Recommend a bike

Dr Nic

Hi Guys,
Been beating away on my 15 yr old raleigh mtb for ages. I only really do hour long road tours to keep up the fitness.
In future id like to maybe do Ballyhoura mountains but that would only be every now and again.

The thing that prompted me to think about changing is a mate has a Trek 4 series which i took for an hour on Tues. It was unreal! So smooth & light


So anyone recommend a bike?
Maybe a new one though bike to work?
Or a decent second hand hybrid off adverts? Trek 7.1 here...
http://www.adverts.ie/bikes/trek-hybrid/1020803

Tonyandthewhale

A hybrid won't last long on ballyhoura, get a mountain bike if you want to go mountain biking, buy a road bike if you want to ride on the roads. There's not really any reason to buy a hybrid IMO.
If you want a second hand bike look on the adverts sub-forum here, adverts.ie, done deal, gumtree and buy and sell. Mountain biking forums such as mad and epic.ie also have for sale sections as far as I know. Going second hand is a great way to get excellent value but you kind of need to know what you're looking at.
If you want us to reccommend a new bike we're going to need a budget.

clonmahon

Tonyandthewhale wrote: »

There's not really any reason to buy a hybrid IMO.

Not everyone who cycles is a competitive thrill seeking young leisure or sports cyclist. Some people use bikes as a means of transport, they go shopping, deliver kids to school, go to meetings and events, go to the pub, go for leisurely spins and go slow cycle touring. For all these kind of trips a hybrid bike is ideal.

A hybrid is much more comfortable to ride than a road bike and you can ride it wearing ordinary clothes. You can carry 15 or 16 kgs of cargo, or a child on a hybrid. For those with poorer bike handling skills a hybrid is a safer machine than a road bike, more stable and better braking.

In Ireland cycling is a sporting sub culture, in Holland it is a mainstream culture, a system of mass transit. All kinds of people of every age ride bikes every day in going about their everyday business. If you want a sporting bike get a mountain or road bike, but if you want a working machine for normal everyday travel buy a hybrid.

I am not suggesting that a hybrid will be ideal for Dr Nic, I'm just pointing out there are lots of good reasons to buy a hybrid, it depends on what you want.

SomeFool

Dr Nic wrote: »

I only really do hour long road tours to keep up the fitness.
In future id like to maybe do Ballyhoura mountains but that would only be every now and again.

There's not really any reason to buy a hybrid IMO.

clonmahon wrote: »

Not everyone who cycles is a competitive thrill seeking young leisure or sports cyclist.

To be fair the advice was applicable to the op. If you're going to spend an hour or more on a bike for fitness etc you're better off with a proper road bike. If I were in your shoes Dr Nic, I'd invest in a used road bike, great value to be had on the sites tony mentioned, and rent a MTB at Ballyhoura until you decide if mountain biking is going to be a more regular outing.

clonmahon

SomeFool wrote: »

To be fair the advice was applicable to the op. If you're going to spend an hour or more on a bike for fitness etc you're better off with a proper road bike. If I were in your shoes Dr Nic, I'd invest in a used road bike, great value to be had on the sites tony mentioned, and rent a MTB at Ballyhoura until you decide if mountain biking is going to be a more regular outing.

But what advantage does a road bike offer over a hybrid for 1 hour keep fit spins. The hybrids stability and comfort makes for a more pleasant spin. The better road holding and handling makes for a safer spin. I don't see the advantage of a road bike if you don't want to race.

Lumen

clonmahon wrote: »

But what advantage does a road bike offer over a hybrid for 1 hour keep fit spins.

More fun.

I agree with your earlier point about hybrids being good for lots of things, hourses for courses etc, although I've used drop bar bikes for pulling trailers full of kids, pottering round town, messing around in the snow, all sorts of very non-racing things. "Road bike" covers quite a lot of ground.

clonmahon

Lumen wrote: »

More fun.

I agree with your earlier point about hybrids being good for lots of things, hourses for courses etc, although I've used drop bar bikes for pulling trailers full of kids, pottering round town, messing around in the snow, all sorts of very non-racing things. "Road bike" covers quite a lot of ground.

Drops are much better than the flat handbars on a typical hybrid. I've spent long days cycling and never got sore hands with drops. If you are going to spend a long day on a machine with flat handlebars you need to watch you hand positions from early in the day, or they will be very sore after 12 hours.

Tonyandthewhale

clonmahon wrote: »

Not everyone who cycles is a competitive thrill seeking young leisure or sports cyclist. Some people use bikes as a means of transport, they go shopping, deliver kids to school, go to meetings and events, go to the pub, go for leisurely spins and go slow cycle touring. For all these kind of trips a hybrid bike is ideal.

A hybrid is much more comfortable to ride than a road bike and you can ride it wearing ordinary clothes. You can carry 15 or 16 kgs of cargo, or a child on a hybrid. For those with poorer bike handling skills a hybrid is a safer machine than a road bike, more stable and better braking.

In Ireland cycling is a sporting sub culture, in Holland it is a mainstream culture, a system of mass transit. All kinds of people of every age ride bikes every day in going about their everyday business. If you want a sporting bike get a mountain or road bike, but if you want a working machine for normal everyday travel buy a hybrid.

I am not suggesting that a hybrid will be ideal for Dr Nic, I'm just pointing out there are lots of good reasons to buy a hybrid, it depends on what you want.

A hybrid being much more comfortable to ride than a road bike is very much a matter of opinion and not an opinion I'd agree with. I also don't agree that a hybrid is safer if you've got poorer bike handling. A good road bike often feels more responsive than a heavier hybrid but they're not objectively harder to ride.
As for carrying loads, touring, pottering about or wearing ordinary clothes, those are all things you can do on a road bike, especially a cheaper entry level model with more relaxed positioning and mounts for a rack and mudguard.
Of course if you really want to carry loads and tour and such a touring bike is the optimum choice since it's a much more versatile platform than a hybrid, faster, more comfortable, sturdier and far more stable when loaded down. Touring bikes are there if you want a bike that can do everything reasonably well. Road bikes are there for having fun on the road, keeping fit, racing and they often be pressed into service as commuting bikes or light touring/loaded rides if needs be. Mountain bikes are for mountain biking. Hybrids are for people who want a touring bike but either don't know they exist, are afraid of drop bars or simply can't find one in their budget (they are harder to find I'll admit).

Anywho, this is all somewhat OT as the op mentioned fitness spins and ballyhoura neither of which require a hybrid according to conventional wisedom.

clonmahon

Tonyandthewhale wrote: »

A hybrid being much more comfortable to ride than a road bike is very much a matter of opinion and not an opinion I'd agree with.

My hybrid has a 28 tyre, my road bike has a 23 tyre. A 28 tyre has more rubber in contact with the road, it will absorb more of the shock than a 23. In our house we also have a three speed with 32 tyres, this absorbs even more shock than the hybrid. Simple fact the more rubber in contact with the road, the less shock your arse takes.

Tonyandthewhale wrote: »

I also don't agree that a hybrid is safer if you've got poorer bike handling. A good road bike often feels more responsive than a heavier hybrid but they're not objectively harder to ride.

Again more rubber in contact with the road, better braking, if I break really hard on my road bike on a wet road, it will skid a lot easier than my hybrid. I can stop the hybrid a lot quicker on a wet road, I have cornered on wet and slippery surfaces with my hybrid in a way I would never attempt on my road bike. More rubber in contact with the road means more traction, not good for going faster but better for stopping in a hurry.

Did you ever ride an old high nelly, weigh in at over 20 kg, a bitch to build up speed but when you do an incredibly stable machine. The weight makes a difference when you get the speed up. Exactly the same thing applies to motorbikes, heavy motorbike are more stable and handle better than light ones. Same thing goes for cars.

I watched my kids learn to cycle, they had no problem handling a hybrid, but they found a road bike a lot harder to master. A hybrid is a like a reliable riding pony, won’t give a spectacular performance but is safe and reliable, and suitable for anyone no matter how poor their horse handling skills. A road bike is like a thorough bred horse, capable of high performance, but not suitable for everyone and demanding good handling skills.

If my mother who is her 70s and still active asked me for advise on buying a bike, I would suggest a hybrid not a road bike.

Tonyandthewhale wrote: »

As for carrying loads, touring, pottering about or wearing ordinary clothes, those are all things you can do on a road bike, especially a cheaper entry level model with more relaxed positioning and mounts for a rack and mudguard.

I have carried up to 20 kgs of shopping on my steel framed hybrid. I would not attempt such a load on a road bike, I doubt the frame would take it and I imagine the handling would be very bad.

Tonyandthewhale wrote: »

Of course if you really want to carry loads and tour and such a touring bike is the optimum choice since it's a much more versatile platform than a hybrid, faster, more comfortable, sturdier and far more stable when loaded down.

I will concede this point a touring bike will do all that and do it better than a hybrid, but a touring bike is a lot more expensive than a hybrid. Entry level price for a Raleigh tourer is over 700 euros. My Raleigh hybrid cost me 300 euro. For many people including me the extra cost of a tourer is hardly justified.

Tonyandthewhale wrote: »

Hybrids are for people who want a touring bike but either don't know they exist, are afraid of drop bars or simply can't find one in their budget (they are harder to find I'll admit).

Maybe you are making the mistake of not seeing the world from others point of view. For many people myself included the hybrid is an ideal answer to our problem, a rugged, stable, comfortable, cost effective, low maintenance bike for everyday use. It won’t impress many cyclists like yourself, but then impressing others is not my primary objective when I go looking for a bike.

Would I be right in assuming that you are a young man?

I repeat my earlier point cycling in Ireland is a sporting subculture dominated by young men on road bikes dressed in lycra. They see cycling in a very limited way. I was once such a young man, I started cycling in 1973. But now that I am almost 50 I have slowed down a lot and a hybrid suits my needs much better now, than a road bike. It’s not fast, it’s not flash and it’s not sexy, but then neither am I.

Tonyandthewhale wrote: »

Anywho, this is all somewhat OT as the op mentioned fitness spins and ballyhoura neither of which require a hybrid according to conventional wisedom.

That’s as maybe but I chose to respond to your specific point “There's not really any reason to buy a hybrid “. As so often happens on boards.ie the thread diverges and digresses. I could have started a new thread on the subject of hybrids but I chose to post my views here.

I am not telling you that you are wrong, you have needs and wants as a cyclist and obviously a hybrid will not meet your needs. I am only trying to point out that we cyclists are a diverse group and you should not assume that what is good for you is good for all.

Tonyandthewhale

First of all, most road bikes will take a 28mm tyre so the question of shock absortion doesn't come into it if we're comparing a road bike to your 28mm tyre hybrid. Also, comfort is about more than just shock absortion of the tyres. The handle bars on a road bike are much more ergonomical and versatile and the saddles, while harder are less likely to be covered in excessive foam which your sit bones inevitably sink into resulting in unwanted pressure on your more delicate parts which can be no fun in the long run, not to mention chafed thighs from wider saddles.

As regards traction and braking, road bikes can generally take a 28mm tyre so if you're happy with the braking on your hybrid there's no reason you wouldn't be happy with a road bike with 28mm tyres assuming the brake pads and grippiness of the tyre are controlled for (because there are a lot of other variables beyond size of tyre here). Of course, if you really want to stop, get a mountain bike with hydraullic discs, or you can even get cyclocross bikes with discs nowadays.

As for high nellies, I do have one, it was my granduncles, bought in 1959. It is very stable (although I wouldn't want to bring a bike with road brakes and such vague steering up to any considerable speed, a road bike designed for speed is much safer due to higher maneouverability when it comes to going fast). Stability in bicycles however isn't down to tyres or weight, it's about frame design. High nellies have long chain stays and sloping angles which mean a long wheelbase and a wide turning circle and a generally relaxed feel. Weight doesn't count like it does with a motorbike or a car because the centre of gravity on even a heavy bike is going to be dictated by the rider, a heavy bike might make some difference, but not a
noticable one.

As for kids riding racing bikes, you need a more exact fit to feel comfortable on a road bike whereas hybrids and other flat-bar bikes tend to fit a wider range of people. Perhaps the road bike just didn't fit your kids as perfectly. Also you have the confounding factor of perception. If the kids are brought up in an environment where road bikes are seen as hard to use and hybrids are seen as easy they're going to feel more comfortable and confident on a hybrid, that's psychology 101.

As for carrying 20kg on a hybrid versus a road bike. I have toured on a road bike before I got my tourer and my girlfriend continues to do so. Loading up a road bike isn't ideal compared to a touring bike, mightn't feel as stable for the first few miles as a more tourey-hybrid (for there are many kinds of hybrids) but not a noticable difference in performance once you get used to it and the road bike is always faster and more ergonomic.

So it's not true to say that hybrids are a "rugged (mountain bikes,bmxs and 26er touring bikes are rugged, hybrids aren't desinged for a great deal of abuse), stable (depends), comfortable (subjective and varies between bikes), cost effective (compared to touring bikes maybe but it's pretty easy to get a cheap road bike), low maintenance (no less maintenance than a mountain bike or cheap road bike if you control for use and the relative bike-nerdiness of their users) bike for everyday use."

Anywho, when I said there's never any real reason to buy a hybrid I meant in terms of performance and versatility, choosing the right tool for the job. A hybrid will get you from A to B and will do for commuting and carrying moderate loads. But then again so will a road bike or a mountain bike. It's just that the road bike or mountain bike also excell in other areas where the hybrid can't compete.

Sure, if you want a hybrid there's no reason not to get a hybrid so long as you're happy to not do anything beyond it's capabilities without buying a second bike. Thing is a lot of people buy hybrids because they want a jack of all trades bike and more often or not they're intimidated by racing bikes. Thing is a hybrid isn't a jack of all trades, it's just an adequate tool for most of the simpler tasks that any bicycle has to do (and which for the most part any bike can do) and when people realise there's other things they want their bike to do they either lose interest or have to buy a second bike.

Maybe I'm looking at bikes in a limited way, maybe you are, either way, my opinion is shaped by the context of personal experience and remains unchanged. And if Dr. Nic buys a hybrid and comes back in a few months looking to upgrade because they've caught the cycling bug, I'm going to say 'I told you so' Clonmahon.

clonmahon

Well written Tonyandthewhale that is a very articulate and learned rebuttal of my post, well done. I don’t think we are going to agree, we will have to agree to differ. After 3500 km I still love my 300 euro hybrid and would not swap it for a road bike, you would no doubt rate this a very poor choice, just goes to show we cyclists, even very experienced ones are a diverse bunch.