Golf Scorecards - Non GUI players as markers

knucklefader

Interesting scenario a few weeks ago at my club.

A non-GUI player marked and signed the card of a low handicapper who eventually had the winning score 66 nett in our Monthly Medal competition but was then disqualified by the Competition Committee as adjudged that only persons holding GUI handicaps can sign a scorecard in our Club competitions.

Can anyone tell me the rules on this - surely the GUI have specified that only GUI markers can sign players' scores in Club/GUI competitions and that lads cannot just bring their family of friends along to certify scores in official Club competitions?

Jul3s

knucklefader wrote: »

Interesting scenario a few weeks ago at my club.

A non-GUI player marked and signed the card of a low handicapper who eventually had the winning score 66 nett in our Monthly Medal competition but was then disqualified by the Competition Committee as adjudged that only persons holding GUI handicaps can sign a scorecard in our Club competitions.

Can anyone tell me the rules on this - surely the GUI have specified that only GUI markers can sign players' scores in Club/GUI competitions and that lads cannot just bring their family of friends along to certify scores in official Club competitions?

I'm sorry but this scenario isn't that interesting at all, the alledged "low" handicapper should have known better, and he should not only be disqualified but should be banned for a year for been so stupid.

golfnut1

Ha ha don't sugar coat it jul3s just tell it straight!!!

knucklefader

Thanks lads but can anyone relate where exactly the rule is that states the marker in a GUI competition has got to be a GUI player?

bigguy086

any truth in the rumour the guy who marked his card was andreas bocelli!

sodbuster77

knucklefader wrote: »

Interesting scenario a few weeks ago at my club.

A non-GUI player marked and signed the card of a low handicapper who eventually had the winning score 66 nett in our Monthly Medal competition but was then disqualified by the Competition Committee as adjudged that only persons holding GUI handicaps can sign a scorecard in our Club competitions.

Can anyone tell me the rules on this - surely the GUI have specified that only GUI markers can sign players' scores in Club/GUI competitions and that lads cannot just bring their family of friends along to certify scores in official Club competitions?

Why was there a non registered player playing in the Medal in the first place?

knucklefader

Last group out in the medal is allowed to take on a green fee ... unable to find the rule anywhere that disallows a non GUI sign a card in a club or open competition.

golfnut1

knucklefader wrote: »

Thanks lads but can anyone relate where exactly the rule is that states the marker in a GUI competition has got to be a GUI player?

I'm only guessing here but
If it's a GUI comp then presumably to play in it you have to be a GUI member (member of a GUI affiliated club with valid GUI handicap).
Players can't mark there own card they have to exchange cards.
So what I'm getting at if a non GUI player doesn't qualify to play in the event does it not stand to reason he doesn't qualify to mark a card??

sodbuster77

I don't think there is an exact rule on it. Because the marker was not a competitor, the lad who shot the 66 technically didn't return a score because no one marked his card.

knucklefader

A marker doesn't need to be a competitor to mark and sign a competitor's card ... the question still is whether he needs to hold a GUI handicap to sign for a person's score?

k.p.h

Whats the story with ILGU members and GUI members marking each others cards ..? Lets say its the same day but different competitions ..? Also whats the story with non competitors but GUi members marking a competitors card ..?

golfnut1

Well i don't know for sure...but it just seems logical to me if a player doesn't qualify to play in the comp he doesn't qualify to mark a card.
He is not a fellow competitor. Don't you swap your card with a fellow competitor??

knucklefader

We always understood that competitors and markers in GUI/ILGU comps had to be either GUI or ILGU handicappers/members.
The original case in question here has sent us looking for the rule whereby that is actually set down in stone but not yet found by anyone.

golfnut1

k.p.h wrote: »

Whats the story with ILGU members and GUI members marking each others cards ..? Lets say its the same day but different competitions ..? Also whats the story with non competitors but GUI members marking a competitors card ..?

Regarding ILGU and GUI members marking each others cards.
Presumably they are a co-sanctioned even/events

cackhanded

As far as the R&A rules are concerned, a marker is someone who is appointed by the committee. So it is up to the club to decide who they allow to mark a card. Most clubs (AFAIK) define a marker as someone who is "acceptable to the committee" This is generally considered a person with an official GUI handicap, but there is a lot of ambiguity around who can be "acceptable".

DoctaDee

cackhanded wrote: »

As far as the R&A rules are concerned, a marker is someone who is appointed by the committee. So it is up to the club to decide who they allow to mark a card. Most clubs (AFAIK) define a marker as someone who is "acceptable to the committee" This is generally considered a person with an official GUI handicap, but there is a lot of ambiguity around who can be "acceptable".

Completely agree ... you don't have to be a competitor to mark card ... but probably should be :rolleyes: ... you just have to look at Euro/PGA Tour when a player goes out as a single .. he either can take a marker (some low handicap local I assume) or if he refuses the marker they send out a non-playing person to keep his score

Sandwlch

USGA/R&A Decision.
6-6a/1 Lone Competitor Appoints Own Marker

Q. In a stroke-play competition, a lone competitor had no marker. No member of the Committee was present to appoint one. So the competitor played with two players playing a friendly game, and one of them served as his marker. Should the Committee accept the card?

A. Yes. Since the Committee failed to provide a marker, the Committee should give retrospective authority to the player who acted as the competitor's marker.


I have never come across a club with competition rules specifying who may or may not mark and sign a card. In the absence of such rule, the above applies.

DoctaDee

Sandwlch wrote: »

USGA/R&A Decision.
6-6a/1 Lone Competitor Appoints Own Marker

Q. In a stroke-play competition, a lone competitor had no marker. No member of the Committee was present to appoint one. So the competitor played with two players playing a friendly game, and one of them served as his marker. Should the Committee accept the card?

A. Yes. Since the Committee failed to provide a marker, the Committee should give retrospective authority to the player who acted as the competitor's marker.


I have never come across a club with competition rules specifying who may or may not mark and sign a card. In the absence of such rule, the above applies.

Nice find well done ...

golfnut1

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules%20and%20Amateur%20Status/Rules%20of%20Golf.aspx#/rules/?ruleNum=6&subRuleNum=6&decisionId=7DEB4355-F4BB-4179-88E6-6736194E609A

What do you make of this? Hold your mouse over "marker"
Does he have to be a fellow competitor??

Sandwlch

See the decision above. Since most competitions played by most of us club golfers is done so with with no markers appointed by a competitions committee, the decision applies. And so makes the round legit. Committees could specify that markers must be in the competition, have a GUI/ILGU handicap, or be able to recite the complete works of Shakespeare. But they dont do anything. So anything goes. If they have not specified beforehand, they cannot do so retrospectively as decided in 6-6a/1

Myksyk

golfnut1 wrote: »

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules%20and%20Amateur%20Status/Rules%20of%20Golf.aspx#/rules/?ruleNum=6&subRuleNum=6&decisionId=7DEB4355-F4BB-4179-88E6-6736194E609A

What do you make of this? Hold your mouse over "marker"
Does he have to be a fellow competitor??

No. A marker 'may' be a fellow competitor but outside of that if he is acceptable to the committee that's all that matters. I think this allows the wiggle room for the committee to accept (for argument sake) even a non-golfer as a marker, if they so deemed.

golfnut1

I just seems strange that they would put in "He may be a fellow competitor" if he doesn't have to be.
That statement doesn't help at all
They could have said....

He may have two arms....but not necessarily
He may be called John .....but not necessarily

That would have been as useful.

Myksyk

golfnut1 wrote: »

I just seems strange that they would put in "He may be a fellow competitor" if he doesn't have to be.
That statement doesn't help at all
They could have said....

He may have two arms....but not necessarily
He may be called John .....but not necessarily

That would have been as useful.

Well I think they do actually need to stipulate that the fellow competitor is an allowable marker.

golfnut1

Myksyk wrote: »

golfnut1 wrote: »

I just seems strange that they would put in "He may be a fellow competitor" if he doesn't have to be.
That statement doesn't help at all
They could have said....

He may have two arms....but not necessarily
He may be called John .....but not necessarily

That would have been as useful.

Well I think they do actually need to stipulate that the fellow competitor is an allowable marker.

I ...maybe your right

k.p.h

That is fair enough IMO. I don't think the marker needs to be a competitor actually it's really just an inconvenience otherwise. I think the committee just need to be able to verify the "credibility" of the marker (for want of a better word).

TBH this explains a lot in the OP scenario, a good indication would be that the marker was a GUI/ILGU member and held a current handicap. For them not to accept a GUI member as a marker would inadvertently mean they did not accept the validity of the markers score keeping even if he was competing.

Then you look at the rule Sandwich posted and that pretty much allows a competitor to appoint their own marker if their is no other option.. Interesting stuff really ..

justcallmemoses

Qustion on the following scenario -

2 new golfers join a new club. Both must submit 3 scorecards to submit a handicap (Rejoining after 4 year break).

Can they play in the same singles 3 ball?
Can a non-handicap mark a card?

ForeRight

Only a person with a an active Gui can mark your card.

spacecoyote

ForeRight wrote: »

Only a person with a an active Gui can mark your card.

Are you sure on that? When I first joined a club, it was with a few others & we all played together & signed each others cards.

We were paid up members of the club but hadn't our GUIs issued. We had no issue from the club & had our handicaps issued based on those cards.

It was probably about 7 years ago, so rules may well have changed

kennethrhcp

long time lurker to boards.ie... 1st time poster

to OP I think the issue here would be that his/her non-GUI friend wasn't agreed pre-round. if it was announced while signing in I'm sure it could have been addressed & confirmed ok or not & correct action could have been taken. who was the person marking the card? how is anyone to know if they grasp the basic understanding of the rules that GUI members are meant to have (not saying all do but at least the basics). I'm not saying the low handicapper in question did or would do anything against the rules but if there was a GUI member marking his card you'd think they'd be in a better position to say if a rule had been broken rather than a non-GUI member.

to my knowledge it was always the done thing that only a GUI member (playing in the comp) can mark your comp card. I was out in a 3ball a few weeks back & I was asked to mark a new member's 2nd card... he went to take my card but I said I'm pretty sure that'd DQ me (not that i'd have won anyway!).

@spacecoyote in your instance i'd image the club handicap sec/pro/committee knew ye well & even though it was against the usual rules they reviewed yer cards & thought the playing handicaps issued were correct

ShriekingSheet

Sandwlch wrote: »

USGA/R&A Decision.
6-6a/1 Lone Competitor Appoints Own Marker

Q. In a stroke-play competition, a lone competitor had no marker. No member of the Committee was present to appoint one. So the competitor played with two players playing a friendly game, and one of them served as his marker. Should the Committee accept the card?

A. Yes. Since the Committee failed to provide a marker, the Committee should give retrospective authority to the player who acted as the competitor's marker.


I have never come across a club with competition rules specifying who may or may not mark and sign a card. In the absence of such rule, the above applies.

Amazing.

OP, let us know if you / the player got any joy from shoving this in the committees face!

Common sense would suggest that a Medal card should be marked by a fellow competitor. But when you think about it, several clubs have separate comps on medal days (eg: for older members, or higher handicap members, who don't play off the back tees and play stableford.). Players competing in different events can and do (and must) mark each others cards. So it's not an awful big leap that someone unrelated to the club or the GUI could mark a card.

Seems a bit silly to me, but I totally agree that the rule/decision is an accurate call. As has been suggested, for those who think it's silly, let them legislate for it in the local rules or competition day rules.

ForeRight

Scenes!!!!

Long time lurker bursts in with a reply to a 6 year old post

kennethrhcp

ForeRight wrote: »

Scenes!!!!

Long time lurker bursts in with a reply to a 6 year old post

well... there's no coming back from that now. saw it in recent posts & didn't look @ dates

i'll get my coat...

ShriekingSheet

kennethrhcp wrote: »

long time lurker to boards.ie... 1st time poster

to OP I think the issue here would be that his/her non-GUI friend wasn't agreed pre-round. if it was announced while signing in I'm sure it could have been addressed & confirmed ok or not & correct action could have been taken. who was the person marking the card? how is anyone to know if they grasp the basic understanding of the rules that GUI members are meant to have (not saying all do but at least the basics). I'm not saying the low handicapper in question did or would do anything against the rules but if there was a GUI member marking his card you'd think they'd be in a better position to say if a rule had been broken rather than a non-GUI member.

to my knowledge it was always the done thing that only a GUI member (playing in the comp) can mark your comp card. I was out in a 3ball a few weeks back & I was asked to mark a new member's 2nd card... he went to take my card but I said I'm pretty sure that'd DQ me (not that i'd have won anyway!).

@spacecoyote in your instance i'd image the club handicap sec/pro/committee knew ye well & even though it was against the usual rules they reviewed yer cards & thought the playing handicaps issued were correct

Disagree.

There's 30 posts here in this topic. 29 of them cite "the done thing", subjective opinion, and other anecdotal supposition. Only one post (by Sandwich) clarifies with an actual ruling/decision.

I actually agree with your points - but they're just your points. A committee member wasn't present. It doesn't say the player has to ring up the committee, email the committee, check the bar and the showers for the committee. It says in their absence, he can appoint a marker, which he did.

I think this shouldn't be allowed, by the way. But strictly by the book, it clearly is.

kennethrhcp

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

Disagree.

There's 30 posts here in this topic. 29 of them cite "the done thing", subjective opinion, and other anecdotal supposition. Only one post (by Sandwich) clarifies with an actual ruling/decision.

I actually agree with your points - but they're just your points. A committee member wasn't present. It doesn't say the player has to ring up the committee, email the committee, check the bar and the showers for the committee. It says in their absence, he can appoint a marker, which he did.

I think this shouldn't be allowed, by the way. But strictly by the book, it clearly is.

i really wish I didn't post in a 6 year old thread!

i hear ya that Sandwich was the only one to post an actual ruling but that was in the event of a lone competitor... I don't think it's been said if he was a lone competitor: "Last group out in the medal is allowed to take on a green fee". i know it's pointless now but if it was a 3 ball (2GUI & a green fee) & all swapped cards then this rule becomes invalid... tbh I'm just trying to save face here!!!

ShriekingSheet

kennethrhcp wrote: »

i really wish I didn't post in a 6 year old thread!

i hear ya that Sandwich was the only one to post an actual ruling but that was in the event of a lone competitor... I don't think it's been said if he was a lone competitor: "Last group out in the medal is allowed to take on a green fee". i know it's pointless now but if it was a 3 ball (2GUI & a green fee) & all swapped cards then this rule becomes invalid... tbh I'm just trying to save face here!!!

Fair enough. I didn’t notice the date either!