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Grade separated crossings on the rail network

  • 17-10-2011 10:42pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 18,884 ✭✭✭✭ murphaph


    Can we please make a list of all GSJs on the Irish Rail network here please. I'll start the ball rolling with Glasnevin Junction....


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭✭ Greensout


    for what reason??...
    but, "Edermine Bridge"


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,571 newmug


    What IS a grade seperated crossing?


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,884 ✭✭✭✭ murphaph


    Greensout wrote: »
    for what reason??
    It just struck me today that there aren't very many!


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 61,016 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    newmug wrote: »
    What IS a grade seperated crossing?

    Where two railway lines cross over each other using a bridge or similar, rather than trackwork. There are very, very, very few in Ireland, as a whole even.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,884 ✭✭✭✭ murphaph


    newmug wrote: »
    What IS a grade seperated crossing?
    Where 2 or more railway lines meet without crossing (conflicting) each others paths.

    Howth Junction for example is a completely flat junction-trains going to Howth must block the Dublin bound (UP) line to do so.

    I should edit my own post as Glasnevin is not a full GSJ.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,884 ✭✭✭✭ murphaph


    Greensout wrote: »
    for what reason??...
    but, "Edermine Bridge"
    A google maps link perhaps? I don't know where that is.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,571 newmug


    What about that one (dunno what its name is) on the Maynooth - Connolly line, near Connolly station? You can see a line running underneath at right angles!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 560 Jehuty42


    I'd call that Ossory Road Junction if I had to name it, where the low line to Docklands/North Wall passes under the high line to Glasnevin/Connolly and the Northern line.

    Close to that there's also where the Northern line crosses over the MGWR line to North Wall(next to present day Crosbies Apartments)

    The Cork line crosses over a Bord na Mona railway at some point.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,884 ✭✭✭✭ murphaph


    Do we have any GSJs where trains can branch on and off a mainline without fouling that same mainline?


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,777 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer


    murphaph wrote: »
    Do we have any GSJs where trains can branch on and off a mainline without fouling that same mainline?

    There are none on the Irish Rail network.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 560 Jehuty42


    murphaph wrote: »
    Do we have any GSJs where trains can branch on and off a mainline without fouling that same mainline?

    If DU is built, exactly that will be created at Inchicore.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,884 ✭✭✭✭ murphaph


    That's mad really, not a single one on the whole network.

    Any in NI? (probably even less likely)


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,777 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer


    That's where you would be wrong.

    Bleach Green Junction where the Derry line and the Larne Line part company is grade separated.

    It is the only grade separated railway junction in Ireland.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,777 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer


    murphaph wrote: »
    That's mad really, not a single one on the whole network.

    Any in NI? (probably even less likely)

    It isn't that mad when you consider that there are not that many double track junctions in the country (i.e. two double track lines joining together).

    The only locations on the Irish Rail network where there are double track junctions are:

    - Howth Junction (Howth Branch and GNR mainline)

    - Cobh Junction (Glounthaune) (Midleton and Cobh lines)

    - Islandbridge Junction (GSR mainline and line via Phoenix Park tunnel to Glasnevin Junction)

    - Glasnevin Junction (Double Junction - MGWR mainline to Sligo, MGWR line from Docklands, GSR line to Heuston and GSR line from Drumcondra)

    - Junctions around Connolly Station:
    1) Ossory Road Junction (GNR suburban lines and line to Drumcondra)

    2) Suburban Junction (GNR mainline and GNR suburban lines)

    3) East Wall Junction (GNR mainline and freight line from Church Road Junction (coming up along West Road))

    4) North Strand Junction (Line from Connolly to Drumcondra and GSR freight line from Church Road Junction)

    5) Church Road Junction (Double Junction) (MGWR freight line from Glasnevin Junction, GSR freight line from North Strand Junction and GNR freight line from East Wall Junction and the entrance to North Wall yard).

    Most of these either do not have the space to fit or traffic to warrant a grade separated junction.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,884 ✭✭✭✭ murphaph


    The Maynooth train regularly has to wait to enter Connolly because of a northbound DART. Should definitely be a GSJ there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,777 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer


    There are more than likely space issues there - it isn't as straightforward as you might suggest.

    Bear in mind that there are two sets of double track running lines going into Connolly, over bridges as it is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,884 ✭✭✭✭ murphaph


    Possibly, but I wonder have IE ever seriously looked at the possibility....


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,777 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer


    Given it is the biggest bottleneck location on the network (and indeed one of the raisons d'etre for DART Underground) I would imagine they have. There really isn't any space - look at the satellite on googlemaps and you will see what I mean.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,884 ✭✭✭✭ murphaph


    lxflyer wrote: »
    (and indeed one of the raisons d'etre for DART Underground)
    ...possibly a reason not to do it, same as they refuse to use the PPT to run Kildare trains in to Docklands.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,777 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer


    murphaph wrote: »
    ...possibly a reason not to do it, same as they refuse to use the PPT to run Kildare trains in to Docklands.

    To be honest the length of time that a train would take to get from Islandbridge Junction to Docklands (assuming a connection were installed at Glasnevin Junction to allow it to happen), and the onward journey from there to the city centre/south city CBD by bus/foot would I suspect take longer than the current time taken using the 145 bus or LUAS from Heuston.

    If the trains were going across to Pearse I think it would be a different matter, but Docklands is pretty useless to most people (as evidenced by the low usage of that station as it is) unless they work in the IFSC, and I suspect the majority of Kildare line users don't!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,884 ✭✭✭✭ murphaph


    lxflyer wrote: »
    If the trains were going across to Pearse I think it would be a different matter, but Docklands if pretty useless to most people (as evidenced by the low usage of that station as it is) unless they work in the IFSC, and I suspect the majority of Kildare line users don't!
    I wonder why they built it at all. It's a shame IE didn't own the land to the south of Docklands Station so they could have built it almost adjacent to the footbridge over the river....oh wait, they did own that land.

    IE don't actually know how to run a railway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭ sdanseo


    murphaph wrote: »
    Where 2 or more railway lines meet without crossing (conflicting) each others paths.

    Howth Junction for example is a completely flat junction-trains going to Howth must block the Dublin bound (UP) line to do so.

    I should edit my own post as Glasnevin is not a full GSJ.

    Howth junction is a junction, not a point where lines cross each other. Otherwise every set of points is a junction.

    The only at-grade crossing of lines in the country is Limerick Junction.

    As for GSC's - the Northern Line crosses numerous other tracks on its way out of Connolly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,777 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer


    sdeire wrote: »
    Howth junction is a junction, not a point where lines cross each other. Otherwise every set of points is a junction.

    The only at-grade crossing of lines in the country is Limerick Junction.

    As for GSC's - the Northern Line crosses numerous other tracks on its way out of Connolly.

    I think the OP meant junctions rather than crossings...


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,575 ✭✭✭✭ A Dub in Glasgo


    Having a grade separated junction is great for passing traffic but is is not so great for capital and maintenance cost. There are compromises in every field and having conflicting junctions might be the one that keeps them open.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,107 John R


    sdeire wrote: »
    Howth junction is a junction, not a point where lines cross each other. Otherwise every set of points is a junction.

    The only at-grade crossing of lines in the country is Limerick Junction.

    Rail-rail crossings are very rare, there is only 1 left in the entire UK network, it is far more common to have crossings grade seperated both with and without connections. What is more unusual is for these crossings to have the multiple spurs necessary to allow two-way conflict free routes.
    sdeire wrote: »
    As for GSC's - the Northern Line crosses numerous other tracks on its way out of Connolly.

    Only some have connections and no route has conflict-free movement in both directions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭ strassenwo!f


    One place where grade separation would be a good idea in future plans is for the connection between the Northern line and the proposed interconnector. However, from my recollection, this is not part of the plan.


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