Crisis of masculinity: Myth or Reality?

The King of Moo

Much has been made since the 90s of the idea that there's a crisis of masculinity in the modern western world.

And it seems to have cropped up a lot recently. I've noticed a few threads in different Boards fora touching on the idea.
And three new American TV shows (though I think one has already been cancelled) are based around the idea:
Last Man Standing
Man Up!
How to be a Gentleman

Generally the "crisis" centres around the idea the world is now more feminised and men can't express their natural masculinity.

Another big part is the idea that too many men nowadays aren't "manly" and wear skinny jeans/use moisturiser etc.

Personally, I think the whole idea is bollocks. This generation is no different from others. Some men conform to traditional conceptions of masculinity, and some don't, and that's how things have always been.

The sense that men of previous generations were more manly has always existed.
And looking back through history, men have always complained that there were too many "dandies" or "sissies among their generation.

It all boils down to personal insecurity, which everyone feels to some extent, and has been blown up into an imaginary "crisis."

What do you think?

TL;DR: Are you a man or ain't ya!?

chin_grin

There's a show on the city channel called "metrosexual" Joe. It's a disgrace Joe.

cml387

Brilliant post, reduced me to tears.

Sykk

Jimmy Carr: I'm socially gay.. I'll notice when a female friend changes her hair, or gets new shoes... But I won't accept your c##k in my arsé!

talkinyite

definite reality

Chuck Stone

A man's gotta know a few things.

How to sharpen a knife. How to wire a plug. How to light a good fire.

The King of Moo

cml387 wrote: »

Brilliant post, reduced me to tears.

Want a hug? :pac:

chin_grin

The King of Moo wrote: »

Want a hug? :pac:

Don't touch those hips!

foxyboxer

Kerry Footballer Paul Galvin writes a weekly fashion column for the Irish Independent.


There's a hint in there somewhere.

stovelid

It's just a modern twist on the immortal sensitivite man theme used by student males get student females into bed for decades.

The King of Moo

foxyboxer wrote: »

Kerry Footballer Paul Galvin writes a weekly fashion column for the Irish Independent.


There's a hint in there somewhere.

Not so new, George Best owned a fashion boutique!

I Heart Internet

Slightly off topic but there's a VHI advert on tv at the moment where Aoife (I think it's Aoife) is saying how she was too busy to be filling out forms after her surgery because she had "two screaming babies to take care of " (or something like that) "and a husband".

Said as if a husband was a complete liability. A drain on your life - instead of another human being who could help!

I haven't been as angry at the tv since I saw Mama Mia (horrible, man-hating film) :mad:

I Heart Internet

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Slightly off topic but there's a VHI advert on tv at the moment where Aoife (I think it's Aoife) is saying how she was too busy to be filling out forms after her surgery because she had "two screaming babies to take care of " (or something like that) "and a husband".

Said as if a husband was a complete liability. A drain on your life - instead of another human being who could help!

I haven't been as angry at the tv since I saw Mama Mia (horrible, man-hating film) :mad:

is it this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpJYTV0FzuE
well she did say worried about her husband

it's a bit stupid though
"all it said was sign here"
well that's clever isn't it
just sign there and nevermind what it says :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
i also find it hard to believe that a form would JUST say "sign at the bottom"

what a stupid ad

The King of Moo

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Slightly off topic but there's a VHI advert on tv at the moment where Aoife (I think it's Aoife) is saying how she was too busy to be filling out forms after her surgery because she had "two screaming babies to take care of " (or something like that) "and a husband".

Said as if a husband was a complete liability. A drain on your life - instead of another human being who could help!

I haven't been as angry at the tv since I saw Mama Mia (horrible, man-hating film) :mad:

I hate ads like that, reinforcing tired old stereotypes: men can't operate basic things like an oven, the wife's really the brains behind the operation.

They are sexist, though I think most intelligent men and women think they're crap, and I wouldn't say they really reflect reality or are very influential in terms of people's attitudes towards men.

stovelid

The King of Moo wrote: »

Not so new, George Best owned a fashion boutique!

George Best wasn't a violent, red-faced, sillage muncher in fairness.

foxyboxer

bluewolf wrote: »

is it this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpJYTV0FzuE
well she did say worried about her husband

it's a bit stupid though
"all it said was sign here"
well that's clever isn't it
just sign there and nevermind what it says :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
i also find it hard to believe that a form would JUST say "sign at the bottom"

what a stupid ad

I think the mother is quite sexy actually but alas I must banish such desirous and monstrous thoughts immediately as they make me a potential rapist. :rolleyes:

4leto

Its because women have more power and more of a say in what they find acceptable/unacceptable. This is relatively a recent event, so the old order of what it is to be a man is defunct. So that changes us, but for the better I think.

These are extraordinary times for liberty, only in my lifetime the world has seen the beginning of civil rights and civil equality for minorities, then gay rights, then women's rights with the feminist movement, then children's rights, even animal rights. All this does and has changed our culture, to what I don't know, its still a work in progress.

I Heart Internet

bluewolf wrote: »

is it this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpJYTV0FzuE
well she did say worried about her husband

Yes. That's the one. And her name is Niamh.

Looking at it again I see that there's actually an image of her husband being confused by a brush and a frying pan.

Stiffler2

No the modernised western world has for sure turned into a load of sissies.
I wasn't around "back in the day" and was born in the 80's but the changes I have seen recently disgust me to be honest.

It all started when Women were given equal rights and got into the workplace and government.

Before that happened, you could smoke in pubs, weren't looking at a health & safety sign every 10 seconds etc etc..

Blokes moisturising and wearing tight jeans with their camp haircuts would have been shot back in my fathers days.

Make's me rightly sick it does.
So yes Men are deffo not as masculine as they used to be at all at least in the western world.

Back in the day it was cool to smoke, cool to drink.
If men got cancer they said "Cancer ? I'll smoke it out !! "

So Women are to blame but at the root us men are to blame for letting it happen in the 1st place.

LisaLee

If anything, gender roles can't be assigned just to sex. With regard to housework, there are some things that he's better at, some things I'm better at. He can make a roaring fire, the best chicken teriyaki but he knows how the washing machine works, to say otherwise is patronising and quite insulting. He's the man of the house, I'm the woman of the house, it is level pegging.


I don't like that VHI ad either. :P

The King of Moo

Stiffler2 wrote: »

No the modernised western world has for sure turned into a load of sissies.
I wasn't around "back in the day" and was born in the 80's but the changes I have seen recently disgust me to be honest.

It all started when Women were given equal rights and got into the workplace and government.

Before that happened, you could smoke in pubs, weren't looking at a health & safety sign every 10 seconds etc etc..

Blokes moisturising and wearing tight jeans with their camp haircuts would have been shot back in my fathers days.

Make's me rightly sick it does.
So yes Men are deffo not as masculine as they used to be at all at least in the western world.

Back in the day it was cool to smoke, cool to drink.
If men got cancer they said "Cancer ? I'll smoke it out !! "

So Women are to blame but at the root us men are to blame for letting it happen in the 1st place.

I don't follow: how do women's rights and increased employment lead to health & safety regulations and men being more into cosmetics and fashion?

What's the connection?

Surely things like the smoking ban are due to our increased awareness of the damage cigarettes can do, and people's right not to have their health harmed by others' smoking.

Pherekydes

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Looking at it again I see that there's actually an image of her husband being confused by a brush and a frying pan.

I'm often confused by these too.

It's good that I have a wife to look after me to threaten me with the frying pan if I try to fry an egg on the brush.

foxyboxer

When Steve Jobs passed away some fella wrote this.

"I can't believe Steve's gone, I'm actually crying as I type this."

:eek:

It's a difficult one this. It all boils down to purpose. The purpose of men to women. The stereotype of the bread winner is gone. Now Men can be seen as merely egg fertilizers. Women don't even need that anymore.

foxyboxer

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Yes. That's the one. And her name is Niamh.

Looking at it again I see that there's actually an image of her husband being confused by a brush and a frying pan.

My interpretation is that he has to cook and clean the place himself.

ScumLord

If you look back in time men have maybe been more frilly than today. I can't remember what they where called now but remember the wig wearing frilly shirt men back in the 19th century(?) They'd wear make up and then go out and shot a man for being rude to them. Tribes wear big head dresses, men dress up to display power and wealth just like women dress up to show their physical health.

Masculinity like all things in human culture changes depending on the environment those men live in. Displays of wealth around clothing is basic old school sexual behaviour that all animals do.

snotboogie

foxyboxer wrote: »

When Steve Jobs passed away some fella wrote this.

"I can't believe Steve's gone, I'm actually crying as I type this."

:eek:

It's a difficult one this. It all boils down to purpose. The purpose of men to women. The stereotype of the bread winner is gone. Now Men can be seen as merely egg fertilizers. Women don't even need that anymore.

Why? Have men become obsolete in the workforce? Men are no more mere egg fertilizers than women are mere eggs...

Interestingly I read a study that the media obsession with attractive female faces has lead a huge persentage of women desiring similar features in men. It said that grown women are likely to desire the more feminine Justin Beiber types in 2011 than they were in 1911, while more masculine Russell Crowe types are being left behind....

This female desire could be at least partially responsible for crises in masculinity....

--Kaiser--

I'm not sure about this one. Some of the guys I work with are basically grunting, shambling shaved apes. Can't say I know many effete men.

Male teenagers these days all look homosexual to me (not that there's anything wrong with that), but then again, my Dad probably thought my peers all looked homosexual when I was a teenager (not that there's anything wrong with that)

I Heart Internet

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8840458/Black-schoolboys-underachieving-because-academic-success-is-seen-as-gay.html

Makes me sad:(

Any notion of gender, sexuality, race, religion, etc, etc that keeps people stuck in this kind of mentality ("learning is gay") is just plain wrong.

Snakeblood

ScumLord wrote: »

If you look back in time men have maybe been more frilly than today. I can't remember what they where called now but remember the wig wearing frilly shirt men back in the 19th century(?) They'd wear make up and then go out and shot a man for being rude to them. Tribes wear big head dresses, men dress up to display power and wealth just like women dress up to show their physical health.

Masculinity like all things in human culture changes depending on the environment those men live in. Displays of wealth around clothing is basic old school sexual behaviour that all animals do.

Dandies. As far as I read, they would dress like that for the express purpose of killing or injuring whoever insulted them.

http://achewood.com/comic.php?date=02142002
This is true masculinity, btw.

ScumLord

Snakeblood wrote: »

Dandies.

That's it, I was thinking dandy boys but Google was showing something else for that.

mattjack

The King of Moo wrote: »

Much has been made since the 90s of the idea that there's a crisis of masculinity in the modern western world.

And it seems to have cropped up a lot recently. I've noticed a few threads in different Boards fora touching on the idea.
And three new American TV shows (though I think one has already been cancelled) are based around the idea:
Last Man Standing
Man Up!
How to be a Gentleman

Generally the "crisis" centres around the idea the world is now more feminised and men can't express their natural masculinity.

Another big part is the idea that too many men nowadays aren't "manly" and wear skinny jeans/use moisturiser etc.

Personally, I think the whole idea is bollocks. This generation is no different from others. Some men conform to traditional conceptions of masculinity, and some don't, and that's how things have always been.

The sense that men of previous generations were more manly has always existed.
And looking back through history, men have always complained that there were too many "dandies" or "sissies among their generation.

It all boils down to personal insecurity, which everyone feels to some extent, and has been blown up into an imaginary "crisis."

What do you think?

TL;DR: Are you a man or ain't ya!?

I dropped my monocle reading this..

py2006

The ironic thing is that modern men who are respectful of women and treat them as equals in all areas of life (rightly so) are often referred to as not being 'real men' or the 'nice guy' which is a turn off for a lot of women! I guess you can't win.

One theory put out there for the high suicide rate among young men is that the role of a man in society is no longer defined.

Call Me Jimmy

women have the whole 'got to live up to marketing' thing and men have the 'gotta be more manly' thing. Evens out I suppose.