End to poaching???

josh79

I was talking to a pal that shoots deer in the wicklow area. He said that himself and various other hunters around the area are now using the same cameras that the council use to catch"fly tippers". Over 2400 people have been prosecuted last year with these cameras.

These are remote High Def. CCTV cameras with covert nightvision that transmits the recordings via a wireless connection to a hard drive at another location or to a laptop at home!! They have the cameras on gates, in the wood and on the road.

These videos are then being used in court to prosecute these criminals with poaching, armed tresspassing and causing criminal damage along with reckless discharge of a firearm perhaps?

have the tables finally turned?:eek:

Grizzly 45

A start ,but not the end,but maybe the end of the beginning.

Yes they are great for catching people dumping,because the camera is covering a set area where the rubbish tip is located.However deer dont generally hang around an area where you can put the camera for a nice clear shot that will get the poacher,rifle,and car reg and jack light,shooting deer and retriving same all in one nice clean pic.
For it to be a valid piece of evidence,you will have to have them entering the property,their faces nice and clear,the car/truck reg will have to be clearly identifiable,with a firearm,shooting and leaving with a carcass.
Pretty tall order,especially with these cameras that do use active infra red light,which if they are scanning the place with a el cheapo lidil NV will pick up straightaway and it is still possible that you will have to give evidence against them in an open court.With all that this entails.:rolleyes:
Dont get me wrong its a good deterrent against the amatuer easy lazy game harvester ,but against a pro ,you will need alot more.

seoirse1980

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

A start ,but not the end,but maybe the end of the beginning.

Yes they are great for catching people dumping,because the camera is covering a set area where the rubbish tip is located.However deer dont generally hang around an area where you can put the camera for a nice clear shot that will get the poacher,rifle,and car reg and jack light,shooting deer and retriving same all in one nice clean pic.
For it to be a valid piece of evidence,you will have to have them entering the property,their faces nice and clear,the car/truck reg will have to be clearly identifiable,with a firearm,shooting and leaving with a carcass.
Pretty tall order,especially with these cameras that do use active infra red light,which if they are scanning the place with a el cheapo lidil NV will pick up straightaway and it is still possible that you will have to give evidence against them in an open court.With all that this entails.:rolleyes:
Dont get me wrong its a good deterrent against the amatuer easy lazy game harvester ,but against a pro ,you will need alot more.

There was a programme on tv3 about these cameras and they're opperations the other night. I think it was called caught on camera. The company that provided the cameras went to court and gave in the tape as evidence. I wonder would the npws take the case to court on the landowners behalf providing that there was enough incriminating evidence on the tape? I'm sure the poachers would pay all legal costs along with whatever other penalties..
Armed trespass would be enough I'm sure?

Perhaps people who have these cameras could put the pics up on boards?? Caught in the act thread???

bazza888

i can see that thread ending really well for boards and whoever posts the pictures!:rolleyes:

Spunk84

As Grizz says you need them entering with their faces visable,firing the gun at the animal, hitting the animal,takening the animal and leaving with the animal or you won't have a leg to stand on. Yea they can be done for trespass but that's it if you don't have the above. They really should come up with getting a wildlife police force, or Gards who deal with wildlife only but they won't LOL same old Ireland spend a pound to save a penny

Grizzly 45

QUOTE=seoirse1980;74939386]called caught on camera. The company that provided the cameras went to court and gave in the tape as evidence. I wonder would the npws take the case to court on the landowners behalf providing that there was enough incriminating evidence on the tape? I'm sure the poachers would pay all legal costs along with whatever other penalties..
Armed trespass would be enough I'm sure?
[/QUOTE]
Into alot of legal holes I'm afraid.Having done a few fly tipping surveillance investigations,I can tell you it is not easy to convict in some cases.
You do need clear footage and as you are doing this as a citizen ,the court will need you as a witness to back up the film. That would apply too if you were NPWS employee.Nor can a state body be it NPWS or Gardai take on a case for a landowner!! It has to be a crime comitted against the law of the land,not against the landowner.Otherwise we could use the Gaurds as our personal enforcers against any wrong against us .

Armed tresspass is another one of these legal minefields,and may or may not apply in all cases.

Also,the big question will be with this transmitted info and data!
It has been asked before courts about digital pictures and the possibility of enhancement or altering of digital media by computor experts. Back in the old days of chemical films this was alot harder to do than today.

So a good defence lawyer could argue that this media clip was alterd or photoshopped to put his client in this location or whatever.!!!!
And especially now that this was filmed remotely,and especially as you have a vested intrest[deer hunters] in seeing this innocent man being accused. So you are going to have to make sure that this is burnt straight onto a non erasable DVD or memory chip with a time date stamp,and immediately sealed and got into your solicitor[yes you will need one!] for safe keeping as evidence outof your hands.
Costs not necessarily either.If they get off free ,they are entitled to bring civil actions for damage against you and your group too!:eek::rolleyes:

Best still is witness and film in person.The cameras are an aid not a solution to the problem in this case.

Perhaps people who have these cameras could put the pics up on boards?? Caught in the act thread???

Hmm dont think so!!:eek:

seoirse1980

[QUOTE

Perhaps people who have these cameras could put the pics up on boards?? Caught in the act thread???[/QUOTE]

I didn't think i'd have to explain that was a joke

seoirse1980

I just had a look at one of these companies on the web. It seems the company go to court with a report and present the images to the court. I would assume that one would have to hire a solicitor to go to court also. A lot cheaper to do now than a few years ago. They record, like Grizzly says onto a sd card or similar. They can also offer a service to transmit the images to your pc or iphone so you can see when someones in the wood. So you can ring the Guards or rangers. If nothing I suppose it will let you know who is coming into your land or wood and perhaps give landowners something to go to the guards with so they can start an investigation.

I'm sure with the aid of this technology, the hunters, NPWS and the Gardai working together will have a better chance at securing convictions in the future.

It's unfortunate it's got to this stage where we have cameras everywhere, seems someones always watching but poaching has got completely out of control this year. So if these cameras and companies help well then good enough.

meathstevie

Grizzly what you're saying in a very descriptive way is the following : first of all you need the complete offence recorded and you also need to be able to prove the integrity and continuity of your evidence in court.

If you don't have those two the DPP most likely won't even run a case and what you have left is intelligence and that doesn't mean diddlysquat in a criminal case.

On the other hand, intelligence does build cases so as a detterent these cameras can be put to good use.

Grizzly 45

Got it in one MS!;):D:D

323

seoirse1980 wrote: »

I'm sure with the aid of this technology, the hunters, NPWS and the Gardai working together will have a better chance at securing convictions in the future.

Sounds great in theory, really hope you are right. But by all reports and personnal experiance in the North West - as far as commercial poaching of reds is concerned has been that the Gardai have little intrested, NPWS appear not to care at all.