A quern stone query.

osprey

A find in bog area of our land. Happened across what we assume is a quern stone. What struck us was the fact that the wooden pin that locates in the centre hole is very well preserved. Is this the top half or bottom half? Does it belong in a museum of sorts?

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2540404473326&set=a.2538023573805.141177.1350099270&type=3&theater

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2540405233345&set=a.2538023573805.141177.1350099270&type=3&theater

marknine

osprey wrote: »

A find in bog area of our land. Happened across what we assume is a quern stone. What struck us was the fact that the wooden pin that locates in the centre hole is very well preserved. Is this the top half or bottom half? Does it belong in a museum of sorts?

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2540404473326&set=a.2538023573805.141177.1350099270&type=3&theater

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2540405233345&set=a.2538023573805.141177.1350099270&type=3&theater

I'm not an archaeologist, but to me it looks like the bottem half as it is a covex shape (or looks covex in photo) Definetly should be in a museum as they will be ale to date the object.. I'm so jealous. Fantastic object.

Cailleachdubh

Can you get a picture of it in profile? It looks like the top side is convex and the inside/articular surface is flat, so more like a top stone.

More importantly, when was this found? If in the last few days and the wood hasn't dried out yet, you need to keep the wooden pin moist by keeping it immersed in bog water (in a bag/bottle etc). If it dries out it'll crack and will be more difficult to analyse, if the museum wishes to carry out further tests on it.

Try and get some bog water if you can, not tap water. But if the pin has dried out completely, don't immerse it in water. It doesn't look too dry in the photos but you didn't say when these were taken.

Oh yeah, and you will need to report it to your local museum or the National Museum. They may attempt to date it, though dating quern stones is generally easier said than done as their morphology doesn't tend to change much over long periods of time.

Take note of the exact position and location you found it in as the museum will need this for their records. Really, you shouldn't have removed it from the bog, but maybe the circumstances dictated that it couldn't be helped at the time...?!

marknine

Cailleachdubh wrote: »

Can you get a picture of it in profile? It looks like the top side is convex and the inside/articular surface is flat, so more like a top stone.

More importantly, when was this found? If in the last few days and the wood hasn't dried out yet, you need to keep the wooden pin moist by keeping it immersed in bog water (in a bag/bottle etc). If it dries out it'll crack and will be more difficult to analyse, if the museum wishes to carry out further tests on it.

Try and get some bog water if you can, not tap water. But if the pin has dried out completely, don't immerse it in water. It doesn't look too dry in the photos but you didn't say when these were taken.

Oh yeah, and you will need to report it to your local museum or the National Museum. They may attempt to date it, though dating quern stones is generally easier said than done as their morphology doesn't tend to change much over long periods of time.

Take note of the exact position and location you found it in as the museum will need this for their records. Really, you shouldn't have removed it from the bog, but maybe the circumstances dictated that it couldn't be helped at the time...?!

OMG Very good points. I agree totaly

osprey

Great points raised. So, I have forwarded an email to the National Museum at Turlough, Castlebar. As for the preservation of the wooden pin, that was taken care of within an hour of finding it. I photographed the area around the quern fully before extracting it, unfortunately the situation dictated that it had to be removed. I hope that the response from Turlough is pretty swift, this is a new one on me so I hope I have contacted the right people? Funnily enough my first thought was 'get it mentioned on boards.ie' that seems to have been successful. The object was found in the last 48 hrs.
Thanks for taking note too.

Cailleachdubh

Cool, well done.

The museum in Turlough will advise you on what you should do next anyway. They might ask you to call in someday with the items so that they can get more details on them.

I'd be interested to hear what they say regarding dating and conservation, so will you keep us updated? Any preserved organics from wetlands have so much potential to be interesting...!

ps I think most top rotary quern stones usually have a second perforation (between the central perforation and the edge) in which a stick is inserted to rotate the quern by hand. I don't see one on this stone... So it could be the bottom. The bottom stone can be concave if is is designed to sit into a hollow in the ground/floor (which steadies it). Anyway, all will be revealed when you talk to the museum!

osprey

Got a response from Turlough today via email. They are excited about the find, moreover in light of the wooden pin. They are even going to send someone to come out and view the find itself. I'll keep you informed.

marknine

osprey wrote: »

Got a response from Turlough today via email. They are excited about the find, moreover in light of the wooden pin. They are even going to send someone to come out and view the find itself. I'll keep you informed.

Thats fantastic. Please keep us informed. Good luck.:)

Cailleachdubh

That's very exciting! I would have thought the pin would be of interest alright...

osprey

My apologies for keeping you waiting here, but I am pretty disappointed in the museums follow up. As I mentioned above, got a positive email response but as of yet, nothing more. Not even a call? A week or so has passed. What to do ....

Cailleachdubh

Hmm. I suppose their view might be that it's not an immediate concern, as it appears to be in good hands and they have been made aware of its presence.

Museums are pretty slow-moving places in general, and time seems to stand still in them with regard to acquiring new artefacts as well as caring for the old ones.

They are generally pretty short-staffed (especially when it comes to experts who would be capable of identifying or advising on objects that have recently come out of the ground!).

It must be frustrating to have to wait. As the Castlebar museum is one of the National Museums, they may have shared staff in other parts of the country (ie Dublin), which might explain the slight delay in dealing with your find.

But I would say it has more to do with short-staffing, a backlog of work and possibly the fact that they don't consider the object to be in immediate danger.

osprey

Cailleachdubh wrote: »

Hmm. I suppose their view might be that it's not an immediate concern, as it appears to be in good hands and they have been made aware of its presence.

Museums are pretty slow-moving places in general, and time seems to stand still in them with regard to acquiring new artefacts as well as caring for the old ones.

They are generally pretty short-staffed (especially when it comes to experts who would be capable of identifying or advising on objects that have recently come out of the ground!).

It must be frustrating to have to wait. As the Castlebar museum is one of the National Museums, they may have shared staff in other parts of the country (ie Dublin), which might explain the slight delay in dealing with your find.

But I would say it has more to do with short-staffing, a backlog of work and possibly the fact that they don't consider the object to be in immediate danger.

Great news, their curator Clodagh Doyle was in contact today twice. She is rather excited about the pin and they, the national museum, wish to see the find as soon as possible. We are exchanging a couple of emails and Getting things moving.

slowburner

Presumably the pin is oak? Hopefully you will keep us updated on this - it's fascinating
Have you used the OSI map viewer to see what might have been in the location of the find, assuming the quernstone wasn't moved at some time?
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,591271,743300,0,10

osprey

Hi all, well since the last post I made, we've taken the stone and pin to the National Heritage Museum for closer inspection and to the Heritage Centre in Westport. All parties confirmed the pin is oak. They are thoroughly impressed with the level of preservation. The pins are very rare. I was expecting still to hear back from either party about getting this on display for others. I mentioned it when we met and that I'd be quite happy to hand it over ..... still no response? Thanks for the info about the osi maps, interesting, got a few questions asked and answered locally. No conclusions arrived at yet.