Possible NFL Franchise For London?

Paully D

I've just been reading this article which talks about the prospect of an NFL franchise in London if the success of recent games over there continue.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2011/oct/12/nfl-uk-london-franchise?newsfeed=true

The NFL renewed its commitment to international expansion on Tuesday night, with its team owners voting to continue staging games in the United Kingdom through to 2016. They also opened the door to expanding the International Series, approving a resolution that "enables the league to determine the appropriate number of UK games per season, based on the popularity of the sport in the market and the number of teams that volunteer to play as home teams".

With ticket sales understood to have been slower than hoped for this year's game between the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the Chicago Bears, sceptics may suggest that such a wording also leaves the NFL free to decide that "zero" is the appropriate number of UK games. But that would be to ignore the words of the league's commissioner, Roger Goodell, who spoke to the media at the end of the meeting in Houston.

"First off, we've been very pleased at the reception to the game and the way that our business has grown over there," Goodell said. "I think now you want to see … can it be sustained for multiple games? So we're looking at multiple games over there, and if that can occur, then you're continuing to see that you're responding to what we're providing in the marketplace. That gives you a better sense of whether it could really be a host community for an NFL franchise. That's what we're trying to evaluate."

Before anyone gets too carried away, Goodell was also quick to note that the league is still a far cry from serious thoughts of a London franchise. And yet Tuesday's announcement does appear to have marked the beginning of stage two of the league's expansion plan. As the novelty effect of seeing a live game wears off for a new audience, something more substantial than a series of one-off fixtures is required to sustain the fans' interest.

Hence a key discussion point was the idea that it may make sense for one or two teams to become repeat visitors. "When the initial resolution was approved in 2006, the thinking at the time was that we would have two new teams every year," the NFL's vice-president of international operations, Chris Parsons, said. "As the series evolved, we felt as though having a team return to the UK on a regular basis would certainly increase the fan base for that particular team, which in turn would drive fan growth for the entire league."

On paper that logic seems sound. Research has shown that fans are far more likely to stick with a new sport if they have a specific team to follow. If the same franchise were to return every year, then the UK-based fans of the sport could adopt that team, and would be more amenable to shelling out the not inconsiderable sums required for a ticket (and in many cases for travel and hotel costs, too) than they may for a game between two teams for which they don't care.

The difficulty, though, is that most of the existing fans in the UK have already chosen their team (or, perhaps even had a team choose them), and may not be enthused by those who put themselves forwards for repeat visits. ESPN's Pat Yasinskas is not the only one to ponder now whether Tampa Bay, preparing for their second London "home game" in three years, are the most obvious candidate – precisely because they have struggled to find a sufficient audience where they are now.

But the NFL knows there is little to be gained by standing still, and would sooner press ahead than sit back and allow the early momentum they have generated fade away. And any who doubt that the UK games so far have helped increase the league's influence need look no further than the country's amateur American football scene.

The British American Football Association has expanded at a rate of three new teams per season across its senior and junior leagues since 2007. The British Universities American Football League has expanded from 42 teams to 67 last season. In the meantime, the NFL's viewing figures on UK television have reportedly grown by 91%.

Whether that is enough to justify the sums required to put on games over here is another question, but clearly the owners believe it is. Because as much as the sport may mean to the fans, this summer's lockout provided a stark reminder that it is, first and foremost, a business. And one that knows a thing or two about turning a profit, at that.

As a newbie to the sport I'll admit to not knowing a whole lot about how this would work.

There's talk Tampa Bay could become the London franchise, but do they just do it like that? What would happen to the supporter base etc in Tampa Bay?

I do know that multiple franchises have relocated around America, which aso seems strange, but to use an example from football, as a Sunderland supporter this would be the same as Sunderland relocating to a completely different country, wouldn't it? It all seems a bit mental to me!

It would be interesting to hear from people who know a lot more on this subject than I do, so over to you lads!

mikemac

Are we going to bring back Concorde?

The Florida teams are struggling badly with attendances. I'd include the Bengals also.
I saw the Bucs in Week Two and there were nearly more empty seats then full seats, just from my own subjective view on TV

Maybe Florida has been hit particulary hard by the economy, I've never been there but I hear a lot about real estate there

And another poster here mentioned there is so many out of staters there, like people go to Florida to retire so they are not going to support the local team

The NFL commissioner is well aware that Tampa has emerged as the blackout capital of the league in the past two seasons. Ten consecutive regular-season home games had been blacked on local television until Oct. 3, when the Bucs sold out their Monday night matchup against the Indianapolis Colts.

"Tampa's a great market,'' Goodell told The Tampa Tribune this week at the NFL's fall meetings in Houston. "I know how passionate the fans are down there. I also know the team is doing everything it can to get people into the stadium."

Goodell noted the effect a down economy is having on the region.

'We have to recognize what fans are going through right now," he said. "These are challenging times, and Tampa has been hit particularly hard."

"There's a lot of money changing hands and a lot of people that need to be paid. Owners are going to have that overhead … even if it's not a full house. At the same time, we have a real estate-driven economy here that's been hit very hard. People are deciding between going to a football game and buying a book bag for their kid.''

You'd think a division game against the Patriots would be big for Miami but huge swathes of the upper deck were empty

Some teams are struggling badly with attendances, others are coping fine

I don't know if a franchise would come over but if the UK can manage then they should consider Germany too

Rented Mule

I would guess that Jacksonville would be the team to move if this ever happened (provided they can keep the franchise alive until then).

spiralism

you know, it wouldn't surprise me if tampa did that, i would not put it past the glazers lol

tallaghtoutlaws

Can't see a Franchise ever happening in London. The distance for a west coast teams to travel to London is too great. Also games in London are a novelty right now imagine if the Jags move there how many non Jags will continue to go to their games consistently. First couple of year it will go well and then eventually it will go to sh1t.

Chardee MacDennis

true at the moment people are making an effort to travel to these games, if there are 8 a year that wouldnt happen.

What i'd like to see is it being hosted in rotating European capitals.

spiralism

It's not a realistic idea tbh yeah, teams playing the London game get their byes scheduled before or after it, teams wont be able to handle making 6+hr flights to play a game, it isn't feasible. Also, you have to factor in the cost of a team sending a squad of players on transatlantic flights to and from London at least 8 times a year... this isn't an expansion to Canada we're talking about after all, its completely the other side of the Atlantic.

what the NFL should be doing is keeping the London game a novelty and maybe stage a couple of other regular season games abroad if they're really thinking of creating a worldwide appeal. Bills already play a game in Canada, why not have one of the teams near the Mexican border play one in mexico? I'm sure there's also a market for other games abroad, the sport's pretty big in Germany isn't it? And Dan Rooney has made suggestions about a prospective steelers game in the aviva/croker i think?

Dear Mr. Goodell...

Paully D

I just find it mental how a team can be uprooted just like that to another location! Not even to London, but to somewhere else in America!

I know the majority of you are seasoned American Football fans so are well used to it, but as new American Football fan I find the whole concept of it just bizarre.

Just to take the team I've started supporting (Baltimore Ravens) as an example. If they had some bad years, the fans weren't turning up to the ground etc, the owners of that franchise could just look to move it to say for example LA where there would be more interest?

Syferus

Paully D wrote: »

I just find it mental how a team can be uprooted just like that to another location! Not even to London, but to somewhere else in America!

I know the majority of you are seasoned American Football fans so are well used to it, but as new American Football fan I find the whole concept of it just bizarre.

Just to take the team I've started supporting (Baltimore Ravens) as an example. If they had some bad years, the fans weren't turning up to the ground etc, the owners of that franchise could just look to move it to say for example LA where there would be more interest?

It's one of the nearly-unique things that's an expected (if not liked) facet of professional sports in the US. Wimbledon F.C. moved to Milton Keynes in the English football leagues in 2004 but examples of it happening this side of the Atlantic are few and far between.

mikemac

The stadiums are often owned by the county so it's taxpayers paying and then the team becomes the tenant.
This can work quite well and be win win as the team gets a base and the county gets business, tourism and tax dollars.

And it can be a disaster, Hamilton County in Ohio are being ruined by Paul Brown Stadium and over five hundred million spent.
Wall Street Journal called it the worst deal in professional sports.
Last week the county demanded cutbacks and Mike Brown was demanding reinvestment and more taxpayers money for the stadium.
In theory it should work, Ohio is football mad and they have a professional NFL team and some games from the Bearcats but it's not working at all.
This is the exception, you won't find any other examples this bad. Not that I know of.

I suppose Paully D to use your Baltimore example, if times were bad the owner would try to use leverage. Ask the city for tax money or threaten to leave. And be prepared to do it.

Remember how the Ravens came to Baltimore in the first place. Art Modell who still owns one per cent was demanding investment and a new stadium from Cleveland. But the city was tapped out after paying for a new stadium for the Cleveland Indians and they could not fund a new football stadium though they made an offer to improve the existing stadium. It's all about leverage

Then Washington objected to Baltimore getting a team as it's near their market base.
But the Redskins were looking to build a new stadium in Maryland so the Maryland governor got them to drop their objections to Baltimore

It's all pretty interesting realy

You should look up the ESPN 30 for 30 documentaries
The band that wouldn't die goes into a lot of detail of what happened in Baltimore.

Paully D

Very interesting stuff lads, thanks very much. All that is great reading for someone like me who's a rookie fan

I'll definitely do some more research and reading into it when I get a chance over the weekend and I have lined up that episode of 30 for 30 to watch too.

From reading about the Ravens when I first decided to follow them I remember seeing that Baltimore had the Colts before they moved to Indianapolis in the 1980's.

How do the fans take this sort of stuff when it happens? Would the American's generally just support whatever team is close to them without it really bothering them? To use the Baltimore Colts example would the majority of those supporters who were around back then now support the Ravens or still be passionate towards the Colts?

Syferus

Paully D wrote: »

Very interesting stuff lads, thanks very much. All that is great reading for someone like me who's a rookie fan

I'll definitely do some more research and reading into it when I get a chance over the weekend and I have lined up that episode of 30 for 30 to watch too.

From reading about the Ravens when I first decided to follow them I remember seeing that Baltimore had the Colts before they moved to Indianapolis in the 1980's.

How do the fans take this sort of stuff when it happens? Would the American's generally just support whatever team is close to them without it really bothering them? To use the Baltimore Colts example would the majority of those supporters who were around back then now support the Ravens or still be passionate towards the Colts?

Passionate in the sense whenever the Colts play at Baltimore it's a major police operation to keep a lid on the still-raw emotions with their abandonment of Baltimore. You're not going to find many Colts fans in Baltimore these days.

mikemac

Paully D wrote: »

To use the Baltimore Colts example would the majority of those supporters who were around back then now support the Ravens or still be passionate towards the Colts?

Oh, sore subject, there is still a lot of bitterness out there
You'll see this when you see the ESPN documentary

When Indianapolis comes to town, the scoreboard never ever shows the Colts, just states Indy

Point of principal for the stadium workers I suppose

The stadium introduced them as "Indianapolis Professional Football Team."
Of course they returned the favour and Baltimore's first trip to Indianapolis which was the RCA Dome back then, they were introduced as "Baltimore Professional Football Team"

D3PO

spiralism wrote: »

why not have one of the teams near the Mexican border play one in mexico?

already happened a few seasons ago.

me-skywalker

As I read it, its not about uprooting the Bucs completley, its a case of making them the 'home team' once off every year. This way supporters would be able to choose to support these as are guaranteed they will be over every year, easier to make a connection knowing you will see a team live and in person consistently, and for 1 week a season are the 'Wembley Team'. So not literally uprooting flying back and forward week by week, away teams flying over on given weeks etc etc... This would be more viable imo and I wouldn't mind since I already take an interest in the Bucs being a United fan. (wanna see them do well to increase the Glaziers coffers so there overall portfolio is strong and don't jsut leech Manchester United's books.)

Paully D wrote: »

I just find it mental how a team can be uprooted just like that to another location! Not even to London, but to somewhere else in America!

Syferus wrote: »

It's one of the nearly-unique things that's an expected (if not liked) facet of professional sports in the US. Wimbledon F.C. moved to Milton Keynes in the English football leagues in 2004 but examples of it happening this side of the Atlantic are few and far between.

Happens to a lesser extent in England, most high profile one is Arsenal. Originally a South London team, then moved to Highbury in NE and now cemented in another part of NE London!

*edit not a great example but still its one that Spurs fans can level at them

Chucky the tree

Paully D wrote: »

I just find it mental how a team can be uprooted just like that to another location! Not even to London, but to somewhere else in America!

I know the majority of you are seasoned American Football fans so are well used to it, but as new American Football fan I find the whole concept of it just bizarre.

Just to take the team I've started supporting (Baltimore Ravens) as an example. If they had some bad years, the fans weren't turning up to the ground etc, the owners of that franchise could just look to move it to say for example LA where there would be more interest?

I think it's actually a good idea. Similar to the no relegation thread in the football(non using the american word) forum about foreign owners wanting no relegation it would basically create franchises which most football fans would hate but personnally it would make the league far more competitive.

Syferus

D3PO wrote: »

already happened a few seasons ago.

Yeah, and even though Mexican fans would probably be very passionate for their team, Mexico isn't a juicy finical location.

The tickets prices wouldn't really be anywhere near as high because the country isn't drowning in the relatively seas of disposal cash the USA, Canada and Europe are. Especially with a team already in San Diego it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for bean counters, never mind safety concerns.

mikemac

Surely Germany are going to get an international game some day

When I was over for Patriots and Bucs there were lots of Germans over for it
Plus you have many US servicemen over in Germany

A few months ago there was talk of two games for London but just seems obvious to put one in Germany if that goes ahead
Not a huge deal for Irish fans going over, not much difference in price of flights

tallaghtoutlaws

mikemac wrote: »

Surely Germany are going to get an international game some day

When I was over for Patriots and Bucs there were lots of Germans over for it
Plus you have many US servicemen over in Germany

A few months ago there was talk of two games for London but just seems obvious to put one in Germany if that goes ahead
Not a huge deal for Irish fans going over, not much difference in price of flights

Add to the fact the Germans have some of the best American football leagues in the World. HUGE interest over there. Their top tier teams pay import players to play. The quality of football there is awesome.