Provincial Championships to be scrapped?

lala88

I seen part of the GPA's agenda in an AGM on Friday this week they will ask there members if the provincial championships should be scrapped. Apparently many players consider the provincial championships to be 'irrelevant' and want an open championship across all counties. I think having the GPA members vote on it is not a very good idea as not all intercounty players are members so not all players will get there say on the matter.

As ever, there are pros & cons to that, but what does everyone think?

blowitupref

Unlikely to get scrapped however the provincial championship could be played earlier to ease the fixture congestion.

Pisco Sour

Should happen but wont. Those Munster hurling heads will never let go of their precious championship. They are having to lump Galway and Antrim (wtf) into the Leinster Championships so they can keep the Munster guys happy. It is holding the sport back. Just scrap the whole thing, and have 2 groups of 6, with the top team in each group receive a bye to the semi finals, while 2nd in Group A plays 3rd in Group B and visa versa, in a quarter final game. The bottom teams in each group play a relegation playoff, with the top team from the 2nd tier getting promoted.

More games for every team, meaning increase in standard over time as smaller teams get to play multiple games against the big boys, and it also removes the stupid mickey mouse qualifier system which changes more times than I've had hot dinners.

GAA is living in the 1920's. Time to move with the times.

mrgaa1

Agree - however unfortunately some of the dinosaurs involved aren't that far ahead in their thinking. With paid employees now operating in provincial and county offices a mechanism for monies to be collected would need to be instigated.
The stumbling block will be finance and only that - nothing to do with football and moving things on.
Why don't they try it for 2 years - and revert back if it doesn't work. However they MUST and SHOULD ensure that any new setup does not put further pressure on club games.
Make it mandatory that clubs play either on the Saturday evening previous to the county Sunday game or on the Sunday following the Saturday night county game. Clubs must get their time to play their games.

kstand

04072511 wrote: »

Should happen but wont. Those Munster hurling heads will never let go of their precious championship. They are having to lump Galway and Antrim (wtf) into the Leinster Championships so they can keep the Munster guys happy. It is holding the sport back. Just scrap the whole thing, and have 2 groups of 6, with the top team in each group receive a bye to the semi finals, while 2nd in Group A plays 3rd in Group B and visa versa, in a quarter final game. The bottom teams in each group play a relegation playoff, with the top team from the 2nd tier getting promoted.

More games for every team, meaning increase in standard over time as smaller teams get to play multiple games against the big boys, and it also removes the stupid mickey mouse qualifier system which changes more times than I've had hot dinners.

GAA is living in the 1920's. Time to move with the times.

So essentailly use the national league format? Yeah, great idea. A load of dead rubber matches with nothing to play for at all most of the teams in it.
The right thing to do is go back to straight knock out. No back door. No bye for Kilkenny either. Munster and Leinster championships, Munster champions play Leinster Champions in AIF, over by mid August, everyone happy.

kstand

mrgaa1 wrote: »

Agree - however unfortunately some of the dinosaurs involved aren't that far ahead in their thinking. With paid employees now operating in provincial and county offices a mechanism for monies to be collected would need to be instigated.
The stumbling block will be finance and only that - nothing to do with football and moving things on.
Why don't they try it for 2 years - and revert back if it doesn't work. However they MUST and SHOULD ensure that any new setup does not put further pressure on club games.
Make it mandatory that clubs play either on the Saturday evening previous to the county Sunday game or on the Sunday following the Saturday night county game. Clubs must get their time to play their games.

Not likely and very difficult to enforce. Going back to straight knock out is the only solution - every other crack pot solution will add yet more games
to the calendar and shove the whole thing back further. You could have the whole thing run off by the second week in August, have a proper do-or-die games each week and two provincial finals contested the way they should be. Instead of these mickey mosue games you have no with the back door.

Pisco Sour

kstand wrote: »

Not likely and very difficult to enforce. Going back to straight knock out is the only solution - every other crack pot solution will add yet more games
to the calendar and shove the whole thing back further. You could have the whole thing run off by the second week in August, have a proper do-or-die games each week and two provincial finals contested the way they should be. Instead of these mickey mosue games you have no with the back door.

Why does it have to be winners of Munster versus winners of "Leinster" in the final? If you want an open draw then why not make it truly "open". 16 teams, all into the one pot. If Kilkenny draw Cork in the first round then so be it. Adds to the do-or-die as you call it.

Cill Dara Abu

The provincial championships have run their course, in the football I would love to see a champions league style championship, 32 teams, 8 groups of 4, top 2 in each group go in the last 16, quaters etc, and have an open draw the whole way through.

The problem with the provincial championships is that there are not enough competitive teams in each province i.e Kerry and Cork are the only teams in Munster, Dublin, Kildare and Meath in Leinster, Galway and Mayo in the west, Ulster is the only really competitive province.

But I wouldn't be holding my breath for the old fashioned farts in Croke Park to change it!!

mrgaa1

They should make the hurling championship an open draw as an experiment - less teams to worry about. Sure isn't the Nicky Rackard and Christy Ring Cup open?

kstand

04072511 wrote: »

Why does it have to be winners of Munster versus winners of "Leinster" in the final? If you want an open draw then why not make it truly "open". 16 teams, all into the one pot. If Kilkenny draw Cork in the first round then so be it. Adds to the do-or-die as you call it.

That is the only other option I would consider. And for those who say it will be to the detriment of hurling and the development of weaker counties, all I can say is - have a look at the All Ireland Hurling Champions since 1997 while it was in place.
The problem with the Leinster Champions isnt the teams as such - the problem is playing games in Croke Park with it barely a quarter full - i.e. no atmosphere. Everyone in Munster wants to keep the Munster Championship but now no one in Leinster does because KK have disappeared over the hill. So we end up each eyar with a few half hearted games in WEexford or Nowlan Park and then games with no atmosphere in Croke Park.
Let them keep Croke Park for games that will at least bring 50000 there or rock concerts.

keane2097

A Champions League format is a lolbad idea for football.

The championship is fine as is from a concept point of view, winning Munster still matters to Kerry and Cork, Connaught matters to the teams there, Ulster is still very relevant.

The only province that doesn't really function is Leinster, and even then there was no shortage of emotional attachment shown to it after the Meath Louth fiasco last year.

There are two issues with the provincial system as it stands, one being the varying levels of difficulty in getting through each province, the other being the level of advantage winning a province bestows on the winner.

The solutions are simple enough:

1. Redraw the provinces to make them more equal in size and standard
2. Incentivise teams to win their province, e.g. by playing the four provincial winners against one another, with the winners going straight to the SFs and the losers taking on whatever two teams make it through the qualifiers for the last two SF places.

Fentdog84

You talk about scrapping to the provincial champioships but I think this would be detremental to the GAA and AI championships. An open draw would never hold interest to the GAA public for the simple reason of tradition and the excitment that local derbys every year or 2nd year in counties create. Such as Cork v Kerry, Tipp vs Cork in Munster, Meath vs Dublin in Leinster, Galway v's mayo in Connact, Tyrone v's Armagh in Ulster and various other match-ups aswell.
If you had an open draw games with counties on oppostite sides of the country playing each other in the first round would attract no interest whatsover plus there would be no immediate goal to play for like a provincial title or even bragging rights between neighbouring counties. Provincial championships need to be kept.

Fireball07

If the provincial championships are scrapped, what do smaller counties have to aspire to?

Realistically Limerick are never going to win the All-Ireland in football. But they could win a Munster. They probably should have done in 2004 and 2009, but it was something within their grasp. Clare did in 1992...maybe it doesn't come around often, but it's more regular than having a chance at an All-Ireland. And I think winning silverware or at least having the chance to is very important.

Galway and Mayo are traditional big teams in Connacht but both Roscommon and Sligo have won recently.

I just think that they are an important part of the All-Ireland championship and that opportunity to win something significant is vital for smaller teams.

Mountainlad

Fireball07 wrote: »

If the provincial championships are scrapped, what do smaller counties have to aspire to?

Realistically Limerick are never going to win the All-Ireland in football. But they could win a Munster. They probably should have done in 2004 and 2009, but it was something within their grasp. Clare did in 1992...maybe it doesn't come around often, but it's more regular than having a chance at an All-Ireland. And I think winning silverware or at least having the chance to is very important.

Galway and Mayo are traditional big teams in Connacht but both Roscommon and Sligo have won recently.

I just think that they are an important part of the All-Ireland championship and that opportunity to win something significant is vital for smaller teams.

Agreed. People talk about improving teams, but when they have no ambition beyond winning ultimately meaningless group games, why would they care?

I think we'd probably find that Kilkenny, Cork and Tipp's stranglehold would not deteriorate at all really.

I think that provincial championships are still a stepping stone. It would be massive for Clare or Limerick in their development, just like it was for Waterford, to win an a Munster title. Same with Dublin. Galway, I'm not sure about to be honest, I don't really know what winning a Leinster would actually mean to them.

But definetly think that they are important, and do provide romance in hurling. And the winners do get some kind of an advantage in a sense, though obviously there is the argument about whether 5 weeks between games is a good thing. It's not like football, where the provincial champions gain no advantage by winning their province. Though I really couldn't see this format working in football.

G S R

lala88 wrote: »

I seen part of the GPA's agenda in an AGM on Friday this week they will ask there members if the provincial championships should be scrapped. Apparently many players consider the provincial championships to be 'irrelevant' and want an open championship across all counties. I think having the GPA members vote on it is not a very good idea as not all intercounty players are members so not all players will get there say on the matter.

As ever, there are pros & cons to that, but what does everyone think?

The intercounty scene is ruining the club scene already so giving them more time to play isn't the solution in my opinion.

If you ask any Munster county (for hurling anyway), I'm sure they'd tell you just how important and how much prestige is involved in winning a Munster title. It's not their fault that KK are dominating Leinster year in, year out. The hurling championship is fine the way it is right now.

An open draw for the football championship might work with the provincial championships running instead of the January tournaments or something, although I'm not so sure that any of the football counties would be happy to have the provincial championships degraded this much.

keane2097

lolwat?

An open draw makes vastly more sense in hurling where there is only one competitive province than it does in football where there are certainly three, arguably four.