So Confused....

MildredW

Just looking for a bit of advice really...

I have been with my boyfriend for 6 years now, living together for 3. Until recently we have gotten on great with the usual ups and downs that any couple go through.Probably in the past 6 months i have started to feel like something isnt right with us, I have always taken care of bills, mortgage etc and it has now really started to bother me that i feel like i am the one to always look after things and basically be more like a mother to him than an equal partner. It also doesnt help that he never wants to go out where as I am a very sociable person. Now i have no problem going out on my own with my friends but now i have started to think sure i may aswell be single and also question do i really want this for the rest of my life? I have spoken to him about all this and although he says that he does'nt want to lose me, after a week or so he goes back to the same old ways. we never have huge arguements it just feels like we are more like room mates than a couple.

To make my life my more confusing, i recently went away for a weekend with a group of friends, we have all been friends since school days but spent the most amount of time with one of my male friends who i have always got on great with but never really thought of in a boyfriend way. We have always got on really well but its now like i have seen him in a new light as he probably treated me more like a girlfriend than my boyfriend has in a while. And now i'm not sure how i feel about him or is it just the fact that im missing affection and good times with my boyfriend?? anyone been in a similar situation? Sorry its so long winded!!

BraziliaNZ

MildredW wrote: »

Just looking for a bit of advice really...

I have been with my boyfriend for 6 years now, living together for 3. Until recently we have gotten on great with the usual ups and downs that any couple go through.Probably in the past 6 months i have started to feel like something isnt right with us, I have always taken care of bills, mortgage etc and it has now really started to bother me that i feel like i am the one to always look after things and basically be more like a mother to him than an equal partner. It also doesnt help that he never wants to go out where as I am a very sociable person. Now i have no problem going out on my own with my friends but now i have started to think sure i may aswell be single and also question do i really want this for the rest of my life? I have spoken to him about all this and although he says that he does'nt want to lose me, after a week or so he goes back to the same old ways. we never have huge arguements it just feels like we are more like room mates than a couple.

To make my life my more confusing, i recently went away for a weekend with a group of friends, we have all been friends since school days but spent the most amount of time with one of my male friends who i have always got on great with but never really thought of in a boyfriend way. We have always got on really well but its now like i have seen him in a new light as he probably treated me more like a girlfriend than my boyfriend has in a while. And now i'm not sure how i feel about him or is it just the fact that im missing affection and good times with my boyfriend?? anyone been in a similar situation? Sorry its so long winded!!

Sounds to me like you've had enough. Dump him. You can do better. It's going to happen anyway, mark my words!

floorpie

I'll give you long winded...!

The things that you're describing are almost a 'script' that most breakups tend to follow. Maybe your case is different but there's tons of sociological etc etc studies that describe the patterns.

Assuming that i'm right (i mightn't be) then, even though it doesn't feel like it, you've got your cause and effect wrong. You're saying that it's been sh*t in the relationship for a while (which it might have been), which then made you realise how good a time you could have without him on your weekend away, and also highlighted that one of your friends treated you like more of a 'girlfriend' than your boyfriend does. It's the other way around though, even though it's a subtle distinction, you had a good time on your weekend away, which is now bringing into major focus the deficiencies in your relationship. The next step in the pattern is to ruminate on these deficiencies until they're unbearable, then social approval that your relationship isn't ideal is sought (e.g. asking about it on boards), then your viewpoint that the relationship isn't ideal is slowly affirmed to people that know both of you (e.g. telling your friends and family, in confidence, that he just isn't sociable enough), then once everything's decided, the relationship identity that you've created together is unraveled, on your side, until you feel like you aren't in a relationship anymore and then blah blah blah etc....you breakup.

SO. You got it exactly right at the end of your post, which people tend not to get, because they think that feelings are feelings and there's no controlling how you feel, even though there is. So this is exactly it:

or is it just the fact that im missing affection and good times with my boyfriend??

You could say that this is *his* problem, if there's little affection now then why not just move on, but these same things, and the breakup patterns, are at risk of happening in every relationship, no matter how happy, because they're not a function of the happiness or misery of the relationship and primarily to do with:

i have no problem going out on my own with my friends but now i have started to think sure i may aswell be single

This is the crux of the issue. Two people in a relationship build up an identity as being 'a pair', i guess you could say. When they start doing things too seperately, unless it's effectively agreed upon and negotiated from the start, there's a chance of one of the two feeling like they aren't part of the 'pair' anymore, their relationship-identity is at odds/irrelevant/discordant with everything else that they're feeling, and then the unravelling begins. All of the things you said in your post, you take care of the bills, the mortgage, you feel like a mother to him, he doesn't want to go out, he's not sociable enough, another guy treats you more like a 'girlfriend', you have fun without him.....they're all bad, yes, but they haven't happened over night, you're just focussing on them more now to justify to yourself the possibility of breaking up, and if you don't stem it now, you'll mull them over until you feel that it's acceptable to break up (because unless someone has a good reason, it's sort of not socially acceptable to just 'break up' without justification). By the way, i'm not saying that they *aren't* issues, he definitely does need to work on them, but they're not the fundamental issue.

SOoo, if you want to fix things, don't just think 'we need to bring the spark back' and, say, go away on trips together, do blah blah together, you need your social group to see you as a pairing. You need to involve him with your friends, weekends away, etc, and he needs to do the same (if i were to completely guess, i'd say that this is one of the changes that's happened in the last year or two, he's stopped going out with your friends as much as he used to, i'm just guessing though).

Anyway the *absolute KEY thing* now, whatever you do, is proper honest open communication. You say you've talked to him and he says that he doesn't want to lose you and goes back to the same ways, he needs to know (because he probably doesn't understand and hasn't been told in an open effective manner) that this a major, potentially relationship ending, issue. But it is one that can be totally worked out to the point that you'll feel like new men/women.

And now i'm not sure how i feel about him (the weekend away guy)

That new guy is completely irrelevant to the whole situation even though it mightn't feel like it. Having said that, it's also part of a typical breakup pattern for a person like this to be sought out (by the person in your position) to drag you out of your relationship-mode and into a new identity, but once your new identity has been established the 'relationship' with the new guy normally ends (i.e. what ye'd call a 'rebound relationship'). I'd say try and stop meeting up with him as much, if that's possible.


Sorry, that's a long post, and i could be wrong, but scan through every thread on here where someone's considering breaking up and you'll notice the same patterns over and over and over again. I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't break up, but it is possible to get back to how you felt during better times.

Neyite

Both of you need time out here. He is not making an effort, but expects that you will stay put and put up with it, you feel that you are flatmates.

I wouldnt say dump him, but you both need a break to assess where your relationship is or is not going.

floorpie

Neyite wrote: »

Both of you need time out here. He is not making an effort, but expects that you will stay put and put up with it, you feel that you are flatmates.

I wouldnt say dump him, but you both need a break to assess where your relationship is or is not going.

This would almost definitely lead to a break up, no matter how much the guy changes during the break; the situation's gone too far.

BraziliaNZ

floorpie wrote: »

This would almost definitely lead to a break up, no matter how much the guy changes during the break; the situation's gone too far.

That's what I mean, it reads like a book, once people are in this situation it can't possibly go back, that's why I said she needs to dump him asap and get it over with

floorpie

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

That's what I mean, it reads like a book, once people are in this situation it can't possibly go back, that's why I said she needs to dump him asap and get it over with

You're totally right, it's typical for people once they're in this situation to follow it through and break up, it *is* like a book/script, but only because they aren't acting rationally. They've been together for 6 years and have a mortgage, they should work on it for a while first. Or at the absolute least, the boyfriend needs to know that it's something she's absolutely willing to break up over (because it's also typical for this sentiment not to be conveyed properly).

BraziliaNZ

floorpie wrote: »

You're totally right, it's typical for people once they're in this situation to follow it through and break up, it *is* like a book/script, but only because they aren't acting rationally. They've been together for 6 years and have a mortgage, they should work on it for a while first. Or at the absolute least, the boyfriend needs to know that it's something she's absolutely willing to break up over (because it's also typical for this sentiment not to be conveyed properly).

It's gone too far, I can tell by the way she's going on that she's just not attracted to him anymore. It just doesn't come back once it gets that far. We shall see - keep us updated OP.

LegacyUser

MildredW wrote: »

I have spoken to him about all this and although he says that he does'nt want to lose me, after a week or so he goes back to the same old ways.

Obviously you have told him that he will lose you if he doesn't grow up and share some of the responsibility of running the household finances. He might not want to lose you, but he apparently expects that after a while you'll calm down and he can safely go back to being lazy again.

And to make matters worse, it sounds like you've now re-discovered what it feels like to be treated with affection. Did your boyfriend used to treat you with affection? Are you still affectionate with him?

I imagine the stress of having to 'mother' him might put you off those feelings. If you haven't communicated that to him, perhaps you should.

Try not to think too much about this other person. You owe it to yourself to sort your current relationship out first, before starting anything else with anyone else, so IMO it's best to shut those likely illusory feelings down immediately.

Wibbs

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

It's gone too far, I can tell by the way she's going on that she's just not attracted to him anymore. It just doesn't come back once it gets that far.

IMHO and experience it can come back, but only if the guy sees it's going downhill and changes accordingly to get that attraction back. So rarely do they see it and if they see it usually ignore it, that like you and floorpie said it's a pattern that fast becomes a script.

floorpie

Wibbs wrote: »

IMHO and experience it can come back...

It definitely, absolutely, back to like the first day they met, can come back. Also, on the other side of the coin, the happiest most perfect relationship can end up like this situation.

*Proper* communication = absolutely key.

MildredW

Hi again everyone, thank you all very much for your replies. I really appreciate it. Not sure how to quote people so hope this makes sense...

@ Floorpie-Your comment was spot on to be honest. Everything you have written makes perfect sense and your guesses are fairly accurate! I have definitley made it as clear as i can to him that this is a dealbreaker for me, we kinda left things at we would see how things go and have another chat in a few months and reasses things. I feel i should at least try and work on it as we have so much history and ties ie. the mortgage together that i at least owe it to us to try and work on it. The thing is i have tried to get him to go out again whether it be with our friends or organise a meal for the two of us and to be honest he would rather sit in and play his xbox. which you can imagine does not make me feel great! I think he has just become so comfortable in our relationship that he feels he doesnt have to make any effort anymore. I would like nothing more than to work things out but it is very hard to stop focusing on the negitives or to get out of this frame of mind. Also no it has not just happened overnight, i suppose it has come to this because as i am getting older the things that werent really important to me when i was 20 say are important to me now.

@ BraziliaNZ It's not that i am not attracted to him anymore its more like i have lost a bit of respect for him, i know that sounds harsh but the fact he leaves everything up to me makes me feel like that. I would rather it if he was more of his own person and took responsiblity for things instead of taking a back seat because someone else is going to do it for him. I would also never go down the road of a "break" as i know that if i done this i would not be getting back with him.

@higgledy yes he used to be very affectionate with me and i with him. you are right though, having these mothering feelings is very off putting for me. I probably havent explained this to him as well as i should have. I get that all long term relationships cannot be in the honeymoon period all the time, but surely we should have some sort of connection in that way?! Also i am going to try and avoid any contact this other person, he is deffo confusing the situation more than necessary!

Thanks again for all the replies. I have spoken to my friends about this but sometimes its better to get an outsiders point of view.

floorpie

Has something changed for him in the last year or two? Is he unsociable all day or plays xbox whenever he has free time (e.g. after work)?

I don't really believe in 'getting comfortable in a relationship' (in the bad sense) without some external force helping it happen. That is to say, if he used to be affectionate and outgoing, and that's all quantifiably changed lately, then something else must be wrong (i don't mean it's your fault, it could be anything, stress, work, money issues, friend issues, bad diet, bad sleep, anything). Being 'comfortable' (in the bad sense) in the last year is just the visible manifestation of the issue.

Talking to certain friends about it is possibly a bad idea, by the way, as i said above, talking to certain people (friends, family, and without being inflammatory, relationship/marriage counselors etc) will just let you affirm your negative thoughts and accelerate things towards a break up. You probably know that though; people who aren't happy choose the friends that they talk about it to carefully, depending on the outcome they think they want.

One last boring maybe-you-wont-care-about thing that i'm writing about off the cuff about because it was years ago i read about it so it mightn't be fully accurate, but i have a point at the end of it anyway:

You're right that relationships don't stay in a 'honeymoon period' indefinitely, the neurochemistry of the honeymoon period has been studied etc and shown to last about one year, so you're well past that phase. There's some other neurochemical process that goes on in relationships that makes people sort of kind of want to end 'em after a certain time. This was known about colloquially as the 'seven year itch' for years, because divorce rates for couples shoots up between the 5th and 9th year of being together, and this hasn't changed since the 40's or 50's when they started looking at it. There were all sorts of rationalisations for why it was the case. Then, if i remember right, i think a bunch of science dudes started relating the brain chemistry of pair bonding to this phenomenon and it all checked out; it's unavoidable, all of our brains go through the same process. I think there's some evolutionary psychological pseudo scientific thing saying that it's 7 years because that's how long it takes to have a child and raise it to a survivable age. But that doesn't mean that relationships are doomed at 7 years, not *everyone* gets divorced/breaks up then, so this is my point:

Talking to friends and taking advice from people, including me, who haven't been in long term (i.e. 6 years plus) relationships probably isn't the best idea, because we probably haven't had to learn the 'love is hard f*cking work' lesson to quite the same degree that they have. It'd be sh*t to end a 6 year thing only to find out that you've to figure out the same problems after 6 years with someone else. Eh i'm not trying to say that you'll just have to shut up and put up with it, issues are issues and they have to be explored/worked on or else, but there'll be lots of things him and you (especially you) can/should both do before it comes to a critical stage.

Wibbs

floorpie wrote:

You're right that relationships don't stay in a 'honeymoon period' indefinitely, the neurochemistry of the honeymoon period has been studied etc and shown to last about one year, so you're well past that phase. There's some other neurochemical process that goes on in relationships that makes people sort of kind of want to end 'em after a certain time.

Nowadays because of changes in the time and social dynamics of relationships, I'd say the critical period is really between 3 and 4 years. That this is the overall honeymoon period. Slightly longer or shorter depending on level of contact. IE couple dating and meeting once a week would take longer, couple living together would take a shorter route. It was a trend I've noticed in this very forum in the last 5 years. A quick glance at the RI threads and quite an amazing amount of them kick off with "we've been together 3/4 years and somethings missing". IMHO it's the most critical time for watching for signs of things going south.

MildredW wrote: »

@ BraziliaNZ It's not that i am not attracted to him anymore its more like i have lost a bit of respect for him,

Which amounts to pretty much the same thing IMHO. In my experience this drop in respect=drop in attraction is much more a reaction with the ladies. With men in general a woman can appear "weak" without it affecting his attraction. It may even make him feel better about himself if "he's being the man"(though too much of that dynamic is equally daft). If he starts to look weak for want of a better word in your eyes, the longer that goes on, the more the attraction will wane. It can be hard to pull back from too. Especially if he doesn't spot this.

sounds harsh but the fact he leaves everything up to me makes me feel like that. I would rather it if he was more of his own person and took responsiblity for things instead of taking a back seat because someone else is going to do it for him.

For what it's worth and speaking as a man I agree with you. Indeed I'd be more concerned for you(and him) if you preferred being his "mammy". He should be pulling his weight in the relationship with you. It should be more equal overall. He should be pulling nearly all of his weight in the relationship with himself. I might be wrong, but the bills stuff is the least of it? More an overall symptom. The not socialising a bigger issue. If he left you with the bills but was taking up the slack in other areas I doubt you'd be here.

The other guy is as floorpie wrote, there drag you out of your relationship-mode and into a new identity. As it were, training wheels for the breakup if it comes. I'd also agree that all too often they do end up being rebounders and you have to careful on that score. Most of all the other guy is bringing into focus your feelings about your current boyfriend.

You write "he feels he doesnt have to make any effort anymore".In my experience this is a common one in couples. This might be the male equivalent of the woman who piles on the weight in a relationship. There's an element of "if you love me then you'd accept me" kinda thing. Like you say they get "comfortable", though I'd redefine it as lazy. They have their woman/man and think it's a done deal as the years go by.

So how do you try and recover this? Hard one, simply because he needs to be on board, he needs to see what's going on, needs to have the wherewithal to actively change this and the will to do it.

First things first you have to get across how serious this is. You'll have to do it quietly and calmly. If voices are raised he'll likely just write it off, or he'll agree to change just to diffuse the argument(I've done this one myself) and the second the argument is over he'll revert to before. I'd pretty much guarantee this has happened before. You try to talk to him, voices get raised as naturally this is emotionally important to you, he flips, then agrees he needs to change, does a couple of things differently for a week or three and then back to square one. So this time don't raise your voice. If he tries to escalate the argument, quietly tell him you need to talk not argue. When things are calm explain precisely the main points that are worrying you.

IMHO I'd write them down to get an idea before you discuss things. When you write them down look hard on them. Cross off the minor stuff. Cross off specific events or examples. Keep it simple. Don't use terms like "we never" or "you always". Don't wanna go all "men are from mars" BS, but those kind of things don't compute if he has a very "male" mind. EG If you say "we never go out", he'll respond with "oh yes we do, we went out last month". Which is perfectly true in his head and in reality, but is avoiding the issue. Then heels get dug in. Instead say what you mean, something like "we don't go out as much as we used to and it's hurting our relationship". Ditto with the financial stuff. Something like "I need your help with working out the bills. It's getting me down that I'm on my own on that score".

Then if he agrees, watch what he does more than what he says. Give it a finite time, say two months to se if there's a real change in him, a return to what he was lik and the man you fell for. If not then IMHO I'd be walking away.

My 3 cents anyway.

PS I'd also look at your own behavior to see if you're enabling this in him. Common enough. He doesn't do something and you just do it anyway. Rinse and repeat. If he doesn't do something, then unless it's an emergency leave it there. EG washing the dishes. Leave them there until he does them kinda thing.

floorpie

Wibbs wrote: »

Nowadays because of changes in the time and social dynamics of relationships, I'd say the critical period is really between 3 and 4 years. That this is the overall honeymoon period. Slightly longer or shorter depending on level of contact. IE couple dating and meeting once a week would take longer, couple living together would take a shorter route. It was a trend I've noticed in this very forum in the last 5 years. A quick glance at the RI threads and quite an amazing amount of them kick off with "we've been together 3/4 years and somethings missing". IMHO it's the most critical time for watching for signs of things going south.

I can't believe how quick ye wrote that post! You're absolutely right about the 3-4 year thing, except the neurochemical honeymoon period still is about a year, but funnily enough, the new colloquial name for the breakup thing is the 'four year itch'. That's probably based on general breakups stats rather than divorce rates, but there ya go, good intuition. It's amazing the patterns ye can pick up on from reading PI/RI for a few years.

The rest of the post is spot on, except i'd add that when you say, in a diplomatic way, "we need to go out more", don't just sit back and wait for him to do all the work. At first, at least, it'll have to be team efforts, which should be easy for you being a sociable person.

MildredW

Thanks again for replies. Makes for some intresting reading....

@floorpie
He will play his xbox as soon as he gets in from work. He works shifts so on days he has off will sometimes play for the whole day. It has got to the point now where a mutal friend of ours, which was orginally his best friend has told me that he no longer rings him to go out as everytime he asks him he will say no or make up some excuse. Now I know that people are perfectly entitled to do what the want with their free time, unwinding after work etc. but to this extent to me seems a bit extreme. I have said to him on numerous occasions that he is wasting his life away but this doesnt seem to bother him. I have asked him why he doesnt like to go out and his reply is a not so helpful, I dont know. He let all his friends go by the wayside and has no other outside intrests apart from the odd day out fishing. I would love for him to get out there again and start living his own life and also a life with me.

There is honestly nothing that sticks out to me as a turning point for this behaviour, maybe when we bought our house and he had his own space to do whatever he wants. Think we have got in the habit too of me going out with my friends, he stays in (in his head everyone is happy) and on it continues.

Also this is why I am confused, he does have many good quailites (its not all doom and gloom) so i could break up with him, get with someone new who has the "missing quailities" only to find we have a whole new batch of issues down the line. Thus is life though i suppose!! And I am far from thinking I am perfect myself!! Obviously "love" isnt easy and I'm sure that all couples have their own issues that require effort, patience and comunication.

@ Wibbs
Yes if I was being honest I would say that the bills and stuff are the least if it, they just add to the bigger picture that I feel alone and that I am the only one that is making an effort. I have no intention of acting on these other man feelings as we have all been friends for a very long time and in past experiences when these things dont work out there is no going back to how it was before and I would hate to lose him as a friend. Not to mention making everything awkward for the rest of our group.

We have had a lengthy chat, were he has acknowledged that he hasnt been much of a boyfriend and said he will try and be better. I'm not asking for alot just a little bit of effort and for him to make me feel wanted and special. Not just someone who will look after him for the rest of his days. I am a firm believer in "actions speak louder than words" so we will see how we get on and take things from there. I feel i have made it perfectly clear what the consequences will be so it is now up to both of us to make the effort to try and repair our relationship.