rounds at the moment. He said if you have any questions just ring!

Mshellster

cat_xx wrote: »

Went to a Friary Presentation in Galway today, They are doing the college rounds at the moment. He said if you have any questions just ring!

Cool thanks for the heads up. I'm thinking though would he not just be giving out info on Friary and kind of selling that side of things (I'm sure Friary is grand and all it's just way out of my price range unfortunately). As in I doubt he'd have loads of info on the best ways to go about it if you don't do Friary and all the other cheap resources available. I wouldn't expect him to either or to be giving out that kind of advice to be fair! Just mostly trying to figure out how uptodate the books/mp3s etc. need to be and if there's a major difference between them?

cat_xx

Yeah he really sold Friary basically saying you are wasting your time with any other course provider! He said something about how 2 candidates were deemed ineligible a few weeks before the exams and how they got it all sorted because they are great etc he also mentioned that another course provider had to stop because this problem kept happening! Definitely shop around but id say Friary are the best.

Mshellster

I think my shopping around will extend to getting second hand books or mp3 lecture materials!

If anyone happens to know how up-to-date second hand books need to be to make giving the exam a go worthwhile that would be great, thanks.

kronsington

basic question guys- do you have to have a law degree to sit these exams? i qualify as solicitor in the near future and dont have law degree. being qualified but not having law degree is a stumbling block across the board

energiserbunny

Has anyone any advice on how one could lay their paws on the Barbri lecture MP3's?? As in where to buy them, I am planning to take the Feb 2013 sitting. I took them in July 2010...and I seriously under-estimated the work involved...my score was was not far off passing but the experience is traumatizing without good preparation. I used to Micro Mash course, while it was comprehensive- it didn't join the dots in some areas - as a certain amount of explanatory detail was missing for the non-American law graduate. This time i will use my Micro Mash materials and Barbri i have procured off ebay but need some advice on getting the MP3 lectures? All advice appreciated!

luckyluke1

cfarrell1980 wrote: »

Yep - printing the list from Kings Inns and highlighting yours works. The amendments in May 2011 don't affect this (they do affect how you apply though).

just wondering how long it took from you applying for foreign educated eligibility to get a reply from them.eg for the july exam when would you want to apply for eligibility purposes?.thanks

vg88

My friends just finished their BCL and they are already studying for the exam as they were informed that's all they need

luckyluke1

moloner4 wrote: »

My friends just finished their BCL and they are already studying for the exam as they were informed that's all they need

Sound but how long before the bar exam should you apply for eligibility .Is it 6 months or something like that.Wish your buddies luck.thanks

bxy5

luckyluke1 wrote: »

Sound but how long before the bar exam should you apply for eligibility .Is it 6 months or something like that.Wish your buddies luck.thanks

Hey, can you tell me exactly what you provided for "Proof of fulfilment of the educational requirements for admission to the practice of law in the foreign country"... did you get a letter from Kings or LSI or your university?

luckyluke1

bxy5 wrote: »

Hey, can you tell me exactly what you provided for "Proof of fulfilment of the educational requirements for admission to the practice of law in the foreign country"... did you get a letter from Kings or LSI or your university?

I’m doing it at the moment.I think you need a letter from King’s Inns,at least that’s what I’m doing.

luckyluke1

bxy5 wrote: »

Hey, can you tell me exactly what you provided for "Proof of fulfilment of the educational requirements for admission to the practice of law in the foreign country"... did you get a letter from Kings or LSI or your university?

I’m doing it at the moment.I think you need a letter from King’s Inns,at least that’s what I’m doing.

luckyluke1

bxy5 wrote: »

Hey, can you tell me exactly what you provided for "Proof of fulfilment of the educational requirements for admission to the practice of law in the foreign country"... did you get a letter from Kings or LSI or your university?

Just wondering what exactly are you sending.do you have to send a copy of your degree parchment as well.thanks

bxy5

ya, i'm having my university send a certified/stamped copy of my parchment as well as my transcript. rather give too much than too little to avoid any delays.

luckyluke1

bxy5 wrote: »

ya, i'm having my university send a certified/stamped copy of my parchment as well as my transcript. rather give too much than too little to avoid any delays.

Definitely.What Bar review course are you taking ?