Tenants used/put old car oil into oil tank!!!

De_man

Got a call from tenants saying they had a problem with the heating and could i arrange for plumber to sort it out

Went there myself, UNBELIEVEABLE:eek: turns out they were putting old car oil in to the tank it's in S***. :mad:

Any suggestions in cleaning out the tank, i've put the oil into a 45Gallon drum and what solution could i put in the line to clean it out

It's a firebird internal boiler

This is head wrecking stuff

I can't try to burn it off incase of poisioning etc

Thanks in advance

heinbloed

What is your question?

Danbo!

heinbloed wrote: »

What is your question?

De_man wrote: »

Any suggestions in cleaning out the tank, i've put the oil into a 45Gallon drum and what solution could i put in the line to clean it out
Thanks in advance

ಠ_ಠ

Avns1s

Had A**hole tenants that did the same thing last year. The burner was fecked!

Billy Bunting

heinbloed wrote: »

What is your question?

heinbloed wrote: »

Knowledge costs money,
Ignorance is cheap and keeps the plumber happy, not the consumer.

Never mind!! there'll be a plumber along in a minute.

Merch

How long has that being going on? is this a newer boiler?
Definitely get it serviced and charge them, how did you find out they did it? did they admit it? damage (if any) depends on how long its going on.

for one its illegal to dispose of engine oil incorrectly? Im sure this would count too,not sure what damage it might do, do you have an inline filter? I'd replace it, would there be one at the boiler too?

how full is the tank? is it just engine oil or an kerosene oil/engine oil mix?
I'd imagine the engine oil is heavier (open to correction), is the tank tilted off in the opposite direction as the tap off for the line to the boiler? if so you may be able to drain off the engine oil until you only get kerosene (i wouldnt trust these tenants to do it) prob just throw it down the drain, although you could get them to do it and you just give instructions/watch them.
Then make them bring it in their car to a legit disposal centre.

De_man

if this wasn't so serious i'd be laughing


there was about 30 Gallons in it when i went over today, they admitted
they were doing it for some time...man of the house is a mechanic:rolleyes:

i've emptied the tank in to a 45gallon drum, Merch yes it should separate by tomorrow...will see tomorrow if the tank is repairable, i reckon by putting petrol through the line i should sort it out.

it's the boiler i'm worried about, as the wall area on the house surrounding the exhaust is pitch black

besides giving it a good clean & changing out the jet, cleaning photo cell etc what else should i look for...

heinbloed

There is no solution you can put into the oil pipe to clean it ( " ...what solution could i put in the line to clean it out ")

Two methods to get out the engine oil there are: pressurised air and vacuum.

After that clean the boiler, ask a heating engineer to do that. The tank is empty anyhow. Refill the tank, restart the boiler, the engineer will do that. The boiler's performance has to be tested, the flue pipe and the chimney to be checked and maybe cleaned. Maybe repaired if damaged.

The boiler could be ruined as mentioned above by other posters. So don't ask the cowboys, get a competent, insured person in to check the situation. Someone who knows more than what colour the flame should show.

If it is a steel tank there might be corrosion as well. So get this and the pipe between tank and boiler checked as well.

These are major costs, propably more than a month' rent. Think about billing the tenants for this.The pressure with the environment control officer might help, waste oil is no legal fuel, not legal to burn in a standard household boiler.

De_man

heinbloed wrote: »

The boiler could be ruined as mentioned above by other posters. So don't ask the cowboys, get a competent, insured person in to check the situation. Someone who knows more than what colour the flame should show.

Think the best thing is to hand this over to a local heating engineer

Can't take a chance with any possibility of Carbon monoxide etc etc

not worth it,,,send the tenants a bill then they'll do a runner!!!:rolleyes:

Thanks very much lads for the advice

heinbloed

Well, that could be a consequence.
On the other hand they'll do it again since they got away with it before. The 'stupid' owner will pay for the damage anyhow. Maybe the exchequer will have a look at these tax dodgers, waste oil isn't taxed.
And the source of the waste oil would be in trouble as well. So there is a long lever on your hand: environment, taxing and causing damage to property.

Merch

Dont send them the bill, demand they foot the bill, up front outright, why should you pay upfront?

Id make that arrangement to pay before getting in heating engineer, let them have a few cold days if they aren't willing to stiff up the cash, why should you for their screw up, least tell them to have the money ready before the heating engineer arrives, and dont allow them A do it themselves or B arrange it themselves, not a plumber but the nozzle may be screwed, lines need cleaned, waste oil disposed, if the wall is black outside, whats the boiler like? covered in soot, may cost more than a standard service?
Is the exhaust pressure measured? soot up there???

Merch

heinbloed wrote: »

There is no solution you can put into the oil pipe to clean it ( " ...what solution could i put in the line to clean it out ")

Two methods to get out the engine oil there are: pressurised air and vacuum.

After that clean the boiler, ask a heating engineer to do that. The tank is empty anyhow. Refill the tank, restart the boiler, the engineer will do that. The boiler's performance has to be tested, the flue pipe and the chimney to be checked and maybe cleaned. Maybe repaired if damaged.

The boiler could be ruined as mentioned above by other posters. So don't ask the cowboys, get a competent, insured person in to check the situation. Someone who knows more than what colour the flame should show.

If it is a steel tank there might be corrosion as well. So get this and the pipe between tank and boiler checked as well.

These are major costs, propably more than a month' rent. Think about billing the tenants for this.The pressure with the environment control officer might help, waste oil is no legal fuel, not legal to burn in a standard household boiler.

Im inclined to think a solvent might be needed to clean any residual oil out/wash the inside of the tank?, kerosene itself is a solvent so could be used to clean the lines. Then perhaps pressurised air/or vacuum to help evaporate solvent, but not absolutely essential as kerosene will be used in the line, the same kerosene could be used if it was filtered, but then that set up would have to be made up, Im assuming an oil heating service guy wont have that to hand, maybe the parts needed, so more cost.

Im sorry to say, Id be as if not more concerned as to what has happened the inside of the boiler?, is it a newish model??

edit, do you have a deposit?
Is this a family?? or a group of lads

heinbloed

Im sorry to say, Id be as if not more concerned as to what has happened the inside of the boiler?

That would be my concern as well. The overall costs.

About the solutions - or solvents- to clean the pipeline; yes, petrol or ethanol or other organic solvents could be used. But then the cleaner is stucked with a few buckets of hazardous, combustable organic solvent. A catch 22 case. Where to go with it? Paying at the local dump? Asking a hazwaste handler to pick it up? Down the drain?

To keep the amounts of problematic waste small (handling costs!) we would try not to dillute it. So a mechanical removal in this case would be the first solution to look for.
Depending on the installation a simple draining using the laws of gravity could be answer.
Air - pressurised or vacuumed - could be pre-warmed, giving a better viscosity. The empty tank in the sun with the lid closed for a few hours and then a fluid-hoover attached to the end of the pipe. Of course earthened and suitable to handle organic solvents (risk of fire/explosion).
Or blowing through (warm) air with a compressor.
Check with the tool hire shop.There are suction pumps for hire for these cases.

This is just a sugestion, ask the professional waste handler for the perfect solution.

Merch

heinbloed wrote: »

That would be my concern as well. The overall costs.

About the solutions - or solvents- to clean the pipeline; yes, petrol or ethanol or other organic solvents could be used. But then the cleaner is stucked with a few buckets of hazardous, combustable organic solvent. A catch 22 case. Where to go with it? Paying at the local dump? Asking a hazwaste handler to pick it up? Down the drain?

To keep the amounts of problematic waste small (handling costs!) we would try not to dillute it. So a mechanical removal in this case would be the first solution to look for.
Depending on the installation a simple draining using the laws of gravity could be answer.
Air - pressurised or vacuumed - could be pre-warmed, giving a better viscosity. The empty tank in the sun with the lid closed for a few hours and then a fluid-hoover attached to the end of the pipe. Of course earthened and suitable to handle organic solvents (risk of fire/explosion).
Or blowing through (warm) air with a compressor.
Check with the tool hire shop.There are suction pumps for hire for these cases.

This is just a sugestion, ask the professional waste handler for the perfect solution.

Any solvent would have to be disposed at a wastehandling facility or by a professional (licensed) organisation. I believe engine oil can be disposed of at ballymount? kerosene has similar constituents as engine oil, I dont think it would be unreasonable to dispose of it that way, but Id ask first? or a professional service, either way, charge the tenant.

If there appears to be any problem regarding payment, I'd tell them you plan to follow up with local authority to make a complaint about him disposing of hazardous waste at your property, they caused the problem let them pay.

edit, i know you're not serious saying the drain, but whats this about leaving stuff in the sun , I think it might be too cold even with the sun out to pick up any heat?? unless it was sitting in the sun/no clouds for a while.

Would filtering the residual kerosene under pressure to make it useable be possible?? if thats possible maybe someone with an older less advanced burner could use it without any detrimental effects??

I have heard there are burners (not like domestic oil burners) that can burn a wide range of waste fuel mixes? maybe there is a route to dispose of it legitimately/legally that way? I dont know much about them but I'd assume combustion is at a high temperature to burn completely.

Billy Bunting

Empty the tank as best you can, get a couple of hundred of kero, then get an Oftec engineer in with a flue gas analiser to set up the burner to burn what you have.

Merch

Billy Bunting wrote: »

Empty the tank as best you can, get a couple of hundred of kero, then get an Oftec engineer in with a flue gas analiser to set up the burner to burn what you have.

And charge the idiot that did the damage

I wonder how much excess oil that guy has poured down the local drains, obviously sees nothing wrong with burning it, what else too?

heinbloed

Yes,

If there appears to be any problem regarding payment, I'd tell them you plan to follow up with local authority to make a complaint about him disposing of hazardous waste at your property, they caused the problem let them pay.

this should be the way to go. The OP worries that the culprits do the runner as soon as bills are presented. And it is the owner of a piece of land who is legally responsible for costs caused by or from his property.

So he would be stucked between lost income/rent and legitimate bills.
Tax dodging by the tenants would not fall under this but enviroment problems would. Depending on the neighbours - some might like to pull the trigger- the case could become costly.
The material costs to the owner like boiler, flue, tank etc.. are direct costs and influence the value of the property directly, the potential rental income.

...i know you're not serious saying the drain, but whats this about leaving stuff in the sun...

Right, I didn't mean to let it evaporate which would be a long process anyhow but to get it more fluid, to increase it's viscosity for a better run-off.
With this cold weather we face at the moment the waste oil could turn thick, to stiff to handle to get out of the pipe. Which might be the cause of the problem why the tenants have called for the landlord to check the boiler ...... or frozen water in the pipe or parafine/wax sediments....

With a warm pipe and air in it it would be easier to clean it with physical means instead of chemicals. Which in turn would confront us with a disposal problem and aditional costs.




About

I have heard there are burners (not like domestic oil burners) that can burn a wide range of waste fuel mixes? maybe there is a route to dispose of it legitimately/legally that way? I dont know much about them but I'd assume combustion is at a high temperature to burn completely.

Well, without licence there is no waste burning in the EU anymore. Even timber and peat has to be up to specifications nowadays, let alone waste engine oil as in the OPs post.
High temperatures are an efficient method te burn carbohydrates without sooth but could create dioxines, depending on the chlorine content. Think about harmless things like cooking fat from the chip shop containing salt (chlorine) being burned between 600 - 1300 degrees Celsius. This is the temperature when dioxines are created - as far as I remember.
And this is the standard combustion temperature for a home heating device.....
A waste incinerator would work below this temperature or above and/or involve filters of some type. And a licence(smiley).

heinbloed

Merch wonders :

And charge the idiot that did the damage

I wonder how much excess oil that guy has poured down the local drains, obviously sees nothing wrong with burning it, what else too?

Nothing the forum can do about it. Think forward, don't let anger hinder your business, the renting project.
There is a "landlord association" which might be worth to join. Excuse my words/terms, I'm not in the profession.
Water-proof rental contracts with a deposit to be payed could be a half answer for these cases, a carefull selection of clients(tenants) as well.
In the end it is always a risk. Connecting to the gas grid? Cementing up the chimneys of the open fire places?
Or a flat-out rent including the space heating costs and oil tank fills are for 'free' ?

There are energy contractors as well, maybe worth it if you have more than 1 property.

You did well to look yourself at the problem, others would have asked the 'cheapest plumber' to sort it out. Who might have not spotted the problem or might have kept his mouth shut in hope for the next job.

Merch

heinbloed wrote: »

Nothing the forum can do about it. Think forward, don't let anger hinder your business, the renting project.
There is a "landlord association" which might be worth to join. Excuse my words/terms, I'm not in the profession.
Water-proof rental contracts with a deposit to be payed could be a half answer for these cases, a carefull selection of clients(tenants) as well.
In the end it is always a risk. Connecting to the gas grid? Cementing up the chimneys of the open fire places?
Or a flat-out rent including the space heating costs and oil tank fills are for 'free' ?

There are energy contractors as well, maybe worth it if you have more than 1 property.

No, I just mean the tenant must be a bit of a tool if he is prepared to do that, makes you wonder about the kind of people out there.

Connecting to gas is an idea, but cost? maybe make the fires gas too, so people cant burn stuff in them, unlike a neighbour of mine somewhere, who is clearly burning rubbish or plastic or something.

A flat out rent including space heating is too open to be abused to me.
but if it suits.

De_man

Thanks lads for all the replies greatly appreciated.

With a heating engineer, we cleaned out the tank as best as we could, changed out filters, air through the line and rinsed out with a few litres of kerosene.

It took the engineer the full day disassemble reassemble etc, eventhough i
would have a reasonable knowledge of rielto burner/firebird system i wouldn't take the chance.

i then took 2 X 45Gallon drums to the local dump for recycling or whatever else they do with it.

Still haven't tested it yet as the heating oil won't be delivered until tomorrow

For those interested in what happened after, I've cooled down a lot over this and have put it into perspective.
I've had these tenants nearly 3 years, and in fairness to them have never been any trouble, our "mechanic" is extremely apologetic saying this is done regularly in eastern europe:eek:


Rightly or wrongly i'm going to write the loss of it and take the hit and add it to the list for my book :rolleyes: it just ain't worth the grief

I will be doing more regular inspections tho'


Thanks again
De_man

heinbloed

You're entitled to a pint now, De_man !
Well done.

Merch

Thats very generous of you, Id be looking for someone to foot the bill if it was me, maybe more agricultural burners would not have a problem?