Q? Does your club pay it's coaches?

Backmarker

Historically, the club I'm involved with hasn't paid any officials, except out of pocket expenses. One of the coaches recently suggested that he be given a stipend for coaching.

What do most clubs do? I appreciate that people will probably not be eager to divulge what, if any, amounts are paid, but I'd be very interested to hear if (m)any clubs pay their coaches.

tunney

“What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly"

ecoli

From my experience there are a few high quality coaches who are paid small amounts but the vast majority are voluntary.

I do think that paying something is a good idea though for a few reasons.

Consider the time between writing up schedules, attending sessions/ race meets as well as upskilling themselves to improve on their knowledge many coaches do this out of the passion for the sport but due to work commitments (putting food on the table) they are forced to put money before their passion and as such many coaches are limited by their own living standards.

I know myself personally I am lucky to be in a job which I am able to study alot of theory behind training however I cannot contribute to my clubs training sessions because of work hours and as such all my athletes I train are done online and as such am unable to attend their sessions and meets as much as I would like to. Likewise working weekends I am rarely able to attend workshops which are conducted around the country to help upskill myself. Basically I need the job to live but it is also the job which impeeds my development as a coach to a point.

Another advantage of coaching incentives is it can be used to keep full time athletes in the sport. Look at the vast experience of runners through the years in Ireland who have performed at a high level globally etc. Usually these athletes have worked under two or three coaches in their life time and have learned alot themselves and developed their own approach but after they retire from the sport due to lack of funding often this knowledge is lost as they return to the working world.

If you look to some of the coaches who are producing good athletes at the moment alot you will find were notable runners themselves:

Al Salazar currently coaching Mo Farah/Galen Rupp/ Ciaran O Lionaird
Mark Carroll currently coaching Mark Kenneally
Dick Hooper coaching at Raheny and Sean Connolly
James Nolan currently coaching in UCD

These are just a few examples from a wide range of ability levels tp prove that we need to make the sport an attractive place in order to improve the quality of coaching which in turn has a knock on effect on level of performance.

I actually met up with a boardsie last year to go over a bit of coaching stuff he wanted help with. At the end he asked me how much I charged. I was baffled and said he was grand. He actually seemed to get angry at this gesture and felt that this was one of the problems with the sport that people expect people to do things for free and it was this amateurist mindset which the sport needs to get out of in this country if we want to look to progress.

When you think about it €1 per session from an athlete and if you had 10 in a group that is €10 per hour for a coach not a huge amount but it could stand to a coach especially if you got full time athletes doing this the club is giving back to the athletes as well as gaining a valuable asset from high performance experience

BeepBeep67

Most coaches do it for the love. Our distance coach is happy to give advice and build plans for the price of a coffee, you keep buying coffee, he keeps offering advice.

thirtyfoot

Very few AC clubs pay coaches. Mine, one of the biggest in the country don't. We would have several carded athletes so it's not a mickey mouse setup. The best coaching setup in the country doesn't accept money. It's in the fabric of the sport to not get paid. It doesn't mean you don't have a professional approach, far from it. There are some facets that do, S&C coaching for example.

I know that in tri there is money. A guy at work does tri and is alright at it. He pays a coach, not sure how much. As regards abilty he'd be a punter in relation to the dozen athletes I coach yet I'd never consider asking for money despite the athletes been of a much higher calibre. Maybe I should be in tri!!!

I believe clubs shouldn't pay, best coaches could be paid but by the NGB.

Coaching is like having a relationship with an athlete. It's very personal. The coach gets something from it, the athlete gets something from it. If money comes into it, I don't know, might feel like you are grading down the canal streets of Amsterdam and looking into windows.

RoyMcC

I've rarely heard of it in club athletics. In Jersey however we are fortunate enough to be able to afford (via sponsorship and grant) a full-time Development Officer. This has made a remarkable difference, having a coach to work both with the senior athletes but also to help develop the sport lower down.

I coach as many hours as I possibly can and wouldn't dream of accepting payment from any source. The same goes for all other coaches I know both here and in Ireland.

Ecoli has an excellent point though. So much expertise is lost when elite athletes retire without putting anything back. Without doubt, those that have received top coaching are in the best position to impart their knowledge. I don't think though that payment would be a motivation.

Those coaches (many like me) that have taken it up without having been top athletes ourselves will rarely get beyond a certain level of competence. (There are exceptions of course).

thirtyfoot

RoyMcC wrote: »

Ecoli has an excellent point though. So much expertise is lost when elite athletes retire without putting anything back. Without doubt, those that have received top coaching are in the best position to impart their knowledge. I don't think though that payment would be a motivation.

Those coaches (many like me) that have taken it up without having been top athletes ourselves will rarely get beyond a certain level of competence. (There are exceptions of course).

I disagree to a certain extent. Great athletes don't always make great coaches. Crap athletes can make great coaches. I think athletes will know whether they want to coach coming to their twilight years. They will make a conscious decision and money will not be a factor. Its not a career move to be honest unless you can cross over to GAA or Rugby with some power expertise that's applicable there.

Paying coaches flat amounts would be stupid and throwing money away. Putting resources into making them better coaches through education, mentoring, support teams (scientific/medical/strength) would be much more useful.

thirtyfoot

To the OP - is the coach any good? Has he produced great athletes? If not, tell him to get lost. Could you survive without him?

tergat

thirtyfoot wrote: »

I disagree to a certain extent. Great athletes don't always make great coaches. Crap athletes can make great coaches. I think athletes will know whether they want to coach coming to their twilight years. They will make a conscious decision and money will not be a factor. Its not a career move to be honest unless you can cross over to GAA or Rugby with some power expertise that's applicable there.

Paying coaches flat amounts would be stupid and throwing money away. Putting resources into making them better coaches through education, mentoring, support teams (scientific/medical/strength) would be much more useful.

thirtyfoot,

I fully agree with all your comments. Coaching an athlete is a privilege regardless of standard/ability although character testing at times:) Coaches should never forget why they are involved in coaching and the difference they can make in people's lives.

I would prefer to see money pumped into upskilling coaches at coach education courses/workshops/camps abroad/ties with local university sports science structures etc.

Coaching is about hard work, constantly upgrading your knowledge, building relationships with your athletes and putting in the hours out in the field. Elite athletes do NOT always make good coaches in fact it can be quite the opposite. There are many great coaches all over the world who were never world beaters.

To be a great coach give 100% commitment to devote much of your life as is possible to coaching and you'll reach those unexpected heights of coaching. Coaches need to be adept at blending science with the art of coaching. Everything should be based on a blend of formal research with anecdotal observation. Both are valuable and necessary. It is the individual attention that coaches give that makes the difference; it is understanding the details and the processes of training that matters; it is understanding how to cultivate the mental and emotional well-being of athletes that matters; and it is having the courage to learn more that matters.

Pump money into educating the coaches and giving them better opportunities to learn. Knowledge is power!!!

Tergat

RoyMcC

thirtyfoot wrote: »

I disagree to a certain extent. Great athletes don't always make great coaches. Crap athletes can make great coaches.

Not disagreeing at all but those athletes that have been on the end of years of good coaching, who know what it takes, are more likely to have good coaching credentials at the higher levels.

I started a young lady off on discus when she was nine. Now, eight years later I know a fraction of what she knows about the event.

ecoli

I can see where Thirtyfoot is coming from to some extent and that is why i think this is a great topic (been missing these kinda threads the last while:))

Firstly my comment regarding amateur mindset was not referring to coaches or athletes in particular but rather the sport as a whole in terms of NGBs expecting athletes / coaches to do stuff for free and developing in spite of aid (monetary or otherwise) rather than aiming to give every possible aid which can be given to help people achieve their potential. Often you see this when trying to adjust from college scholarship life where they have been given these aids from institutions so they are able to focus solely on the sport to being left to fend for themselves and having to over come this to continue their athletics career. This is not a pop at NGBs either before anyone interprets it that way but just the stark contrast.

I also agree that great athletes dont always make great coaches and vice versa you only have to look at the likes of Renato Canova for high calibre coach without great running pedigree himself or look to many runners who failed to live up to previous levels comparing running to their coaching careers. My point is that often Elite athletes have an end date to their involvement in the sport. They sacrifice some of the most employable years of their lives and by the time they become involved more in the working world often employers look at their years of unemployment (pursuing their ambitions in running) with negativity. We should be aiming to enable the sport to be seen as a financially viable life long pursuit.

I am not saying every coach should be paid but rather similar set up to football (obviously on a much smaller scale) where retired players can go for their coaching badges after their career in order to pursue another employment avenue within the sport after their involvement

I agree also with your reference to the relationship between an athlete and coach and at the more high performance level i think this is right (and coaches dealing with elite/sub elite level would be better paid through organizations rather than the actual athletes). In terms of club level though i think the relationship between athlete and coach changes slightly and we see alot of the time it is all give on the side of the coach and all take in terms of the athlete. By giving a token payment a club athlete can be doing a few things:

An average athlete usually comes and goes from training and if they miss sessions there are no ramifications etc. Often this is at the expense of the coach who is at the club sessions whether its 1 or 20 athletes that show up. Athlete misses session and not really missed coach misses and there is terrible negativity towards the coach.

By giving a token payment the athlete is less likely to miss a club session or even part of their schedule simply because they have the mind set "I'm paying for this so should stick to it". How many people get plans done up in gyms and think they are the business simply because they are paid for. It could be one off the internet and full of s^!t but because paid for their is more motivation to do it.

There are two sides to this coin however I can understand the idea that by keeping things amateur it attracts only the ones with a genuine interest but at the same time I think this interest should be rewarded somewhat or atleast not be seen as a burden on the person financially

Would love to hear peoples views on this

Backmarker

thirtyfoot wrote: »

To the OP - is the coach any good? Has he produced great athletes? If not, tell him to get lost. Could you survive without him?

I'm afraid I don't want to get into that here - I'm hiding behind an 'alter ego'

I appreciate all the comments to date. This is an area that I haven't heard being discussed openly very often and it's nice to have a frank discussion on the topic here. There have been some interesting points on the merits.

I'm glad (and a little surprised, particularly as it's Friday - generally a slow discussion day) of the number of responses and there's been a lot of helpful info to date. Thanks everyone! Keep the responses coming.

ecoli

Backmarker wrote: »

I'm glad (and a little surprised, particularly as it's Friday - generally a slow discussion day) of the number of responses and there's been a lot of helpful info to date. Thanks everyone! Keep the responses coming.

Some of us dont do the 9-5 Mon-Fri and still in work:D

shels4ever

ecoli wrote: »

Some of us dont do the 9-5 Mon-Fri and still in work:D

Yep , your not the only one.

RoyMcC

ecoli wrote: »

There are two sides to this coin however I can understand the idea that by keeping things amateur it attracts only the ones with a genuine interest but at the same time I think this interest should be rewarded somewhat or atleast not be seen as a burden on the person financially

Coaches (athletics and other amateur sports) get their reward in non-financial terms. It's how we love to spend our time and there is huge satisfaction in seeing athletes respond and hopefully improve.

The coach/athlete relationship is a special one and, in my opinion, this would be ruined if there was a financial angle. Speaking for myself only I would be most uncomfortable if payment were to be offered, either by athlete or club.

However, we think here that there might be an opportunity for paying certain club athletes, or college students, to spend some time in the schools developing the sport. Here we are at a disadvantage with (for example) the rugby club who use their professionals for this sort of work.

RayCun

ecoli wrote: »

I am not saying every coach should be paid but rather similar set up to football (obviously on a much smaller scale) where retired players can go for their coaching badges after their career in order to pursue another employment avenue within the sport after their involvement

I was going to bring that up actually - professional footballers often become professional coaches, paid by clubs, training more professional footballers.

But is that what the OP talking about? Or is he talking about amateur, sub-elite athletes? What is the situation for people coaching amateur footballers? Do local GAA clubs pay their coaches?

shels4ever

RayCun wrote: »

I was going to bring that up actually - professional footballers often become professional coaches, paid by clubs, training more professional footballers.

But is that what the OP talking about? Or is he talking about amateur, sub-elite athletes? What is the situation for people coaching amateur footballers? Do local GAA clubs pay their coaches?

Yes , but no. The official line is that they shouldn't be paid but most are paid. I know a boards poster was tapped up by a GAA club in the last few weeks.

ecoli

RayCun wrote: »

But is that what the OP talking about? Or is he talking about amateur, sub-elite athletes? What is the situation for people coaching amateur footballers? Do local GAA clubs pay their coaches?

In this case answer is no they dont get paid however I think by athletes giving something like a euro each not only can it be a nice token to show appreciation to a coach.

As I said before regardless whether there is 1 or 30 athletes at a club session coach usually will be there supervising the session (in a club situation) as well as taking their days off to travel the country for races so it can be a bit demoralizing for a coach if athletes are coming and going or taking 1 session here and ignoring others which kinda makes the coaches overall plan/schedule for the athlete redundant and as such doesnt really motivate them to upskill (unless they are a real glutton for punishment and have the thirst for knowledge)

This view point is more from a group training point of view though than a personal one to one coaching set up which creates a bond between the athlete and the coach.

I dont disagree with much of what has been said and there is a huge satisfaction in coaching an athlete to new heights in there performance (For me i get the same satisfaction from one of my athletes PBing as I do with PBs i run myself) but it can be frustrating and demoralizing for a coach to put so much effort into trying to get the best out of an athlete and the athlete to go awol or the coach to be chasing an athlete for feedback etc. At a sub elite level this becomes more frequent and often the relationship doesnt get a chance to build up as a result

RoyMcC

True ecoli, athletes come and go at the sub-elite level - especially the young teen level. We as coaches need to understand that the coach/athlete relationship can often be fleeting. There's usually nothing personal - the athlete just moves on, often to do something completely different.

And it's also true that you can rarely set a detailed programme for a group if they come and go.

If you're not passionate about your sport then this will de-rail you. If you love your coaching you'll always be there ready to welcome athletes, old and new, and do your best for them. If you accept the rough with the smooth with equilibrium then you'll always love your coaching.

Let whatever money is available go towards equipment or other expenses.

ecoli

RoyMcC wrote: »

True ecoli, athletes come and go at the sub-elite level - especially the young teen level. We as coaches need to understand that the coach/athlete relationship can often be fleeting. There's usually nothing personal - the athlete just moves on, often to do something completely different.

And it's also true that you can rarely set a detailed programme for a group if they come and go.

If you're not passionate about your sport then this will de-rail you. If you love your coaching you'll always be there ready to welcome athletes, old and new, and do your best for them. If you accept the rough with the smooth with equilibrium then you'll always love your coaching.

Let whatever money is available go towards equipment or other expenses.

It raises an interesting connundrum though as best way to motivate athletes to stick at a sport is through evidence in results yet if you dont have full control of an athlete's training schedule it can hinder a long term development plan which is essential for improvement.

My suggestion wouldnt be taking from the club but rather like i said each athlete of the group give a token gesture of 50c-1e per "session" which is not taken from the club but rather the athletes who partake in these sessions as a sign of appreciation of the work put in by the coach.

Often good performances are attributed to hard work of an athlete but bad races and the coaching/ schedule is first thing to be scrutinized.

I am not here to have a moan about getting appreciation but rather just trying to highlight all angles as I think this is a really interesting topic and there are some great views on it here so far

foxy123

The OP has completely missed the point about these sessions.

The sessions that the coach in question is talking about being paid a gratuity for are specific sessions, outside that of normal coaching. For example, Strength and Conditioning, Core Strength, Endurance, Circuits, etc. These sessions take a lot of planning, before the coach even sets foot in the venue.

The sessions proposed are more akin to gym sessions than athletics coaching.

ecoli

foxy123 wrote: »

The OP has completely missed the point about these sessions.

The sessions that the coach in question is talking about being paid a gratuity for are specific sessions, outside that of normal coaching. For example, Strength and Conditioning, Core Strength, Endurance, Circuits, etc. These sessions take a lot of planning, before the coach even sets foot in the venue.

The sessions proposed are more akin to gym sessions than athletics coaching.

To me these should come under the umbrella of coaching as they are specific to the benefit of an athlete and as such are in fact part of athletics coaching. Supplimentary work is crucial to injury prevention strength and etc so to me they are not independent of each other.

Also it would be interesting to distinguish whether the coach in question has any experience/ qualifications beyond athletics coaching which make them feel they should be entitled to any "gratuity" payment. Athletics session need to be sat down and planned through months in advance with the idea of goal races in mind so would be interesting to find out why they feel there is a disctinction?

Backmarker

foxy123 wrote: »

The OP has completely missed the point about these sessions.

The sessions that the coach in question is talking about being paid a gratuity for are specific sessions, outside that of normal coaching. For example, Strength and Conditioning, Core Strength, Endurance, Circuits, etc. These sessions take a lot of planning, before the coach even sets foot in the venue.

The sessions proposed are more akin to gym sessions than athletics coaching.

Afaicr, the OP, namely me, merely asked the question:

Backmarker wrote: »

Historically, the club I'm involved with hasn't paid any officials, except out of pocket expenses. One of the coaches recently suggested that he be given a stipend for coaching.

What do most clubs do? I appreciate that people will probably not be eager to divulge what, if any, amounts are paid, but I'd be very interested to hear if (m)any clubs pay their coaches.

The discussion has been, imho, very informative. ...let's keep it that way.

I merely want to find out what other clubs do.

thirtyfoot

Adding a fee, even nominal, will be another barrier which will lead to further athlete attrition. It also won't automatically lead to an improvement in the relationship, that will be gained by time and a demonstration of committment by both coach and athlete, much like any relationship. Money doesn't mean people feel more obliged to commit. This applies whether you have 1 or 30 athletes. In my opinion having athletes pay a coach (unless maybe the athlete is earning decent cash) is not a good idea.

On bringing ex athletes into play, that is already in place. There has been fast tracking of Irish internationals up the levels for a few years now. The specs of the Event Co-Ordinators say the Co-ord will try to attract ex athletes into coaching. Those efforts have been ongoing for a while.

ecoli

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Adding a fee, even nominal, will be another barrier which will lead to further athlete attrition. It also won't automatically lead to an improvement in the relationship, that will be gained by time and a demonstration of committment by both coach and athlete, much like any relationship. Money doesn't mean people feel more obliged to commit. This applies whether you have 1 or 30 athletes. In my opinion having athletes pay a coach (unless maybe the athlete is earning decent cash) is not a good idea.

On bringing ex athletes into play, that is already in place. There has been fast tracking of Irish internationals up the levels for a few years now. The specs of the Event Co-Ordinators say the Co-ord will try to attract ex athletes into coaching. Those efforts have been ongoing for a while.

I think this is a key point and one that both our experiences in coaching have led us to the points we are both making. You are right the committment aspect is a two way street and as long as the coach is not more motivated than the athlete but rather the motivation is on par that non monetary relationship work is fully possible.

Didnt realise this was the case but at the same time fast tracking to a voluntary position still doesn't provide a viable option for someone who has spent the previous 20 years in the sport just "getting by" on Sports grants etc (referring to ones who dont sign sponsorship deals).

Again I think this comes down to love of the sport aswell and as long as their are people with this love there will be coaches/officials/forum posters who will continue to contribute to the sport. We are limited by this passion though and it could be one reason for the sport becoming more minority over the past 30 years and the birth of professional sport (just speculating on theories here not to be construed as my position on the matter)

Clearlier

Coaches are not paid in my club. There is a charge for athletes to use certain facilities - track and weights room come to mind. There's no actual coach for the road running side of the club which I think is a pity as it's difficult for new people to come in and progress. They can ask questions and they can join in the sessions (which are tailored to include everybody no matter what their pace) but there's nobody they can go to and work out a training plan with. It's probably no coincidence that we attract decent athletes from other clubs but very few beginners.

From a sport point of view I would think that like the GAA has done historically any funds we can generate should go back into the club to develop facilities. Athletics is an individual sport in more ways than most but you can get a real sense of a team in a club. Even as I had a disaster at London earlier this year I was delighted at how well the rest of the team had done and was proud that the club had picked up the silver team medal. Realistically I had nothing to do with this - I can't push them in sessions, I don't give training advice but I still felt a part of it. Athletics clubs need to generate that feeling of belonging to get people to come through the door and then to stay. I don't think that paying coaches would help - my instinct is the opposite but I'd imagine that each situation would have to be judged on its own merits.

notsofast

What does a club do when they don't already have an experienced coach, the senior people associated with the club are not interested in coaching and the juvenile coaches are parents who are helping out and not interested in progressing beyond a level 1 coaching cert? They pay a coach to come in and provide the expertise.

There may very well be a number of coaches dedicating their expertise to coaching in clubs for no reward, but there are not enough of these to go around. An experienced coach is not going to help out at a club where they have no community or personal involvement, and are probably fully utilised anyway. My guess is that the practice of paying coaches is more prevalent that some people would like to believe.

thirtyfoot

Good point notsofast. That's a situation where you contact your RDO and get them to help. I went to such a club with an RDO, all free, a while back to coach some athletes and the coaches. Was a great session. Throwing money at things doesn't always work. The situation you point out where adults aren't willing to step up to the plate will mean that club can't survive. Getting some person in to coach the athletes for a fee is an unsustainable model. Maybe get a coach in to coach the coaches, every so often. Or, God forbid, affiliate to a bigger club with better coaching structures as a means to meeting the shortfall.

I have heard of some clubs paying outside people to coach and it's sad as the coaches aren't great.

On the person who said to the OP that the coaching should be paid as there is extra planning due to the fact it's circuits etc, as ecoli pointed out there should be that type of planning for all coaching aspects on the track or off. Imagine being a one man coaching setup in a progressive country club who do all events, run, jump, hurdle, throw etc. Preparing and managing a session for that group will be more complex than putting a few exercises placeholders on a gymfloor and blowing a whistle every 30 secs in a circuits session.

RoyMcC

Indeed the key is to get athletes exposure to better coaching as they progress. Most clubs have willing parents and entry level coaches. Too few of these go on to really study the subject and grow with their athletes. In my firm opinion this is one major reason for the dropout rate in teenage athletes - they are not being exposed to better coaching, just more of the same.

So, there are three options, all mentioned above

1. Encourage some of these beginner coaches to progress, maybe through mentoring by elite events coaches
2. Further encourage former athletes - who are more likely to have the skillsets - to develop their coaching
3. Create a pyramid of super clubs and feeder clubs so as to maximise coach and facility resources

There may be scope for paying coaches or development officers at the higher levels, I don't know.

notsofast

RoyMcC wrote: »

Indeed the key is to get athletes exposure to better coaching as they progress. Most clubs have willing parents and entry level coaches. Too few of these go on to really study the subject and grow with their athletes. In my firm opinion this is one major reason for the dropout rate in teenage athletes - they are not being exposed to better coaching, just more of the same.



So, there are three options, all mentioned above

1. Encourage some of these beginner coaches to progress, maybe through mentoring by elite events coaches
2. Further encourage former athletes - who are more likely to have the skillsets - to develop their coaching
3. Create a pyramid of super clubs and feeder clubs so as to maximise coach and facility resources

There may be scope for paying coaches or development officers at the higher levels, I don't know.

I think you are correct regarding above average teenage athletes and access to better coaching. For the average/below average, it doesn't matter what coaching they get, most will drop out.

Regarding 1&2, imagine you are in your new position as an RDO with AAI, how would you go about practically implementing these? What encouragement would you give to a level 1 coach/former athlete in an average club to upskill, assuming that money is not an option. How would you see mentoring by elite level coaches working?

Regarding 3, don't mention the war.:)

RoyMcC

notsofast wrote: »

Regarding 1&2, imagine you are in your new position as an RDO with AAI, how would you go about practically implementing these? What encouragement would you give to a level 1 coach/former athlete in an average club to upskill, assuming that money is not an option. How would you see mentoring by elite level coaches working?

It might be happening already - I'm out of the loop at this stage. But take throws where the exellent David Sweeney is in charge. Presumably he has already identified his key events coaches. But if I were Dave I'd see it as my job to get into the clubs and identify who is coaching throws - not so many Those that are enthusiastic enough I'd want to make feel wanted, feel part of the overall plan for Irish coaching. Assign them a mentor who will keep in regular touch. That way your club coaches are enthused, feel empowered to progress themselves and their athletes.

I'd also be tapping up former international throwers. Why isn't Terry McHugh involved in coaching javelin, for example. Is Anita Fitzgibbon going to get involved as a womens' role model perhaps?

There's clearly a lot going on at elite level but the link into the clubs isn't there - or at least there was no sign of it during my two-year stint at Crusaders.

robinph

We pay a quid each evening that we turn up for training sessions with the club. I generally only turn up to two of the days a week myself, but I think there is another day they run also. Different days are different things, but for example the Mondays are generally just different groups running at different pace around the local roads, and mostly just chatting. The people that "lead" those sessions have some basic coaching qualification I think but I'd not consider them coaches.

Thursdays for most people they are then doing some slightly different sessions lead by the same people. The faster group of us though do a session with a coach from one of our local competitor clubs so that group is a mix from our two clubs and often the university club as well. I'm pretty sure that coach is getting paid to turn up, although he would turn up anyway I think.

I went along to a county development evening a few months back, I was actually presenting some information on clubs becoming incorporated as companies to protect the members and then get the added bonus of some tax breaks from the tax man as part of that process. Another thing that was discussed at the same evening though was how to go about setting up a payroll for the clubs to be able to pay their coaches, and also the what you can do.
I was only half listening to that part, but the likes of the low level "coaches" that come along to our club on a Monday and basically just lead a group around cannot be paid, they would be turning up regardless and even giving them petrol expenses would draw attention from the tax man. The coach that turns up from the other club and runs our Thursday sessions for the faster group can be paid though, it's not his clubs normal club night and we as a separate club are making use of his services.

That was the general jist that I picked up anyway, and of course this is all UK'ish.

Rocket Science

I often look at the elite athletes in Ireland and note that all the support team (strength & C, nutritionist, psychologist, physio, masseur etc etc ) are paid except the coach who in most instances is the one doing the most important work and primarily responsible for the success of the athlete. Very often the coach has to spend significant amounts of their own money travelling to competitions at home and abroad with the athlete. The coach spends hours of time trackside and away from the track planning etc. While it can be hugely satisfying for the coach when thongs go well, most athletes don't really appreciate what they get for free from their coaches. They move on with hardly a backward glance!

thirtyfoot

Rocket Science wrote: »

I often look at the elite athletes in Ireland and note that all the support team (strength & C, nutritionist, psychologist, physio, masseur etc etc ) are paid except the coach who in most instances is the one doing the most important work and primarily responsible for the success of the athlete. Very often the coach has to spend significant amounts of their own money travelling to competitions at home and abroad with the athlete. The coach spends hours of time trackside and away from the track planning etc. While it can be hugely satisfying for the coach when thongs go well, most athletes don't really appreciate what they get for free from their coaches. They move on with hardly a backward glance!

I would disagree with the comment that most athletes don't appreciate what their coach does, far from it. There are exceptions but those types of people will be like that in any walk of life.

Eurox

Why isn't Terry McHugh involved in coaching javelin, for example.

RoyMcC, he is, he is the national javelin coach in Switzerland and working with a lot of young throwers.;)

RoyMcC

Eurox wrote: »

RoyMcC, he is, he is the national javelin coach in Switzerland and working with a lot of young throwers.;)

Ah, thanks Eurox Ireland exporting its talent again, plus ca change...