1 accident, two insurances impacted...

TripleAce

Hi Guys,
I need some advice because I am getting really annoyed with my insurance now :mad:
I opened a thread a couple of month ago for this accident.

In short this is the scenario:
I own car A and my wife is named to driver to my car (insured with Travellers via Insure.it).
My wife owns car B and I am named driver to her car (insured with Zurich via Insure.it).

My wife had an accident with my car (car A) and was the guilty party. Damage to my own car was about 1k and damage to the third party around 900€.
We made the claim via Travellers (my insurance) and they paid the 900€ damage to the third party and 700€ to my car - I paid the 300€ difference which is my excess fee. My No Claim Bonus will be impacted by 2 points.
Everything fine until to here.

Now out of the blue Zurich (my wife's insurance for car sent also a claim form for the accident and advised my wife that her No Claim Bonus will also be impacted.
I called Insurance.it to understand why this is happening as find unfair that for a single accident two insurance gets impacted, especially because it is just a coincidence that my wife also her own car as if she had no car of her own we would have no problems and Travellers would need to cover for everything. I was told by Insure.it that Travellers sent the claim for half of the third party damage to Zurich (around 450€) and now Zurich is looking to increase my wife insurance as she was the driver (and she also must pay 200€ for the excess she has on her own insurance).
Honestly from my point of view this is an either/or situation, you either increase my insurance (as I own the car) or my wife's (she was the driver), but increasing both it looks to me like a setup of both insurance to suck money out of us.
I am very upset about this, not just for the money, but for the way the whole thing is getting handled and it is my intention to take this to a lawyer. :mad:

Your advice you very much appreciated.

Cuddlesworth

Your wife was covered under your policy and claimed on yours. It would seem that Travellers have no right to claim part of the cost from Zurich and Zurich shouldn't be entertaining them. But Zurich are within their rights to remove her no claims bonus. She crashed and made a claim, both your policy's are now affected.

Makes sense really, there is a question on claim forms regarding if you are otherwise insured, in this case the broker knew that was the case. It's a bit sh1tty though.

dharn

they probably give you a discount if your named driver has her own policy but in the above scenario they get their own back on you by hitting both policys it is pretty shabby alright i had the same thing a few years ago wife driving my car small tip next thing they are looking for my wifes policy details i would not give them but they kept after me eventually the realised that wifes was commercial jeep policy and for some strange reason the could not claim off it so i got away without both policy's losing ncb

Cuddlesworth

dharn wrote: »

they probably give you a discount if your named driver has her own policy but in the above scenario they get their own back on you by hitting both policys it is pretty shabby alright i had the same thing a few years ago wife driving my car small tip next thing they are looking for my wifes policy details i would not give them but they kept after me eventually the realised that wifes was commercial jeep policy and for some strange reason the could not claim off it so i got away without both policy's losing ncb

And when your wife renews her policy and it says have "you" had any claims or accidents in the last five years, she lies? Her insurance can and most likely will be invalidated when she has a accident in future.

dharn

when my insurance company heard it was an fbd commercial policy they said oh fbd do not pay out so we wont be bothered contacting them when wifes renewal came up just paid premeium no statement made re accidents as fbd had no payout why would the need to know

meathstevie

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Your wife was covered under your policy and claimed on yours. It would seem that Travellers have no right to claim part of the cost from Zurich and Zurich shouldn't be entertaining them. But Zurich are within their rights to remove her no claims bonus. She crashed and made a claim, both your policy's are now affected.

I doubt that for some reason, your no claims bonus refers to claims against a policy. If no claims are made against a policy it should not have an impact if someone had an accident or not.

meathstevie

dharn wrote: »

when my insurance company heard it was an fbd commercial policy they said oh fbd do not pay out so we wont be bothered contacting them when wifes renewal came up just paid premeium no statement made re accidents as fbd had no payout why would the need to know

If the company asks for details of collisions or incidents a person has been involved in if any and you do not answer truthfully you open up a serious can of worms.

Ultimately the chances are the insurance company never finds out but if they do due to an incident and then cancel the policy from it's date of inception because the proposal was based on a false representation of facts on your behalf the following can happen to you.

1) being prosecuted for fraud offences
2) being prosecuted for using a motorvehicle without insurance
3) being stranded with a massive third party liability bill

ninty9er

My parents are insured on each others cars, but also have driving other cars cover. In the case of one driving the other's car surely it's more sensible to claim on their own insurance than the policy on the car.

GSBellew

Its one of the principals of insurance, your wife's driving of your car was covered by more than one policy, both policys were liable for the claim arising out of the accident but as you can not make a profit out of a loss they effectively split the payout between them.

JabbaTheHut

Now out of the blue Zurich (my wife's insurance for car sent also a claim form for the accident and advised my wife that her No Claim Bonus will also be impacted.

It seems very crappy that they contcacted you about it, rather than your wife telling them what her policy nees renewing. As other posters have said, she'd have to tell them she had an accident when renewing, so then they could quote based on that new info. Otherwise, there could be trouble. Only thing is, I would have thought that the accident affected just that policy, and even though her name may be mud in Travellers, Zurich didn't have a claim against her. But I must admit, I know nothing about the inner workings of the insurance trade, so maybe they claim off each other behind the scenes like this all the time.

I'm just wondering, OP, the cost of the accident was €1900, I think you said. After the claim, is your insurance premium affected significantly? Only asking, cause with a claim that size, you could just as well be paying them back that money over the next 5 years or so, untill the claim is off the policy. I know not everyone has €1900 floating around, but would you have been better off paying for the damage out of your own pocket, and not claiming from the ploicy?

Gophur

If the OP's wife has "Driving other cars" cover on her policy then the Insurance companies are within their rights to do what has been done. (If this was the case then the OP should not have claimed from his policy at all) However, if she doesn't have this cover then they cannot claim from both policies.

It's all academic, anyway, as the OP's NCB will be affected by virtue of claiming off his policy and her NCB will be affected by virtue of her having been at fault in the accident.

OP, try to see if you can reverse(cancel) your claim and claim from her policy only?

Cuddlesworth

meathstevie wrote: »

I doubt that for some reason, your no claims bonus refers to claims against a policy. If no claims are made against a policy it should not have an impact if someone had an accident or not.

No claims were made against her policy. But she made a claim against his, she crashed. They don't ask if you made any claims against your own policy, its any claims in general. So if I crash my car, I lose my motorbikes NCB. If my girlfriend crashes my car, I lose my car and bike NCB. And so on.

Tea 1000

Insurance companies are scum by and large. Look at what happens if you go to seek a second policy on a second car for yourself. They tell you that your no-claims discount doesn't carry to the second policy, so you have to start from scratch, and get charged through the nose... but you have 1 accident adn both policies get hammered!

OP, you could claim just off your wife's insurance, which would be third party only, so it would cost you an extra 700 quid to do that.

Thoie

Gophur wrote: »

If the OP's wife has "Driving other cars" cover on her policy then the Insurance companies are within their rights to do what has been done. (If this was the case then the OP should not have claimed from his policy at all) However, if she doesn't have this cover then they cannot claim from both policies.

It's all academic, anyway, as the OP's NCB will be affected by virtue of claiming off his policy and her NCB will be affected by virtue of her having been at fault in the accident.

OP, try to see if you can reverse(cancel) your claim and claim from her policy only?

Slightly different (hypothetical) situation. I have comprehensive on my own car, which gives me 3rd party when driving other people's cars. My dad's insurance covers anyone to drive his car.

If I was driving his car and something happened, my plan has always been to just claim off my insurance, and leave his out of the equation - presumably in that situation his insurance wouldn't be impacted?

kerten

I can understand more expensive renewal due to drivers accident history, but losing two separate ncbs via single claim is insane. These separete ncbs costs a lot to build ans shouldn't be taken back by insurers that easy.

If they are proof of no claims of driver regardless which company you are claiming from, Then it should be accepted for multiple policies. Otherwise what is the point of building separate ncbs if you gonna lose all of them at your first claim

That just suggests me to tell insurance company that main driver had accident in this kind of situation to protect my wife's ncb from these zealots

rant over:mad:

TripleAce

Thank you all for the replies!

I have decided to take this matter further, not only for a matter of saving 200€ or whatever on the next renewal, but because I feel really annoyed about the way the whole thing has been handled and I really think is unfair.

Would you have a lawyer to recommend that does consultation for this type of matters?

Thank you.

Gophur

TripleAce wrote: »

Thank you all for the replies!

I have decided to take this matter further, not only for a matter of saving 200€ or whatever on the next renewal, but because I feel really annoyed about the way the whole thing has been handled and I really think is unfair.

Would you have a lawyer to recommend that does consultation for this type of matters?

Thank you.

http://www.financialombudsman.ie/

TripleAce

Gophur wrote: »

http://www.financialombudsman.ie/

thank you!

MugMugs

You've no recourse here. Your wife has a third party extension to drive another vehicle on her policy. Your policy also covers her. Your Insurer are entitled to claim Dual Indemnity for the third party claim against your wifes policy. Refer this to the ombudsman if you want but he will just take a long time to tell you that your complaint is wrong and the complaint is not upheld.

oldyouth

GSBellew wrote: »

Its one of the principals of insurance, your wife's driving of your car was covered by more than one policy, both policys were liable for the claim arising out of the accident but as you can not make a profit out of a loss they effectively split the payout between them.

This is the correct situation. There is also a lot of discussion here as to which policy the OP should have chosen to put the claim through. I'm afraid it doesn't work like that. If there are two policies that cover the same incident, it is the right of the insurer who has initially processed the claim to decide if they want to recover a share from the other insurer. The policyholder has no say in it.

CiniO

Thats a quotation from Allianz car insurance policy,
(exceptions for third party cover).

Exceptions to section 1:
Third party insurance
This section of your policy does not
cover:
1. damage to property belonging to,
or held in trust by, or in the
custody or control of, the
person(s) insured
2. damage to any vehicle being
driven or used by a person
insured or to property being
conveyed by such vehicle
3. any person other than you if such
person is insured under another
motor insurance policy
4. death or bodily injury to any
person arising out of or in the
course of their employment
except to the extent required by
Road Traffic Act legislation of the
country in which the incident
occurred
5. death or bodily injury to any
person driving, or in charge for
the purpose of driving the car.

That describes exceptions from third party cover.

Now, assuming my situation is the same as OP's. (my wife is a named driver on my policy, and she has her own policy on her own car covering her third party to drive other cars).
Does the point 3, mean that if she will cause an accident while driving my car, and cause damage to third party, my insurance would not pay for such damage (even she is a named driver) because she is insured under her own policy to drive other cars, so her own policy covers her to drive my car giving her third party cover.

I would think so, as point 3 says my policy will not cover her, if she is insured under any other policy.

MugMugs

You've taken that out of its context. What's section 1

CiniO

MugMugs wrote: »

You've taken that out of its context. What's section 1

Third party cover.

Fishtits

Your wife had an accident.

She was deemed to be at fault.

The insurance Co paid out as a result.

Your wife's risk profile has risen as a result of the accident.

All other related insurance policies will rise in cost to reflect this new risk.

Whats the problem?

PS insurance companies are like banks... only ten times worse, they write their own laws.

TripleAce

By any chance could somebody please point me to a source that describes the difference between:

- Dual Indemnity agreement
and
- Dual Indemnity NCD agreement

Thank you....

chrisblack

I'll keep an eye on this thread - I got similar issue here http://boards.ie/tre/2056427808 - although my NCB is fine as it's protected..

Chris

MugMugs

Fishtits wrote: »

Your wife had an accident.

She was deemed to be at fault.

The insurance Co paid out as a result.

Your wife's risk profile has risen as a result of the accident.

All other related insurance policies will rise in cost to reflect this new risk.

Whats the problem?

PS insurance companies are like banks... only ten times worse, they write their own laws.

Eh, No it rose because a claim has been made for 50% of the third party outlay.

The issue isn't the risk rising. It's the fact that policy has been called on.

Insurers are regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland or their home regulator. They do not write their own laws