Buyer says engine I sold is useless

dgt

A few weeks ago, I acquired a car for parts. Had a decent gearbox and engine. I needed the box and as the engine was quite good, I put it up for sale. It had a starting problem but ran very smoothly for me. Have a video of said problem and it running. Had just 70k on it.

I took it out of the car early in September. It sat outside with a huge bag over it to prevent it from getting wet.

Sold it last Friday for my asking price. That as a full engine eg alternator, injectors, starter etc. Bolt up a box and drop it in if one wanted to

I got a call last night from the buyer saying that his mechanic had installed the engine in his car but the engine was useless and that the cylinders were flooding with water. He wants his money back.

To say I am píssed off that a working engine was trashed in just 6 days is an understatement. I have to look at the car its now installed in and see what's happened exactly. Bringing a compression tester.

What on earth am I going to do? In all my years of selling bits and bobs for cars this has never happened once. We even had an engine lying up for 30 years that we sold and the buyer never came back and complained. I have a video of the car running just 6 weeks ago, how can an engine deteriorate so fast?

Any advice is much appreciated

Mycroft H

Do nothing. Buyer beware ect.

If its a private sale i would just ignore it and do nothing, not your fault about the engine

barura

Buyer beware and the fact he knows where OP lives?

Gotta check the engine man, only way to find out. If he's tellin' porkies... Well, you know where he can stick it.

dgt

It was a private sale indeed.

I've been trying to think of possible solutions to this mess for example if the head is stuffed he could use his own head and hg kit, his own engine ran a bearing... Would it be alright to suggest something like that?

Brian?

BX 19 wrote: »

Do nothing. Buyer beware ect.

If its a private sale i would just ignore it and do nothing, not your fault about the engine

I'd agree actually. If you sold a car today and it died next week, you're not liable. Not pleasant for the buyer, but that's why it's called "buyer beware".

firefly08

OP, be careful that by agreeing to take a look at the engine, you're not giving the impression that you intend to take responsibility for the problem (unless you do of course). I would take great care to phrase things in such a way that they understand you're just helping out, out of the goodness of your heart, and nothing more.

mickdw

I would go round there and get a feel for what is going on. If he is shouting the odds, tell him to F off. If he seems genuine, you could help him out in some way seeing as he bought it in good faith.

johnos1984

mickdw wrote: »

I would go round there and get a feel for what is going on. If he is shouting the odds, tell him to F off. If he seems genuine, you could help him out in some way seeing as he bought it in good faith.

This.


Any way of telling if you are looking at the engine you actually sold him?

TBH if it's still in the garage I'd talk to the mechanic rather than the buyer. You may get some straighter answers

Jimmy Bottlehead

Isn't there also the chance he's taken your engine and is trying to flog his busted one back to you claiming that's the engine he bought?

dgt

johnos1984 wrote: »

This.


Any way of telling if you are looking at the engine you actually sold him?

TBH if it's still in the garage I'd talk to the mechanic rather than the buyer. You may get some straighter answers

Afraid not, all I have is that video of the car running (shows the engine), a few photos but it looks like every other 1.25 zetec engine made. It was an a/c engine when I had it, I don't know enough about those engines to tell if its in his car or not...

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Isn't there also the chance he's taken your engine and is trying to flog his busted one back to you claiming that's the engine he bought?

Thats what my dad suggested that I could be possibly bummed with the old engine. I should have known better and marked the block with a punch in a few places

johnos1984

You could check for marks around the engine mounts which may show if it was recently moved/removed

Also try and find out if the car left the garage to be driven. If it did the I WOULN'T PAY

Avns1s

Wont the engine number be on the Registration cert of the car you took it out of?

It was running when before you removed it, sold in that condition, bad luck for the buyer, not your problem though really is it.

elaverty

Avns1s wrote: »

Wont the engine number be on the Registration cert of the car you took it out of?

If he still has it,,,

dgt

johnos1984 wrote: »

You could check for marks around the engine mounts which may show if it was recently moved/removed

Also try and find out if the car left the garage to be driven. If it did the I WOULN'T PAY

I'm assuming you're on about the engine bay

Apparently the mechanic took out the plugs and showed him that 2 of the cylinders were filling with coolant.

Avns1s wrote: »

Wont the engine number be on the Registration cert of the car you took it out of?

elaverty wrote: »

If he still has it,,,

Never got it. Its still registered to the guy I got the car off in the first place. He was meant to sign it to me but as its a spares car that as put on the long finger

RoverJames wrote: »

It was running when before you removed it, sold in that condition, bad luck for the buyer, not your problem though really is it.

I'm regretting not showing the vid to him which shows it running in perfect working order

couldntthink

dgt wrote: »

It had a starting problem but ran very smoothly for me.

This is a tricky one. In my experience as soon as you entertain any notion of looking at it or checking it, you're already going down the road of partial responsibility. If you could ask the mechanic about it without the other guy knowing it would be better. Then you could check their stories. In any private sale it is always buyer beware, so the responsibility was on him to check before he bought. I would be very reluctant to buy an engine without seeing it running. It is his problem now really.

On the other hand, what was the starting issue you had before you removed it? Did you tell him this. Even if it was knackered it's still his problem. But I am a big believer in Karma! I also would be wary of him trying the old switcharoo with the engine!

dgt

couldntthink wrote: »

This is a tricky one. In my experience as soon as you entertain any notion of looking at it or checking it, you're already going down the road of partial responsibility. If you could ask the mechanic about it without the other guy knowing it would be better. Then you could check their stories. In any private sale it is always buyer beware, so the responsibility was on him to check before he bought. I would be very reluctant to buy an engine without seeing it running. It is his problem now really.

On the other hand, what was the starting issue you had before you removed it? Did you tell him this. Even if it was knackered it's still his problem. But I am a big believer in Karma! I also would be wary of him trying the old switcharoo with the engine!

I was thinking this too that he might get the idea it was faulty all the time to begin with the minute I said I'd have a look :mad:

I don't know myself what the problem was but it worked very well once started

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi05npRuGz0

Yes, that's the exact engine on the 2nd of Sept of this year

YBTurbo

Tell him **** off, If he wasn't confident enough to look over an engine, he should have brought his mechanic with him.


He could be pawning the old engine back on you. If you do go and look at it, you are admitting part responsibility... Tell him do one.

Unfair I know, but he should have properly checked it over or got someone with the knowledge to do it....

Who knows his mechanic didn't screw up installing it?

dgt

I've been out to see the engine in the car. Its now in my yard

Turning the key it shot water at least 20 feet into the air from cylinder number 2 and hit the roof of the garage with significant force. I was just speechless when I saw that....... I'm just bemused as I had no such problem 7 weeks ago

After a long, long discussion I decided to give him his money back and as a goodwill gesture, take the engine out myself... Strange outcome I'd say for most reading this but I did recognise some parts of the engine I had sold (mark on the cam cover, timing cover marks). He has no code for the radio, I'll be throwing that when he car goes back.

At the end of the day, he's now €200 down. I'd be fairly mad if that happened to me but he took it relatively well and kept his cool.

I have a reputation to keep, its not worth losing over €150, despite this being the first time this has happened.

Lessons have been learned for the future:

• Show the engine running
• Sold as seen
• Deliver the product (buyer bought it from my house)

When its out of the car I'll strip the engine totally and see what went wrong. I'll host the images here if anyone's interested

Thank you all for your help and advice, it was much appreciated

dgt

dgt wrote: »

.............

I have a reputation to keep........

Are you in the trade or something?

dgt

RoverJames wrote: »

Are you in the trade or something?

Were a small operation but have been selling parts for years...

dgt

dgt wrote: »

Were a small operation but have been selling parts for years...

In that case I can see the buyers point. Even as a small operation the video of the engine running wouldn't cut the mustard.

dgt

RoverJames wrote: »

In that case I can see the buyers point. Even as a small operation the video of the engine running wouldn't cut the mustard.

I did show it to him, didn't believe it was the same engine despite several pictures of the engine in my car...

To be honest, as you were selling it as your trade/profession and not privately I'm a bit surprised that you didn't carry out a compression test before selling it. Especially as it was hard to start.

weeder

dgt wrote: »

When its out of the car I'll strip the engine totally and see what went wrong. I'll host the images here if anyone's interested

Thank you all for your help and advice, it was much appreciated

please do i wouldnt mind getting a gawk

John R

dgt wrote: »

Were a small operation but have been selling parts for years...

Until that I agreed with the majority here that it was the buyer's problem but that puts a different slant on the thread.

Why is it so many traders actually believe they can just label a sale as "private" and avoid any comeback? Whatever the situation a sale from someone who is running a business selling cars/parts cannot be a private sale. You can explicitly sell the item as non-working but I imagine if you had done that this buyer wouldn't have been interested.

As it is you sold an engine as a working unit with minor non-critical faults at most. You have a legal responsibility as a trader for the products you sell to be fit for purpose, if as appears the engine did have a fatal fault then it is up to you to rectify the situation.

I am not having a go at you over your actions as you have sorted the buyer out but this foot in two camps carry-on that so many dealers come out with where they are trade when it suits them but also sell as "private" is nothing more than a con.

dgt

John R wrote: »

Until that I agreed with the majority here that it was the buyer's problem but that puts a different slant on the thread.

Why is it so many traders actually believe they can just label a sale as "private" and avoid any comeback? Whatever the situation a sale from someone who is running a business selling cars/parts cannot be a private sale. You can explicitly sell the item as non-working but I imagine if you had done that this buyer wouldn't have been interested.

As it is you sold an engine as a working unit with minor non-critical faults at most. You have a legal responsibility as a trader for the products you sell to be fit for purpose, if as appears the engine did have a fatal fault then it is up to you to rectify the situation.

I am not having a go at you over your actions as you have sorted the buyer out but this foot in two camps carry-on that so many dealers come out with where they are trade when it suits them but also sell as "private" is nothing more than a con.

Maybe I phrased things wrong...

We often buy spares cars for our own cars. We strip them, keep the bits we need and sell the rest, either as scrap or spare parts. This is a continous cycle with us. When I got the spares Fiesta, it drove very well (regretting not taking a video of that)

Were not a buisness, just have a silly amount of cars compared to your average joe soap

I understand where you're coming from, if I were a registered trader selling as private, thats totally different. This is my way of pulling back the money I used to buy the cars with

Our man in Havana

If he was vindictive enough the taxman could be on his way.

dgt

dgt wrote: »

Were a small operation but have been selling parts for years...

Our man in Havana wrote: »

If he was vindictive enough the taxman could be on his way.

If he's a boardsie he could be too.

dgt

Right I hope that's sorted

Delivered the car back, told the owner, mentioned all the parts in the boot and the radio code. Seemed satisfied with the result

As for the engine, its half stripped, I'll make a thread about it...

I hope that's the last I ever hear about that car!!!

Thank you all for your advice and opinions, I learned a lot from this experience and I hope others don't suffer the same mishap as I did!

weeder

maybe hard starting was a sign of imminent hg failire? had a bike doing similar before, would draw some water into the cylinder every time it turned over making it hard to start, at the same time it was a 2 stroke so could be different.