Its now Serious!!

torturedsoul

Ok so, I recently posted on here about my worries in the pants department(got some unsympathetic replies also). I am 33. Im young, fit and up until I began cycling, virile. I only weight 64KG. There is no fat on me at all.

I am absolutely hooked on cycling and hope to god I will not have to stop. My bicycle porn has built up nicely and since I have been unemployed, cycling has made me fall in love with life again and pulled me out of the depression I was suffering. I'd like to stress how undramatic I am and I can not stress that last fact enough.

I bought a giant defy3 (entry level) about a year and half ago. It came with its bog standard saddle. I soon became hooked and since beginning cycling I get out at least 3/4 times a week.

Obviously since my strength, fitness and love increased for this sport, so did the hours in the saddle. From the very beginning (I use Cleats) I used to get numbness in my Big Toe. It never really spread much just isolated itself there. Soon after I began noticing (I have to be frank here, so apologies) a dramatic change in my ejaculation. What once was a shooter and impressive is now a dribble and very much non existent in volume

I have a constant throbbing in the soft tissue between the testicle and buttock areas.

I was a novice to begin with and when I turned to the bike shop where I got it for advice, I was greeted with the usual male bravado bull****. Laughed at and advised to get padded shorts. Padded shorts were the first thing I bought FFS.

I began questioning myself for maybe, sitting wrong, handle bars not adjusted right, saddle height incorrect, technique all wrong etc etc. I have addressed all these issues. I recently bought a new specialized body geometric saddle with a cut out. It hasn't made much of a difference. I still get the numbness in my big toe and things have gotten worse down below.

I am consulting a doctor on thursday and will not be surprised if I am told prostatitis.

I am now afraid to go on my bike but most of all petrified that I will not be able to cycle again for fear of a reoccurrence. Also I am engaged and want to start a family, I don't want to destroy any possibility of that happening(ok that might be OTT but I don't know, im a novice as I said).

I know the majority of ye on hear have absolutely no issues and the majority of people I see out cycling have no issues. I have read post on here about all of ye guys with 3/4 kids, no problems, no issues. So why am I suffering on the bike? What can I do to save me from stopping!!??

Is it as simple as buying one of these?

http://www.koobi.com/koobisaddles.aspx
http://www.ismseat.com/saddles/adamo-racing-ii

Thanks for reading this

hope someone can help.

Anyone know a cycling doctor?!

Regards
Bar

Vélo

When you say addressed the issue of saddle height etc. etc; did you get this done by a Professional bike fitter?

If not maybe give that a go.


For anything else wait and see what your Doctor says.

clonmahon

One option
http://www.ecdsports.com/

A recumbent bike is another option.

I think this kind of thing is every serious cyclists nightmare, some physical problem that forces us to give up. I hope you find a solution.

DirkVoodoo

Yes, doctor and bike fit. It's not a sporting injury, a regular doctor should be able to help.

I don't want to sound unsympathetic, but if you are going to the doctor thinking that you "won't be surprised to hear it is prostatitis", you should spend less time consulting the internet. The most likely cause is probably the most common: poor bike fit.

Bike fit and doctor. Don't fret.

cipo

Conor mcgrane is a GP and seeds lot of riders... Go see him.

Contact CI or yellow pages for his details.

He sits in NCD.

cipo

Conor mcgrane is a GP and seeds lot of riders... Go see him.

Contact CI or yellow pages for his details.

He sits in NCD.

Lumen

I find Google an excellent way to self-diagnose.

I'm not dead yet, although the auto-appendectomy didn't work out so well.

Greyspoke

You certainly deserve a sympathetic response for your unashamed honesty in detailing your problem. I'm no doctor but I'm glad you're seeing one this week as it sounds like more of a medical problem that is being exacerbated by cycling despite swapping to one of the specialized saddles that would be recommended for relieving numbness.
Have you had your bike set-up checked? Maybe your saddle is too high or too low or your reach to the bars too long. It also helps to regularly get up out of the saddle, even on flat roads, and pedal for a few metres off the saddle. Maybe wear padded shorts under padded leggings for extra comfort.
Don't let the doc simply tell you to stop cycling - it sounds like a problem that needs to be properly investigated. Good luck and I hope it all works out for you.

Beasty

So a doctor it is then, but as the one mentioned is based in Balbriggan and you are in Cork, you may want to try someone a little more local

As we are unable to allow medical advice here, I'm closing teh thread

Beasty

I've had a PM from the OP explaining he is looking to "share experiences" of this particular issue, and not seek any medical advice or suggestions. So if he (and others) can avoid any discussion on any potential diagnosis or other medical aspects, the thread can be re-opened

Jawgap

Lumen wrote: »

I find Google an excellent way to self-diagnose.

I'm not dead yet, although the auto-appendectomy didn't work out so well.

You need to get with the 21st century - self diagnose with an app. The one I have even tells you where your nearest emergency care centre is so when the domestos enema goes wrong you know where to go to so the HSE can mis-diagnose you before the doctor flees the country.

coastwatch

OP,
Have you tried tilting the saddle down slightly at the front? That would put the pressure points further back where you want it. If it starts to feel like you're sliding forward a lot, then it might be tilted too much? I find it's a very fine line and trying to set the right tilt by eye doesn't always work because some saddles have different amount of cushioning in different areas. As said above a bike fit would be a good idea anyway.

bogmanfan

Hey OP. I know you've already changed saddle without improvement, but might be worth trying a few more. I had a Bontrager saddle a few years that was like a medieval torture device. Was getting numbness in the old chap so swapped it for another. Problem went away almost immediately.

a148pro

Hmmm I get one numb toe and also a numb cock - really weird, you touch your cock and can feel it in your fingers but not in your cock!

I have had no other probs though, not cycling a huge amount, but don't want to put anything at risk.

Paul Kiernan

a148pro wrote: »

you touch your cock and can feel it in your fingers but not in your cock!

It doesn't bear thinking about:pac:.

griffin100

I can get temporary numbness if I spend too long in the TT position without a break (4hrs plus).

Try tilting the saddle slightly downward to relieve pressure and move forward if needed. Play around with saddle and bar height - the closer you get to a 'sit up and beg' position the better.

Lusk Doyle

Time for the <snip>.

See what I did there?!?

seamus

I'll occasionally get it if I've been sitting for a good while without any sprinting or climbing, but I usually find that a quick readjustment sorts it out within a few minutes.

I can remember getting it every time when I first started doing mileage 40k+, but after a series of tweaks and such with the saddle it's quite uncommon now. No more common than a sore arse after sitting in a chair for 2 hours.

My saddle is set up so that I can't really feel any pressure on the nose of the saddle between my legs, all my weight is my arse on the back of the saddle.

RobFowl

Numb knob = Not Good .....

C3PO

Always nice to find out that you're not alone ...... I also get a "numb knob" after long seated climbs on the mountain bike! Disappears as soon as I stand up for a descent .... not nice though!

a148pro

RPL1 wrote: »

Always nice to find out that you're not alone ...... I also get a "numb knob" after long seated climbs on the mountain bike! Disappears as soon as I stand up for a descent .... not nice though!

Funny last time I got it was on a seated climb out in Howth, maybe thats the problem. Its supposed to be better for fitness if you stay seated.

RobFowl

a148pro wrote: »

Funny last time I got it was on a seated climb out in Howth, maybe thats the problem. Its supposed to be better for fitness if you stay seated.

Suppose it depends on what type of activity you're planning

TheBlaaMan

Numb knob quite common here too , generally after 30-40 minutes in the saddle without much change of position, rather worrying when I first had it, but I've gotten use to when to expect it and its easily remedied. Standing in the pedals for a minute of so should get rid of it for another 30-40 minutes. I've always presumed that I've being pressurising a nerve or constricting a blood vessel in the perineum and allowing blood flow by standing up temporarily normalises things again.

I'd be cautious of self-diagnosing, specifically of tying one symptom (numb trouser snake) with another (changes in ejaculate) and drawing conclusions that they are from the one cause. Hopefully the doc will be able to clarify things for you and recommend a solution.

At a recent bike-fit, I was recommened the Fizik Aliante as a very good all rounder that many people seem to find comfortable and beneficial, (that said, I've not yet got one) so maybe its one to try if you want to go down that road. Good bike shops will often allow you try a few saddles (one at a time) for a day to two to see which suits you - might be worth bearing in mind.

Best of luck, let us know how you get on (if only to satisfy our curiosity ...)

streacy

Might not solve your problems but for straightforward numbness I can vouch for the fact that these do work...

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Brands.aspx?BrandID=734&SortBy=Price

I have the TRK and the glider and they both work fine, TRK is a little on the heavy (and ugly!) side though.

chakattack

It took me a long time to become happy with my saddle and it's all in the detail. Just slapping on a body geometry saddle isn't enough.

How much have you experimented with your position? Take measurements and make changes in small increments, one thing at a time. Go for a ride and think about how you feel on the bike, where the pressure is etc.

The bigger shops will let you try a few saddles at a time, just bring your credit card.

Forward and back position - Play around with it, get your arse bones on the wide part of the saddle, if you're sitting too far forward you will get numbness. Equally make sure your stem isn't too long and your handlebars aren't too low.

Height - Lots of good links if you google for position then play around from there. Better too be too low than too high for your problem.

Angle - Most important of all - buy a small spirit level for a fiver in a hardware shop and set it dead level.

Remember that if you adjust saddle height you need to change the forward/rearward position a little too.

Buy top quality shorts.

There's no need to stop cycling.....

smacl

My saddle is set up so that I can't really feel any pressure on the nose of the saddle between my legs, all my weight is my arse on the back of the saddle.

+1

I used to get sore and a bit of numb knob starting out so I swapped to a Selle gel flow saddle with cut out, specifically for the numbness. It didn't make any significant difference. I then moved onto a sprung Brooks Flyer, and the problem vanished over a couple of weeks. As others have already said, try a bunch of different saddles to see what works for you. Maybe look at touring rather than racing saddles, designed to get you there in comfort over the long day.

I also do a lot of other exercises including core work, which make cycling more comfy, as I naturally now tend to have more weight on my legs and arms when cycling and less on my ass. Given we're hitting the cold weather, it might be an idea to replace some or all anticipated turbo sessions with swimming, circuits, pilates or something else that gives other muscles a chance to catch up with your cycling muscles while also giving your nuts some time out of the saddle.

kuro_man

Is it possible you have over-trained?
Given your employment status and need to get out, you may just be spending too much time in the saddle without relief or rest. A sudden up-surge in time cycling won't give your ass time to recover and adjust.

I take 2-3 days off cycling after longer runs

CramCycle

I haven't had it (yet) but I have heard of it from other long distance riders. And I quote "the medical definition is Numb Nuts, you won't enjoy it but your missus will as you can keep going and going and going without stopping as you can't feel a thing", a brutally honest appraisal from an Audax Ireland member after PBP.

I did have mild numbness with my old saddle but this went when I changed to the greatest invention since the wheel. The Brooks B17.

torturedsoul

Hi all,
Firstly I'd like to say that im absolutely delighted with the advice and replies this topic has generated and over-awed by the emails I have gotten. It is of great consolation to know that this is an issue that a lot of ye have gone through and dealt with. I know this sounds a little bit oprah. But I am worried about it.

Also as the moderators have rightly pointed out, any chatter of a medical nature is purely speculative and dangerous. I will avoid anymore mention of it to the best of my ability. All i'd like to say is that the issues with the saddle I have experienced has had a direct physical reaction. This above all is what I need to get advice on.

I know I quite unashamedly mentioned my private issues, but, when I decided to write this post I thought to myself that if I wanted useful and helpful responses then I would have to write the post full on. If I went into this half hearted then I could not complain if the responses were likewise. I cycle alone and have not become a member of any club, so issues like mine I can only express on a forum like this.

The fact that "numb nuts" is a bi-product of cycling and numbness experienced by others in other areas is now more obvious to me, I feel positive that with a bit of endeavor and of course a bike fit I can rectify the problem.

Like i stated earlier, Since I began cycling, I have used the saddle that came with the bike. I have also, since day one experienced numbness in my Big Toe. I changed my saddle recently to this;
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/specialized/romin-comp-gel-road-tri-saddle-ec028207

I bought this one obviously for the cut away in it. I have noticed that I am sitting more on my sit bones then before, the numbness to my toe is not as bad but it still persists. So, from the replies above, I must have height issues somewhere. I am going to get a professional bike fit done. I am willing to travel anywhere. I heard there are some decent guys in Wicklow?! Can anyone recommend someone? I looking for a decent consultation and not the crap I have gotten from my local bike shop here in Cork (how I would love to name them)

I have tried tweaking the saddle, but similar to Father Ted with a hammer and car, I can't seem to get it right. The numbness continues. But again its good to know that some of the more experienced riders here have taken a long time to get it right.

Looking at the pros and looking at other cycling enthusiast around, most of their saddles are similar to the one I bought above. I find this saddle extremely firm. What are the benefits of this firm saddle? Even with a firm saddle, if the set up is correct I should not have any issues right?

I am extremely tempted by the following:
http://www.ismseat.com/saddles/adamo-racing-ii
http://www.koobi.com/koobiauenduroandendurogel.aspx

Like Streacy suggested above the Selle was also on my radar, but I ended up getting the Specliazed instead. How soft/Firm is the Selle BTW

Is that Brooks B17 saddle for a road racer?

I don't think I have over trained. I cycle one day and rest the next generally. I get enough recovery time. For me it is definitely a combination of a bike fit issue, a incorrect saddle and mostly bad sitting position on my behalf. There is a real lack of blood supply getting through I think.

Going on the replies above also it has come to my attention that I spend little time out of the saddle. Only when tackling high gradient hills do I leave it. This, while seemingly obvious, is something that I never thought of doing.

Finally a big thanks again for all the advice. I know its easy to have a chuckle at my predicament and the way I phrased it. I know I have more questions above but you can't beat personal accounts on saddles. I could spend a fortune I don't have on trying to route out the best one.

Anyway, I'll keep on riding, the bike anyway :-)

Cheers
Bar

Lumen

torturedsoul wrote: »

I changed my saddle recently to this http://www.evanscycles.com/products/specialized/romin-comp-gel-road-tri-saddle-ec028207...I find this saddle extremely firm. What are the benefits of this firm saddle?

The benefit of a firm saddle is that pressure is directly on your sit bones and not dispersed to your soft tissues through which the nerves and blood supply are routed.

That exact saddle you linked to has gel in it, and is therefore less firm (and more likely to cause numbness) than the non-gel version.

Some people find cut out saddles (like the Romin or the Toupe) uncomfortable on the sit bones, but I don't know of anyone who has found they cause numbness.

seamus

Bar, although it's no substitute for a proper bike fit, messing with your saddle position and/or angle could yield the most success in the shortest time - at least while you wait to see someone about a bike fit.

Some seatposts have a grade which shows you the angle that the saddle is set at, others don't.

I use a spirit level app on my iphone, I'm sure the same is available for any similar smartphone. The benefit here is that it (theoretically) gives an accurate result, but you could also use a standard adjustable spirit level.

My advice would be to set the saddle angle roughly level, if it's currently set to a positive angle (nose up). If it's currently set to a negative angle, then drop it by one degree.

Try it out for about 50km. A new saddle position always feels weird for at least an hour, so after a good two hour's riding you'll be able to tell if it's specifically uncomfortable.

If you're still having numbness issues, drop the nose by another degree. If the numbness starts to fade, but find yourself slipping forward on the saddle, then raise it by half a degree, and so on until you get comfy.

If you find that after a few adjustments your saddle is now at a stupid angle (I would say -4 deg. is the max), then your saddle may be positioned too far back, causing you to lean more on the front of your pelvis than the centre.

There should be grades on the rail of your saddle. If not, make some with a sharpie and a ruler (5mm grades is about right). Same deal again, set the saddle at a particular grade, take it out for two hours. If you're still having problems, move the saddle forward by one grade. Rinse and repeat until comfy.

The above is absolutely not a replacement for a proper bike fit and can take a week or two of tweaking and riding to get the right position, but as I say, it might help you in the short-term.

Lumen

In related news, Wesley Warren Jr has produced a short video for you.

(none of the above is particularly "safe for work")

doozerie

torturedsoul wrote: »

Obviously since my strength, fitness and love increased for this sport, so did the hours in the saddle. From the very beginning (I use Cleats) I used to get numbness in my Big Toe. It never really spread much just isolated itself there. Soon after I began noticing (I have to be frank here, so apologies) a dramatic change in my ejaculation. What once was a shooter and impressive is now a dribble and very much non existent in volume

Another factor to consider here is whether you are hydrated enough. Excess heat doesn't do your crotch any favours either so also consider whether your crotch is getting too warm on the bike (too many layers, shorts too tight, etc.). More generally though it's a topic that has been kicked around for many years - whether cycling is detrimental to sperm. Some studies suggest yes, the existence of many fathers who cycle perhaps casts some doubt. As is sometimes said, look at how many kids Chris Boardman has as someone who has spent a lot of time on a bike (he has lots of kids!) - proves nothing one way or the other of course but it might help put things into perspective i.e. lots of cycling doesn't necessarily equate to serious problems.

Stress though does seem to be commonly linked to the health of sperm, so consider too whether you are stressed about something. Ironically of course, worrying about stress itself is stressful.

torturedsoul wrote:

I began questioning myself for maybe, sitting wrong, handle bars not adjusted right, saddle height incorrect, technique all wrong etc etc. I have addressed all these issues. I recently bought a new specialized body geometric saddle with a cut out. It hasn't made much of a difference. I still get the numbness in my big toe and things have gotten worse down below.

It has been mentioned already but even the "right" saddle may not help if not used/positioned "properly". Height, fore/aft position, and angle of the saddle are all important but check the width of the saddle too. I've experienced numbness on rides over 1 hour, sometimes I've experienced pain, sometimes taking a piss during a bike ride has felt like passing razor blades. For me these issues were rare enough occurences but became more frequent over the last year or two, coinciding with pushing myself harder during rides, some seemingly minor adjustments of bike position, and perhaps a variety of other things which I've not yet successfully identified. I changed one of my saddles to a Specialised BG Romin and that seems to have resolved those issues on that bike, though I'm reluctant to say that the problem has been entirely resolved until more time has passed. I specifically measured what width of Specialised saddle was recommended for me and I found that it was the 143mm one - many saddles are actually 130mm-134mm and it can be hard to find that bit of information in their spec. Perhaps the extra width has solved the problem for me, perhaps not, but so far so good.

Incidentally, a Fizik Arione saddle was one of the ones that started to hurt me. Many people rave about that saddle but while it was fine for me sometimes, the persistent problems show that it was just not for me. Saddles are a tricky thing to get right, one of the reasons that the seemingly scientific Specialised saddle measurement approach attracted me.

The angle of the saddle is a contentious area too. Tilt up, down, or not at all, choose your poison. For me, level works best, but some of what I've read suggests that "level" in terms of the Specialised BG saddles means that the middle third of the saddle is level which leaves the nose dipping down and the back tilted up - that's how I've had my Specialised saddle setup to date and i've had no pain with it yet.

That big toe issue might well be another symptom of an underlying problem with your bike fit (or bad shoes, difference in leg length, difference in leg strength, etc., etc.). I've had issues with my toes which I've blamed on saddle height (too high), cleat position, shoe fit, and poor insoles (I needed better arch support though a better/higher insole). Any or all, or none, of those might be relevant for you too, but whatever is at the root of the toe problem, tackling that might help the other problem too.

streacy

Like Streacy suggested above the Selle was also on my radar, but I ended up getting the Specliazed instead. How soft/Firm is the Selle BTW

Neither TRK nor glider is particularly soft, though as a hybrid saddle the TRK isn't too bad. Non cycling friends look with horror at the glider but I've done the Wicklow 200 on it so can't be that bad! As Lumen pointed out though it's not about softness but about putting the pressure on the sit bones.

The TRK was the 5th saddle I tried (including a B17) and was the first that allowed me to get beyond 30k or so without numbness. It is an expensive way to find what works however and likely as not what works for one person might not for another...