Origin terms of service

hare05

There have been some tbh frightening things EA has hidden away in their agreements, including terms that would cancel your license of a game on Origin should you not play it for a while (a long while, admittedly, but still a step in the wrong direction...).

So what I've done is signed up to an EA account and contacted customer support. I have left this message.

"If I am to purchase a game through Origin or EA's previous online stores, is there any way that I may lose access to that game outside of personally closing my account or having said account closed due to personal actions violating terms of agreement?

Please give a precise answer and list all other possible ways a game may become permanently inaccessible to me. The answer will be referred to should I ever consider purchasing an EA game and shall also be referenced in the event that I am denied access to my games by means other than those listed."
Incident number 111015-003384

I will pop back here with the answer and screenshots if I receive an answer at all. Regardless of what it is, I will distribute it. If EA deny that games can be taken from me in their answer, that should serve as evidence of false advertising should I ever lose my games to those terms in the EULA. If they reference those terms to me, I will stop buying EA and post the reply on Reddit.

Legally or morally, if we all ask similar precise questions about this and take action to create bad press for the EULA, we should be able to pressure them into changing it. Same as the recent changes to their plans to sell personal info.

Anyone think this is a good idea?

Edit1: Wasn't sure I'd get a reply so I went to live chat. Will post the log.

hare05

Chat over, here's the transcript:

Hi, my name is Ayush. How may I help you?
Pat: hi
Pat: excuse me for the overly formal tone, but I feel it's best to be precise
Pat: If I am to purchase a game through Origin or EA's previous online stores, is there any way that I may lose access to that game outside of personally closing my account or having said account closed due to personal actions violating terms of agreement?

Please give a precise answer and list all other possible ways a game may become permanently inaccessible to me. The answer will be referred to should I ever consider purchasing an EA game and shall also be referenced in the event that I am denied access to my games by means other than those listed.
Ayush: May I know the exact issue you are facing at this movement.
Pat: the exact issue is the above. I am considering purchasing Battlefield 3 but will not do so unless I have a clear answer to the above.
Pat: if you need to call a manager, I'll be happy to wait
Ayush: May I know your account(E-mail)Id.
Pat: XXXXXXX@XXXX.com
Pat: my master account ID is XXXX, I believe
Ayush: Please allow me some time check it.
Pat: I'll be happy to wait
Ayush: Your account is seems to be okay from our side.
Ayush: Please share the screen with me.
Pat: my account is not the issue
Ayush: Question.
Ayush: Please allow this.
Ayush: And show me the error.
Pat: I am asking in advance of purchase about details in any and all license agreements between me and EA that would cause the loss of access to a game on my account
Pat: i believe that falls under violation inquiries
Ayush: No.
Ayush: Please try it again this time i am with you.
Ayush: Now we will fix the problem together.
Pat: Try what again?
Pat: the question I am asking is at the top of the log
Pat: "If I am to purchase a game through Origin or EA's previous online stores, is there any way that I may lose access to that game outside of personally closing my account or having said account closed due to personal actions violating terms of agreement?

Please give a precise answer and list all other possible ways a game may become permanently inaccessible to me. The answer will be referred to should I ever consider purchasing an EA game and shall also be referenced in the event that I am denied access to my games by means other than those listed."
Ayush: If you accept all the licence agreement then there is no problem
Ayush: "If I am to purchase a game through Origin or EA's previous online stores, is there any way that I may lose access to that game outside of personally closing my account or having said account closed due to personal actions violating terms of agreement?
Pat: i am asking if the above are the only ways in which I may lose access to a game on my account. In other words, if I purchase a game, is it available to me from the date of purchase until the date my account in it's entirety is closed.
Ayush: Then Please do one thing make Fixed EA account.
Pat: I'm sorry, you misunderstand. Could you please call a manager?
Ayush: i am asking if the above are the only ways in which I may lose access to a game on my account
Ayush: You want know that.
Pat: yes.
Ayush: If the game is registered with account which is banned after registering the game. then you will loose your game.
Pat: but if the account itself is not banned, a game can not be taken away from the account. Am I correct in saying this?
Ayush: Yes because one game can registered only one time.
Pat: What I mean is, EA can not remove games from a player's account. As in, if I purchase a game license, I hold that license until EA / Origin are no longer reasonably capable of operating as a business. Would this be correct?
Ayush: Yes.
Pat: I am asking if I will lose my games should EA decide to retire the Origin platform
Pat: Ok, thank you for alleviating my concerns.
Pat: May I get a reference number for this chat session?
Ayush: I am asking if I will lose my games should EA decide to retire the Origin platform - I have no idea about this.
Ayush: You will never loose the game.
Pat: Ok. Thank you.
Pat: May I have a reference number for this chat session?
Ayush: XXXXXXX
Ayush: Okay.
Pat Sweeney: thank you
Ayush: Is there anything else I can help you with today?
Pat: no that's everything. Thank you
Ayush: Okay.
Ayush: Bye.
Ayush: Take care.
'Pat' disconnected ('Concluded by End-user').

My personal details have been removed, including reference number. I may post it later if people actually do start having games disappear.

I understand she's low level customer support, but she's still a rep for the company and as such her word should be taken as the stance of the company. I may try this again tomorrow and see if I can get bumped to a manager or get the details of someone higher up and pressure them.

Regardless of how this goes, by the way EA have been responding to others I might just end up with a few free games for my efforts :pac: Everyone who has an EA game on their online account please flood the customer support with this issue. It's a serious one for anyone who likes to play older games, as if this tactic catches on, 'classic' gaming will have met it's death in 2011. Make them change the EULA. If direct pressure doesn't work, get statements from EA customer service and claim false advertising if and when they do start retiring their titles from YOUR account.

James74

Not that I think that this will ever happen... then again, nothing would surprise me where EA is concerned, I thought I'd see what response I would get, just because I'm a bit bored at the minute and craved 2 minutes of remote anonymous human interaction .

Andrew for EA was a little more direct than Ayush with his answer.

OP, apologies for shamelessly copying your question...

Andrew M.: Hi, my name is Andrew M.. How may I help you?
Andrew M.: Please take note of the following Chat ID: xxxxxxx. This will be very important if you happen to get disconnected anytime during this chat or need to refer back to this same issue. You can always get back in contact with Live Chat and give the next Agent your ID so you do not need to re-explain anything.
James: Hi Andrew, apologies for the formal tone, however I wish to be precise...
James: If I am to purchase a game through Origin or EA's previous online stores, is there any way that I may lose access to that game outside of personally closing my account or having said account closed due to personal actions violating terms of agreement?

Please give a precise answer and list all other possible ways a game may become permanently inaccessible to me. The answer will be referred to should I ever consider purchasing an EA game and shall also be referenced in the event that I am denied access to my games by means other than those listed.
Andrew M.: Not other than the ones you listed, unless you can't connect to the internet to download them.
James: Excellent, is the Chat ID above enough to refer to the content and details of this chat session, should I ever need to refer back to your answer?
Andrew M.: That, or the reference number you receive with the chat log after we disconnect.
James: Excellent, thanks for your help.
Andrew M.: Did you need anything else?
James: That's all I need, again thank you. Goodbye.
Andrew M.: Not a problem, and thank you for contacting Electronic Arts and for chatting with me and I was glad I was able to help you. You should be getting a survey in your e-mail for our chat and if you could fill that out it would be great. I will also be sending you an e-mail with the chat log in it. When you are ready, you can go ahead and press the disconnect button to exit the chat. Have a great day!

Andrew M. has disconnected.

hare05

It will happen. It's in the TOS. It may not happen for a year or two, but if they can sneak it by for a few years, other companies will add it to their TOS and we'll have lost another right. They're already scanning your pc for info to sell on (not just what programs you use, Origin was snooping in config files for Xfire, and no doubt will do so for Steam too. Blatantly illegal as they are required by law to provide an opt out), removing your right to class action for grievances and forcing you to accept arbitration on their terms (This tactic was used in the US to interfere with investigations into rape within an American company), and plenty more besides those.

This is the direction gaming is going in. Act now or watch the gamer culture die.

VinLieger

Next time your calling try asking them why a digital copy costs 20 euro more than a physical copy?

hare05

VinLieger wrote: »

Next time your calling try asking them why a digital copy costs 20 euro more than a physical copy?

For the same reason anything in a digital form costs a lot more than it should.

These are publishing companies at heart. Their strength has always been taking something obscure and making it abundant. If it were cheaper in general to shop online rather than in store, and the market moved that way en force, developers might (SHOCK! HORROR!) decide to go indie, as they can now reach said market without EA, etc. Valve were clever to cater to indie games in the way they did. When you think about it, the success of all phone software markets (iPhone app store, Android market) all depend on a system that Valve / Steam pioneered.

EA's attempt to disintegrate Steam's market by selling exclusively is obviously an attempt to cut out a middleman, but it's also an attempt to reduce the exposure indies on Steam, etc receive.

There are quite a few people over the next few months who won't log on to Steam every day as they are now forced to use Origin to play BF3, etc. Fair enough, no point in having it running if you're not currently playing games from it, but this way people will miss Steam sales, new releases.

Gunmonkey

Didnt they clarify this months ago that if your account is inactive for 2 years they move it from an active server to a backup server (no sense having an active slot on your servers clogged with accounts nobody has used for years). All you would do is contact customer support to have your account reactivated, with all your games, saves and such there ready to go.

Care to throw up the part of the ToS that details what you mentioned, since it sounds like the same section.

hare05

Gunmonkey wrote: »

Didnt they clarify this months ago that if your account is inactive for 2 years they move it from an active server to a backup server (no sense having an active slot on your servers clogged with accounts nobody has used for years). All you would do is contact customer support to have your account reactivated, with all your games, saves and such there ready to go.

Care to throw up the part of the ToS that details what you mentioned, since it sounds like the same section.

Didn't hear about that. It probably is, in that case. Still an annoyance though. I mean, Steam doesn't need to do that and their servers are hosting 4 million users online at this very moment!