RWC 2011 - Too easy for the ABs?

BraziliaNZ

Hi all. Just was thinking about this. In reality NZ had only to beat one top team so far - Australia - and now have a poor French team in the final, which is practically a gimme, the French don't have it in them to do it again in this WC. It's not really much of a competition is it? I was hoping there'd be better challengers against the ABs but alas no.

SARZY

Its not over just yet.

The biggest chokers in sport are about to meet the most unpredictable team in sport.

castie

SARZY wrote: »

Its not over just yet.

The biggest chokers in sport are about to meet the most unpredictable team in sport.

true that!

Fishooks12

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Hi all. Just was thinking about this. In reality NZ had only to beat one top team so far - Australia - and now have a poor French team in the final, which is practically a gimme, the French don't have it in them to do it again in this WC. It's not really much of a competition is it? I was hoping there'd be better challengers against the ABs but alas no.

First off they weren't too convincing against Argentina

Secondly the French can scrum and thirdly on their day they can beat any team in the world

You show a basic lack of knowledge of the game if you think this French team don't have it in them. They have some of the best players in the World in Yachvilli, Harinorduqoy and William Servat.

This is going to be a lot closer than some people predict if France turn up, and I think they will given it will be the biggest game of their lives. NZ should probably have enough but I reckon it will be a cracking game and certainly "not much of a competition"

BraziliaNZ

Fishooks12 wrote: »

First off they weren't too convincing against Argentina

Secondly the French can scrum and thirdly on their day they can beat any team in the world

You show a basic lack of knowledge of the game if you think this French team don't have it in them. They have some of the best players in the World in Yachvilli, Harinorduqoy and William Servat.

This is going to be a lot closer than some people predict if France turn up, and I think they will given it will be the biggest game of their lives. NZ should probably have enough but I reckon it will be a cracking game and certainly "not much of a competition"

Yes it's true, I don't have much knowledge, but I do know that Argentina never make it easy for anyone. After seeing France against Wales and the ABs in the groups, they just don't look like much good at all.

CatFromHue

Well they haven't won yet!

In fairness to NZ they have beaten teams ranked 4th, 9th, and 2nd in the world before the tournament started. Considering SA didn't beat a team in the top 6 in 2007 this is a far more difficult route to the final on paper.

Regarding the French not having it them, they don't. They have good players yes but they've almost be getting worse and worse as the tournament went on.

Fishooks12

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Yes it's true, I don't have much knowledge, but I do know that Argentina never make it easy for anyone. After seeing France against Wales and the ABs in the groups, they just don't look like much good at all.

Argentina and France have one thing in common that Australia lacked, a scrum.

The kiwis won't be on the Front foot as much and France have the attacking potential and fitness(with the exception of Mermoz) that the Argentinians lacked in the quarter

fatboypee

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Argentina and France have one thing in common that Australia lacked, a scrum.

The kiwis won't be on the Front foot as much and France have the attacking potential and fitness(with the exception of Mermoz) that the Argentinians lacked in the quarter

I fully agree here. NZ outplayed Aus by playing a Northern Hemisphere game and preventing possession and quick ball. They won't be able to do anything but play the same against France who IMHO have an exceptional ability at scrum time.
NZ may find themselves in a world of pain in the forwards, especially given the intensity of Sunday.

But in my view, it will come down to the referee. If he, like the ref in the semi allows NZ to utterly and blatantly CHEAT by forever being on the wrong side of the ruck and not rolling away then NZ will win a tight game. If he's gonna man-up and deal with it, I'm not so sure NZ will be anywhere near as composed and France could well scupper them..

davegrohl48

If France have a first half like they had against England I expect them to have a chance of winning
- They have a good scrum I expect parity there (Aus didn't have)
- They have a mobile 6 as well as 7 (Aus only had 7, Elsom has looked shook in this tournament something seemed off with him)
- They have a mobile ball playing lock in Nallet
- They have centres Mermoz/Rougerie who can stop up Nonu not too badly on the gainline, they did an okay job on containing Tuilagi to some degree.
- They have a superior 8 in Harinordoquy than Samo
- They have one of the best livewires in Medard
- Their kicking of penalties % has been good
I don't expect Weepu to cut France open. We've had two games now where he has had most the posession and only managed 1 try per game with him playing. He's easy to read, he rarely line breaks and his recipient is obvious.
Weepu won't have as many penalties, at scrum and breakdown France will compete better.

Riskymove

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Hi all. Just was thinking about this. In reality NZ had only to beat one top team so far - Australia - and now have a poor French team in the final, which is practically a gimme, the French don't have it in them to do it again in this WC. It's not really much of a competition is it? I was hoping there'd be better challengers against the ABs but alas no.

its actually quite similar to 2007

SA won without having to face another top southern hemisphere team

they ended up facing England in the final who they had already hammered in the Pool stage

NZ lost to France (who could only manage second in pool behing argies) in QF; france then played awful against England in semi - England beat Aussies (poor perfromance that day) in QF

these things happen in knock-out rugby

SA's path to the tile was:

Beat England, USA, Russia and Tonga in groups

Then QF - Fiji
SF - Argentina
F England

Fishooks12

davegrohl48 wrote: »

If France have a first half like they had against England I expect them to have a chance of winning
- They have a good scrum I expect parity there (Aus didn't have)
- They have a mobile 6 as well as 7 (Aus only had 7, Elsom has looked shook in this tournament something seemed off with him)
- They have a mobile ball playing lock in Nallet
- They have centres Mermoz/Rougerie who can stop up Nonu not too badly on the gainline, they did an okay job on containing Tuilagi to some degree.
- They have a superior 8 in Harinordoquy than Samo Reid
- They have one of the best livewires in Medard
- Their kicking of penalties % has been good
I don't expect Weepu to cut France open. We've had two games now where he has had most the posession and only managed 1 try per game with him playing. He's easy to read, he rarely line breaks and his recipient is obvious.
Weepu won't have as many penalties, at scrum and breakdown France will compete better.

FYP

andrewdcs

Thnik it was discussed before but a HC style "ladder" where the points from the group stages put all teams into a league, then top plays bottom, second from top second from bottom etc.

Means that every point in every game means something, and that none of the matchups are decided until the last ball is kicked. Totally impractical on an organizational basis for touring fans though.

I do think they need to modify the format though, just not 100% sure how.

davegrohl48

Close enough between Harinordoquy and Reid. But yes, would probably still favour Harinordoquy.
They don't have anyone who can shudder yer timbers like Kaino though. The man is hewn out of granite.

Fishooks12

pickarooney wrote: »

I think he was making the point that France should provide a better man-for-man line-up for the final than Australia did for the semi.

Ah I see, thanks

GerM

It's a final and as such I can't see either side winning by any great margin. Obviously, NZ are massive favourites but France will absolutely put their bodies on the line. Guys like Dusautoir and Rougerie are heroic defenders when their backs are to the wall and if France can get within touching distance, anything can happen. If France can get anywhere near parity at the breakdown and NZ have an off day with the boot again, who knows? There's so many ifs that it makes it wholly unlikely but I hope it's a close contest. Joubert showed in the semi-final that he's not afraid to penalise McCaw although he could have whistled him more than the one time he did. Delighted Owens didn't get the final after the way he officiated the quarter final.

endabob1

Joubert has been excellent in this RWC, delighted that he got the final. Owens is generally my #1 ref in the world but as you say he f--ked up the quarter so it was going to be Rolland or Joubert & after the controversy it was always Joubert.

Fishooks12

I was hoping they would give it to Rolland given the controversy arose over an IRB directive he followed to the letter of the law, it would have been a huge vote of confidence

Needless to say Joubert will do a good job, him and Rolland are head and shoulders above the rest

Thankfully Owens won't be near it

corny

I like Joubert and he deserves the final but he does allow a lot at the breakdown in comparison to Rolland for example. This suits the NZ'ers down to the ground. Don't get me wrong they don't go out to cheat, or at least i don't think they do, the give everything to the breakdown and play right on the edge of the rules. For me, they break them far too often and a referee who gives them leeway gives them a great advantage.

Might not be too great of an advantage though if the French reproduce 2007's gameplan - actively refuse to play rugby, kick everything and put in 160 tackles. Its worked before!

Paparazzo

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I was hoping they would give it to Rolland given the controversy arose over an IRB directive he followed to the letter of the law, it would have been a huge vote of confidence

I reckon they didn't because the British press would be focusing more on the Rolland's decisions than the actual game

Digifriendly

I don't subscribe to view that France will get near parity up front. NZ will suffocate them up front maybe not as much as against Australia but enough nevertheless. Home advantage will also be a factor and if NZ had been playing a 14 man Wales for 60 minites they would have won by a considerable margin. France remind me of England 2007 - physical and battlers no doubt but very limited and this will be seen on Sunday.

handsomecake

nz's #8's name is spelled " read".