Sealed CH system topped up by cold feed from Cold water tank?

Blondini

As the title says it appears the sealed system in my mother's house (approx 6 years old) is to be topped in this way.

There is no filling loop from the mains as I expected and also I can not find a pressure guage anywhere? Is this an ok scenario for filling?

Thanks.

JohnnieK

Blondini wrote: »

As the title says it appears the sealed system in my mother's house (approx 6 years old) is to be topped in this way.

There is no filling loop from the mains as I expected and also I can not find a pressure guage anywhere? Is this an ok scenario for filling?

Thanks.

In essence yes. It's called a semi-sealed system. I would be worried about the pressure gauge. Is there one located around the boiler? There should be one and a pressure relief valve on any sealed system.

DGOBS

Semi-sealed, in Irish 'invention' that makes my blood boil

One non return valve between the ch system and domestic water storage, I have come across many where the nr valve is passing, and effectively people are washing and brushing their teeth with water that is contaminated, this practice should be outlawed and any plumber who does it runs the risk of poisoning a household with chemicals like inhibitor, but then again most plumbers who did this kind of thing didn't even inhibit they system either!

The only justification for this type of system is to cover/mask any possible water leaks on a system

Outkast_IRE

DGOBS wrote: »

Semi-sealed, in Irish 'invention' that makes my blood boil

One non return valve between the ch system and domestic water storage, I have come across many where the nr valve is passing, and effectively people are washing and brushing their teeth with water that is contaminated, this practice should be outlawed and any plumber who does it runs the risk of poisoning a household with chemicals like inhibitor, but then again most plumbers who did this kind of thing didn't even inhibit they system either!

The only justification for this type of system is to cover/mask any possible water leaks on a system

To me a semi sealed system would retain its own tank in the attic , the only possible area for heating water to mix with domestic water is if the cylinder coil develops a pinhole or something like that .

Is this done differently up the country or something as i have only ever seen semi sealed systems with their own top up tank .

And the comment about using it to hide leaks is painting it all with the one brush often systems are made semi sealed when a new boiler is going in but no retrofiting of pipework is wanted and installing a fully sealed system on old pipework could potentially casue more issues which isnt what a lot of folks want with money being tight for all concerned.

JohnnieK

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

To me a semi sealed system would retain its own tank in the attic , the only possible area for heating water to mix with domestic water is if the cylinder coil develops a pinhole or something like that .

Is this done differently up the country or something as i have only ever seen semi sealed systems with their own top up tank .

And the comment about using it to hide leaks is painting it all with the one brush often systems are made semi sealed when a new boiler is going in but no retrofiting of pipework is wanted and installing a fully sealed system on old pipework could potentially casue more issues which isnt what a lot of folks want with money being tight for all concerned.

There are hundreds of estates around me where the feed has been taken from the main storage cistern. Some have even been teed into the cold feed in the hot press. Main problems are the non-return valves are stuck and allowing expansion and contraction of the heating water up to the tank and brining fresh (hard water) back down into the system. A lot of boilers in poor condition because of this. I tend to seal them completely after working on them. Desperate water over here.

Outkast_IRE

JohnnieK wrote: »

There are hundreds of estates around me where the feed has been taken from the main storage cistern. Some have even been teed into the cold feed in the hot press. Main problems are the non-return valves are stuck and allowing expansion and contraction of the heating water up to the tank and brining fresh (hard water) back down into the system. A lot of boilers in poor condition because of this. I tend to seal them completely after working on them. Desperate water over here.

Good to know , i have never seen it down cork yet anyway, very dodgy carryon altogether.

DGOBS

Yes, seems to be the done thing in Dublin and surrounding counties

I do understand having semi sealed with a filler tank on older systems, all these houses are less that 15 years old!

Outkast_IRE

One of the worst things i have seen down this way is a estate with solar done in qualpex

Semi-sealed system serve no purpose, the system is either open vented or not and there are perfectly good designs for both, the reasons I hate them is 1) low pressure switchs are cut out of the boiler, 2)there should be no valve between the tank and the boiler 3) cross-contamination, 4) harder to do than fitting a filling loop, 5) made a complete prat of me when I first saw one and I didn't know what it was:o

Outkast_IRE

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

One of the worst things i have seen down this way is a estate with solar done in qualpex

What's the risk there with this weather:)

There is a big block of appartments in Cork that have all the terminals on a flat roof boxed in with only one side open so they can suck in their own juices:eek:

gdavis

also,i have found on more than one occassion that if u drain down some of these systems for whatever reason,when filling back up the pressure is too low and i have to either back fill through mains or pump water in with test pump to clear air locks or get pressure up to minimum that allows boiler to fire

Outkast_IRE

gdavis wrote: »

also,i have found on more than one occassion that if u drain down some of these systems for whatever reason,when filling back up the pressure is too low and i have to either back fill through mains or pump water in with test pump to clear air locks or get pressure up to minimum that allows boiler to fire

Well the non return valves and feed actually tend tend to airlock after a draindown , usually opening the joint under and above the non return valve to clear the air helps .

gdavis

im referring to when there simply is not enough pressure from tank to pressurise the system,i know for a fact that some of these systems were backfilled through mains on initial installation as it was known to installer that tank would not do the job but they didnt care as it would not be their problem down the line

DGOBS

no, don't do that, use the opportunity to rectify and fit a bloody filling loop!
(oh, and don't forget to remove and blank in when finished, seems that is also a 'forgotten water bylaw' in Ireland)

Outkast_IRE

gdavis wrote: »

im referring to when there simply is not enough pressure from tank to pressurise the system,i know for a fact that some of these systems were backfilled through mains on initial installation as it was known to installer that tank would not do the job but they didnt care as it would not be their problem down the line

ya well thats brutal bad practice again , i wouldnt fit a boiler in a semi sealed system that had to be pressurised to a certain level.
Im in the horrors here hearing your stories , i must be living a very sheltered existance here in cork , luckily i have encountered very little brutal work over the years.

gdavis

dgobs, sometimes u come across people who think u are out to make a quick buck and u get the "there was nothing wrong with it before u drained it" line,so personally i will advise people and suggest putting in filler loop from mains but i am not there to be accused of that and therefore dont need it and put back system as it was and be on my merry way

DGOBS

Not saying you done anything wrong, but my advise to a customer will always be upfront and proper, if it's wrong, it's wrong, and will always tell them so, and empower them with choice.

To me 'tell it as it is' is always the best option, and I am finding these days customers are better informed, due to debates such as this, and for the most part I find them receptive and as long as works are not too costly and do improve their heating systems most are willing where funds allow

You anything to Mdavis or Ddavis? Skerries?

gdavis

no relation,u anything to do with a certain building where courses are provided in the midlands?????? lol

DGOBS

I can neither confirm nor deny this........am I that obvious!

gdavis

pm sent lol

gdavis

gdavis wrote: »

dgobs, sometimes u come across people who think u are out to make a quick buck and u get the "there was nothing wrong with it before u drained it" line,so personally i will advise people and suggest putting in filler loop from mains but i am not there to be accused of that and therefore dont need it and put back system as it was and be on my merry way

Your working in a profession where people think if your lips are moving then your lying:D I think if we all stick to good working practise and say it as it is then we can lose that cowboy tag, I love the fact someone can pay €2/3000 on a heating system then get told by the installer "their's your boiler, their's your roomstat, I'v set them so don't touch anything":pac:

DGOBS

DGOBS wrote: »

I can neither confirm nor deny this........am I that obvious!

:pac::pac::pac:

DGOBS

Sadder still is that even though it's sunday night and we are going be working all hours at this all week, we still sit here debating it....think we all need some golf or something!

DGOBS

DGOBS wrote: »

Sadder still is that even though it's sunday night and we are going be working all hours at this all week, we still sit here debating it....think we all need some golf or something!

I'm hoping if I don't go to bed Monday won't come.