Opinions on Chinese outsourcing

eth0

How do you feel about outsourcing of manufacturing and other jobs to China? I notice the Guhring who are announced they are closing their factory in Waterford also have a factory in Changzhou which is likely where the jobs will be going to next.

For a while now I try to avoid Chinese goods but depending on the product it can be a bit of a struggle to find something made elsewhere. That is not a good sign, just shows how dependent we have become. They are also mastering the art of planned obsolescense and making things last just long enough so you don't dismiss the product as inferior quality but still have to buy replacements fairly often.

Initially it was just outsourcing but recently a lot of indigenous Chinese companies have sprung up that are now selling stuff to us no doubt with a lot of help and inspiration from Western companies that outsourced there. A lot of these companies such as Huawei [known for USB mobile broadband dongles] and Lenovo are owned by the Chinese government and are ultimately controlled by the Communist Party. All while a lot of western manufacturing companies are simply shells of their former past and have been reduced to importers who tell a Chinese company to stick their logo on the product being imported.

The reason I don't like to buy Chinese products isn't just old fashioned protectionism but also the regime over there is one of the worst going (human rights, censorship, pollution, working conditions, etc) but getting off lightly because other countries are afraid of offending them and getting sanctions. Just look at how the US recently succumbed to Chinese pressure over fighter jets being sold to Taiwan.

Taiwan I don't mind buying stuff from so much, in fact I feel bad for them stuck on a tiny island next to the big mainland that claims to own them. I also realise that a lot of the stuff I used to buy from China I don't really need anyway and is simply Celtic Tiger style excess.

orourkeda

Thats the way of the world nowadays unfortunately. While it is never pleasant to be on the receiving end of something like this there'll always be someone who'll work for less

fran oconnor

I agree with and feel the very same as yourself on this matter, and try as much as i can to stay away from stuff thats made over there.

AnonoBoy

I'm a journalist and sometimes I outsource my articles to message boards.

horgan_p

Ah yes , but we ilish velly good at the sofware

fran oconnor

horgan_p wrote: »

Ah yes , but we ilish velly good at the sofware

And chicken balls

Saila

chinese, a great buch a lads

Badgermonkey

eth0 wrote: »

Taiwan....I feel bad for them stuck on a tiny island next to the big mainland that claims to own them.

Meanwhile, closer to home...

Saila

only thing its good for is cheaper goods all round

stovelid

Hate to see people losing their jobs but the sad fact is that nobody here cared for the countries we lured jobs away from when we were a cheap labour base.

Chuck Stone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9or2OwMdM8I

InkSlinger67

orourkeda wrote: »

Once they keep those trios coming then its all good

Nah, you'll need to explain that.

Especially after your insurance thanks-whoring comment earlier about one of the most disturbing news stories I've ever seen in my 32 years on this planet.

eth0

Domo230 wrote: »

Bad for us but can you blame people for trying to stay competitive

I dunno is it really the case of people wanting to stay competitive or just the Communist Party exploiting the people. Keeping the currency artificially worthless, ensuring a plentiful supply of peasants who don't mind working in crap conditions and so on

Saila wrote: »

only thing its good for is cheaper goods all round

but is it really cheaper once you consider the now unemployable underclass we now have to support as a result?

ScumLord

eth0 wrote: »

For a while now I try to avoid Chinese goods but depending on the product it can be a bit of a struggle to find something made elsewhere.

Even if you do find something manufactured or assembled in Europe or the US a sizeable proportion of it is probably Chinese parts, IE: screws, timber, rubber.

I don't think they're particularly good at manufacturing, I suppose you get what you pay for and they can just give you the finger if you don't like it.

China has no creative backbone either, I've seen Chinese that blame their education system, it turns them into educated and competent worker bees but commies the creativity out of them. There are numerous complaints against Chinese manufacturers making horribly basic errors and it's probably down to a lack of quality control and simply not understanding what their making.

Their problem is they lack the freedom to be creative like the west, we still need to design and test the products and then hand over manufacturing to the Chinese once all the kinks have been worked out.

Rented Mule

fran oconnor wrote: »

And chicken balls

...which isn't good news for the chicken.

Temptamperu

Saila wrote: »

only thing its good for is cheaper goods all round

Eh electronics will be no cheaper all that will be better is stock portfolios.

InTheTrees

I had to laugh at this thread because in the USA a lot of people consider the US companies setting up factories in Ireland as a kind of outsourcing.

So while I'm a US resident i'm in favour of out sourcing when it benefits Ireland.

conorhal

We've allowed corporatists to make a deal with the devil IMO.

Remember when we used to have a working class that actually worked?

These days we just have a working class that is subsidized with a basic minimum 'wage' for doing nothing in exchange for outsourcing their working class jobs to third world economies, just so that everybody can afford a cheap TV and iPhone.
It was a bad deal to make when you consider at what happens to a ‘working class’ with no available work, the recent rioting on the streets of London do not paint a pretty picture of our future.

And as for the treatment of the workers performing these outsourced jobs, if the Chinese aren't careful they're liable to face a communist revolution in that country ....or something..

alex73

Free market competition... its all about bottom dollar, profit.


Is it good... No.

TheZohanS

The consumer is to blame. If there wasn't a demand for cheaper goods made in china there wouldn't be cheaper goods made in china. Irish people would, and do, buy directly from China when they get a chance. Then when we lose our jobs to Chinese manufacturing it's "boo hoo".

We only have ourselves to blame.

V_Moth

What the? Is it 1998 again?

I don't think the outsourcing of jobs to China is a real issue anymore. Of greater concern should be that jobs are being outsourced from China to places like North Korea, Burma and Cambodia. The main reason for this is that the Chinese economy is suffering quite badly from inflation - something that could well put a dent in any Irish economic recovery.

And that is before you look at the massive property bubble currently building up there...

Sky King

I LOVE getting stuff made in China! I got a quote from one irish company to make a part for 13k - the Chinese are now doing it for less than a third of that.

Me likey!

Their engineers are cappers though, you need to be very precise about what you want and double check everything.

4leto

V_Moth wrote: »

What the? Is it 1998 again?

I don't think the outsourcing of jobs to China is a real issue anymore. Of greater concern should be that jobs are being outsourced from China to places like North Korea, Burma and Cambodia. The main reason for this is that the Chinese economy is suffering quite badly from inflation - something that could well put a dent in any Irish economic recovery.

And that is before you look at the massive property bubble currently building up there...

I think this is the most significant economic trend going on in the world but its complex, its actually popping at the moment as the Chinese government are restricting money to battle inflation. So developers are experiencing a credit crunch. Also living conditions are rising so property prices will rise with that especially in cities as china is still experiencing a steep growth in urbanisation as they leave the country to enter cities for work. So investors in China have no other better options but to invest in property, there is no-where else for them put their money at the moment. So it will take off again.

But if it did go tits up, so would we all.

Geekness1234

Basically as long as the U.S doesn't try to forcefully value the Yaun/Renminbi,it will be grand.If it does and succeeds,they'll be manufacturing jobs stateside,as well as massive economic turmoil.

4leto

Geekness1234 wrote: »

Basically as long as the U.S doesn't try to forcefully value the Yaun/Renminbi,it will be grand.If it does and succeeds,they'll be manufacturing jobs stateside,as well as massive economic turmoil.

Or the Yanks don't devalue the dollar to much, which they are doing by printing to many of them. But they can't do that to much because China is still their source of credit which they need.

The world is really changing.

3ndahalfof6

sometimes your forced to buy stuff made in china, today I was forced to buy a product only made in china,

musth-ing pads, they can not be got any where else.

3ndahalfof6

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

sometimes your forced to buy stuff made in china, today I was forced to buy a product only made in china,

musth-ing pads, they can not be got any where else.

This is one of the main reasons why it's a bad idea to outsource, once China becomes the sole manufacturer of a sufficient number of products, they could decide to play hardball and up the prices suffuciently to screw consumers, but not enough to allow local companies to compete.

eth0

Deleted User wrote: »

This is one of the main reasons why it's a bad idea to outsource, once China becomes the sole manufacturer of a sufficient number of products, they could decide to play hardball and up the prices suffuciently to screw consumers, but not enough to allow local companies to compete.

Even if they pumped up the prices beyond that there is quite a bit of lag before people get up off their arses and set up their own factory

Geekness1234

eth0 wrote: »

Even if they pumped up the prices beyond that there is quite a bit of lag before people get up off their arses and set up their own factory

With government backing,I'd say it would be fairly sharpish.

Geekness1234

Geekness1234 wrote: »

With government backing,I'd say it would be fairly sharpish.

Depends on what is being manufactured, clothes pegs or similar a plant could be up and running within weeks.

Televisions etc, could take several years to design from scratch and set up production from scratch, those skills have been lost and will take years to reacquire!

Geekness1234

Deleted User wrote: »

Depends on what is being manufactured, clothes pegs or similar a plant could be up and running within weeks.

Televisions etc, could take several years to design from scratch and set up production from scratch, those skills have been lost and will take years to reacquire!

You forget that if it laxed immigration it could supplement shortages with foreign skilled workers.
Also a lot of specialized goods are assembled in China,while being made elsewhere.The ifamily (iPod etc) the parts are made in California,while assembled in China.

I just don't see Chinese workers working for the "opposition".

eth0

Geekness1234 wrote: »

.The ifamily (iPod etc) the parts are made in California,while assembled in China.

Really I thought they were just "designed in california" and made by Foxconn in China

by designed in california they probably mean 'design outsourced to indians by californians' though

nitromaster

Chinese outsourcing = good as millions of chinese people are involved in labor making products for foreign firms.

If this didn't exist, them = no jobs = no money...and well...that could cause problems for them trying to live :P

eth0

nitromaster wrote: »

Chinese outsourcing = good as millions of chinese people are involved in labor making products for foreign firms.

If this didn't exist, them = no jobs = no money...and well...that could cause problems for them trying to live :P

They survived away grand for thousands of years before the outsourcing trend and without communist oppression