dipstick broken and left in car - NCT

fourmations

hi all

my nct is on friday and the car was getting the once over from my mechanic
and the dipstick broke and half it is left in the car
(not his fault, its a common thing due to poor design on the cooper s)

will they still do the NCT?
he reckons you could sign a disclaimer saying there
is ample oil to perform the test

will they do this?
any thoughts?

i wont have time to get it rectified before the test

thanks

4

vetstu

But how will you know for sure how much oil is in it without checking the dipstick?

johnos1984

I'd be reluctant to drive the car if some of the dipstick has dropped off into the engine or did it break when the mechanic had it out

Fishtits

Firstly if its still in the tube he should be able to remove it. Beg borrow or steal a replacement for the test.

Secondly, if I'm not mistaken, the NCT boys insert a temp probe down the dipstick tube prior to emmissions test, so it'd better be clear.

Tropheus

You'll fail the NCT unless they can check the oil. They check the oil level as too much oil can give false readings on the emissions test. Unfortunately, I know this from experience and had to drain oil from my car and have it retested.

I wouldn't be worried about driving the car with a broken dipstick as there should be a guard preventing it from slipping totally into the sump. Not that it would do much damage in the sump anyway. It would just be a bugger to remove.

barneygumble99

i presume its a diesel?? makes no difference to petrol cars in the nct. car wont be tested if its diesel as no way of knowing how much oil is in the car. because the car has to get such a high rev , if the oil is too low , it wont be sufficient to take the rev and would ultimately fall back on the tester if he revved it without knowing how much oil is in it. it makes no difference to emission levels. too much oil could also cause the oil to be sucked into the turbo so its important that oil levels are always at the recommended level. as for the dipstick part that left in the dipstick holder, id be worried if it was a steel dipstick in case it fell into the sump, probably safe enough if its plastic.

bucketybuck

He has two days, why can your mechanic not drop the sump off and remove the broken dipstick?

fourmations

barneygumble99 wrote: »

i presume its a diesel?? makes no difference to petrol cars in the nct. car wont be tested if its diesel as no way of knowing how much oil is in the car. because the car has to get such a high rev , if the oil is too low , it wont be sufficient to take the rev and would ultimately fall back on the tester if he revved it without knowing how much oil is in it. it makes no difference to emission levels. too much oil could also cause the oil to be sucked into the turbo so its important that oil levels are always at the recommended level. as for the dipstick part that left in the dipstick holder, id be worried if it was a steel dipstick in case it fell into the sump, probably safe enough if its plastic.

Thanks all, the car is petrol (with s/charger) and the dip is plastic coated fibreglass, the test is tmw morning and both me and my mechanic work full time, he was having a look at it after hours, I'll ring the nct helpline this morning and see what they say, cheers

mullingar

How much of the dipstick broke off? If its 2-3" I'd say it sank to the bottom of the sump.

I dont think it will do any damage (open to correction) as the oil is sucked up from the sump through a seive filter which will keep it out and if the piece does break into tiny pieces, the oil filter will remove them.

Borrow another dip stick and see if it goes fully in.

2 stroke

Take off the oil filler cap and use a vacuum cleaner. Yore ma prob won't thank you though. Also don't do this indoors, oil fumes sucked through an electric motor:eek:. Bad idea, drunken post.

sdanseo

2 stroke wrote: »

Take off the oil filler cap and use a vacuum cleaner. Yore ma prob won't thank you though.

Yeah, don't do this.

barneygumble99

barneygumble99 wrote: »

i presume its a diesel?? makes no difference to petrol cars in the nct. .......................

Did you just make that up?

page 5 of the NCT manual.........

http://www.nct.ie/the_test.html


EXHAUST CO/HC/LAMBDA
(This item does not apply to vehicles registered before 1st January 1980)
Method of Testing
1. Check visually in the case of 4 stroke spark ignition engines (petrol or gas) that the emission control system is complete and
properly connected and that there are no leaks in the exhaust system.
Pre Jan 1994 Registrations
2. With the engine at normal operating temperature connect the CO/HC meter as per manufacturer’s instructions. Raise the
engine speed to approximately 2,500 rpm and hold for 20 seconds. Allow the engine to return to idle and the emissions
readings to stabilise. Note the carbon monoxide and hydrocarbon content of the exhaust gases at normal idle speed.
Post Jan 1994 Registrations
3. For vehicles first registered on or after the 1st January 1994 raise the engine speed to 2,500 rpm or to a speed specified by the
vehicle manufacturer and hold for a minimum of 30 seconds. Check the HC, CO and Lambda values. If the exhaust emissions
are not within the specified limits with the vehicle engine at normal operating temperature raise the engine speed to 2,500
rpm or to a speed specified by the vehicle manufacturer and hold for 3 minutes and note HC, CO and Lambda values. Allow the
vehicle engine to return to normal idle speed and the exhaust reading to stabilise and note the CO reading.
NOTES
1. When checking exhaust emissions, the vehicle must be conditioned in accordance with the vehicle
manufacturer’s recommendations.
2. Hybrid vehicles should be viewed as an electric vehicle and will not require an exhaust emissions test.
3. For the following Rover vehicles: a) Mini 1300 carburettor and open loop three-way catalyst, b) Metro
Rover 100 1100 carburettor and open loop three-way catalyst, first registered on or before 31 December
1994, the exhaust emission limit for CO is 3.5% and for HC is 1200 ppm. Where a vehicle meets the CO
limit but fails the HC limit, the inspector must perform a further HC test at 2000 rpm. If the vehicle meets
the HC limit at 2000 rpm, it is considered to have met the requirements.
4. For Suzuki Cultas, the maximum allowable CO value is 4.5% and the maximum allowable HC value is
1200 ppm.
5. Where it can be established that the vehicle manufacturer’s recommendations on exhaust emissions are
higher than those listed in the reasons for failure then the manufacturer’s figure should be the criteria
used when deciding whether or not the vehicle passes.
6. For vehicles tested operating on L.P.G. the hydrocarbon reading must be divided by the propane/hexane
equivalent factor (PEF) which is marked on the hydrocarbon test equipment.
7. Where vehicles are fitted with twin exhaust systems the higher of the two should be taken.
8. A HC test is not required on vehicles operating on CNG.
9. This test should not be carried out where:
(a) the oil warning light remains on with the engine running.
(b) the oil level is below the manufacturer’s minimum level.
(c) the oil level is above the manufacturer’s maximum level.
10 This test does not apply to two-stroke or rotary piston (Wankel) engines

E39MSport

Sweet Jaysus RJ - too early in the morning for that

E39MSport

E39MSport wrote: »

Sweet Jaysus RJ - too early in the morning for that

I put the important bit in bold for the bed heads

opinion guy

fourmations wrote: »

will they still do the NCT?
he reckons you could sign a disclaimer saying there
is ample oil to perform the test

Interesting idea....why not just sign a disclaimer that all the lights work, all the tyres are of legal thread depth, the emisssions are legal etc etc etc, show up to NCT with detailed 4 page disclaimer and demand they simply pass your car without any inspection ???

CiniO

Are they actually checking oil level during the test?

How can they do it?
To check it precisely, with most cars you need to wait good few minutes until oil drains down to the sump.
They don't have enough time for that.

barneygumble99

RoverJames wrote: »

Did you just make that up?

page 5 of the NCT manual.........

http://www.nct.ie/the_test.html


EXHAUST CO/HC/LAMBDA
(This item does not apply to vehicles registered before 1st January 1980)
Method of Testing
1. Check visually in the case of 4 stroke spark ignition engines (petrol or gas) that the emission control system is complete and
properly connected and that there are no leaks in the exhaust system.
Pre Jan 1994 Registrations
2. With the engine at normal operating temperature connect the CO/HC meter as per manufacturer’s instructions. Raise the
engine speed to approximately 2,500 rpm and hold for 20 seconds. Allow the engine to return to idle and the emissions
readings to stabilise. Note the carbon monoxide and hydrocarbon content of the exhaust gases at normal idle speed.
Post Jan 1994 Registrations
3. For vehicles first registered on or after the 1st January 1994 raise the engine speed to 2,500 rpm or to a speed specified by the
vehicle manufacturer and hold for a minimum of 30 seconds. Check the HC, CO and Lambda values. If the exhaust emissions
are not within the specified limits with the vehicle engine at normal operating temperature raise the engine speed to 2,500
rpm or to a speed specified by the vehicle manufacturer and hold for 3 minutes and note HC, CO and Lambda values. Allow the
vehicle engine to return to normal idle speed and the exhaust reading to stabilise and note the CO reading.
NOTES
1. When checking exhaust emissions, the vehicle must be conditioned in accordance with the vehicle
manufacturer’s recommendations.
2. Hybrid vehicles should be viewed as an electric vehicle and will not require an exhaust emissions test.
3. For the following Rover vehicles: a) Mini 1300 carburettor and open loop three-way catalyst, b) Metro
Rover 100 1100 carburettor and open loop three-way catalyst, first registered on or before 31 December
1994, the exhaust emission limit for CO is 3.5% and for HC is 1200 ppm. Where a vehicle meets the CO
limit but fails the HC limit, the inspector must perform a further HC test at 2000 rpm. If the vehicle meets
the HC limit at 2000 rpm, it is considered to have met the requirements.
4. For Suzuki Cultas, the maximum allowable CO value is 4.5% and the maximum allowable HC value is
1200 ppm.
5. Where it can be established that the vehicle manufacturer’s recommendations on exhaust emissions are
higher than those listed in the reasons for failure then the manufacturer’s figure should be the criteria
used when deciding whether or not the vehicle passes.
6. For vehicles tested operating on L.P.G. the hydrocarbon reading must be divided by the propane/hexane
equivalent factor (PEF) which is marked on the hydrocarbon test equipment.
7. Where vehicles are fitted with twin exhaust systems the higher of the two should be taken.
8. A HC test is not required on vehicles operating on CNG.
9. This test should not be carried out where:
(a) the oil warning light remains on with the engine running.
(b) the oil level is below the manufacturer’s minimum level.
(c) the oil level is above the manufacturer’s maximum level.
10 This test does not apply to two-stroke or rotary piston (Wankel) engines

you dont hvae to check engine oil for petrol emissions test. why would i make that up??

barneygumble99

barneygumble99 wrote: »

you dont hvae to check engine oil for petrol emissions test. why would i make that up??

As per the NCT manual they won't test the emissions unless the oil level is correct....

9. This test should not be carried out where:
(a) the oil warning light remains on with the engine running.
(b) the oil level is below the manufacturer’s minimum level.
(c) the oil level is above the manufacturer’s maximum level.
10 This test does not apply to two-stroke or rotary piston (Wankel) engines

So it would seem that in an NCT test the emissions won't be checked unless the oil level can be determined.

who the fug

Dumb idea I know

Have you tried putting a new dipstick in to see if it will fit?

touts

fourmations wrote: »

hi all

my nct is on friday and the car was getting the once over from my mechanic
and the dipstick broke and half it is left in the car
(not his fault, its a common thing due to poor design on the cooper s)

Did he tell you this before or after he broke the dip stick. You should go back and tell him to fix it immediately or you will bring him to small claims court for the cost of getting another mechanic to fix his work, the cost of the NCT retest and the cost of hiring a car for a number of days.

bucketybuck

touts wrote: »

Did he tell you this before or after he broke the dip stick. You should go back and tell him to fix it immediately or you will bring him to small claims court for the cost of getting another mechanic to fix his work, the cost of the NCT retest and the cost of hiring a car for a number of days.

Thanks, I needed a good laugh.

touts

Why is it a good laugh. I have found mechanics spin all sorts of bull**** to cover up their mistakes or to try and squeeze a couple of extra euro out of you but the moment you make it clear you will take no nonsense from them they back down.

I dropped my car in for a service to one garage in the morning and came back to a whopping bill for a light they fixed on the dashboard. Hours of labour to take off the dash and replace a bulb behind a switch I didn't even know should be lit up. They told me that they tried to call but couldn't get through to me (I had no missed calls on my mobile and they claimed to have used my home number) so they decided to go ahead with it without my permission. I told them there was no way I was paying for it and that they could take the bulb back out and give me a car for the night. That portion of the bill was immediately dropped. Another time my wife had a service and got charged 30 euros for wipers and 5 for washer fluid. But I had changed the wipers about 3 weeks before and the washer fluid had been topped up at the weekend. So I went back in with the bill. Bollocked them out of it and got a refund on the spot.

You have to be tough in this world or some people will take advantage of you.

barneygumble99

RoverJames wrote: »

As per the NCT manual they won't test the emissions unless the oil level is correct....

9. This test should not be carried out where:
(a) the oil warning light remains on with the engine running.
(b) the oil level is below the manufacturer’s minimum level.
(c) the oil level is above the manufacturer’s maximum level.
10 This test does not apply to two-stroke or rotary piston (Wankel) engines

So it would seem that in an NCT test the emissions won't be checked unless the oil level can be determined.

yes , only on a diesel does the oil level have to be checked first.