Carina E - blowing blue smoke

manatoo

Hi all

My 1995 Carina E 1.6 is burning a lot of oil. Blue smoke in the exhaust when starting but also when driving at times. General smell of oil fumes when running.

I have no problems starting and no changes in power levels so I don't think there's a compression problem but clearly one or more of the valve stem seals is gonzo.

Any mechanics reckon they can take a look? Is it an expensive job?

I know the car is ancient but theres under 150,000 miles on it and I've been in 1.6 Carina E taxis with over 300,000 on them so it might be worth fixing up.

Anyone's thoughts/advice welcome

Cheers

manatoo

Actually I don't think mechanics are allowed tout for my business on here but anyone who wants to PM me is more than welcome

Plug

Would there be more blue smoke during engine warm up? The oil rings could be fecked also. Probably cheaper to fit a second hand engine if its not a simple fix. Would you have to put oil in it much?

manatoo

manatoo wrote: »

...............

Anyone's thoughts/advice welcome

.........

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055982443

Instead of throwing in oil whenever the light comes on practice some routine maintenance on your next car

kermitpwee

Had a few carina e's and we have 2 in the family at the moment. They all burn oil but if she is blowing blue smoke and smells oily then that engine is finished. The E like any other car needs the oil changed every 6k and make sure you don't run it low.
It is a waste of time repairing the engine as more than likely it was ran low on oil and all bearing shells will need replacing and god knows what else.
Get another engine or a new car.

I know this isn't adverts but I have a very good engine that I might sell, Pm me if your interested.

Nissan doctor

An engine is far from finished just because its blowing smoke.

A simple leakdown test will tell you if the combustion chambers are in good condition(rings, ringlands, valve seats etc). If all these are ok then, as with most toyotas when the mileage starts to build, the valve stem seals are worn and can be replaced.

kermitpwee

Nissan doctor wrote: »

An engine is far from finished just because its blowing smoke.

I understand that you are a very good mechanic but imo the engine is finished. Eleven 1.6 carina e's have gone through my hands so I have a great knowledge of them, at the moment my mam has one and dad is driving one(both are 96 and in maroon, at one stage we had 3 96 maroon carina's on the driveway:D) At high mileage these engines just will not blow blue smoke unless they have been run on very little oil or never serviced. I have yet to see them ever blowing blue smoke.

The reason I said the engine was finished is that on another thread the op has said that he only puts oil in the car when the OIL LIGHT COMES ON:eek:
I don't need to tell you that at that stage it is generally too late to save the engine especially if it is a regular occurance.

Regards
Kermitpwee
2nd in command to VB!

kermitpwee

kermitpwee wrote: »

..........

The reason I said the engine was finished is that on another thread the op has said that he only puts oil in the car when the OIL LIGHT COMES ON:eek:
I don't need to tell you that at that stage it is generally too late to save the engine especially if it is a regular occurance.

.......

In fairness to the OP I think he said he performed oil changes and also lashed in oil in between them when the light came on, so it must burn a good drop.

kermitpwee

RoverJames wrote: »

In fairness to the OP I think he said he performed oil changes and also lashed in oil in between them when the light came on, so it must burn a good drop.

They all burn oil like ****! Even the best of them Carina's need the oil checked every 500 miles. In my book putting oil in when the oil light comes on is not acceptable.
Think about it if you had a car that burns oil would you not check it more often than a car that didn't burn much oil?
I am sorry if I have hurt the Op but the reality is checking oil is not rocket science.
The service interval for them is 6000 miles, if you were relying on getting to the next service without topping up oil on the best of them you would be running on empty for the last 3k miles, they all burn oil and don't have a great oil capacity anyway.

kermitpwee

kermitpwee wrote: »

.......... In my book putting oil in when the oil light comes on is not acceptable.
Think about it if you had a car that burns oil would you not check it more often than a car that didn't burn much oil?...........

Oh, I agree ...

RoverJames wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055982443

Instead of throwing in oil whenever the light comes on practice some routine maintenance on your next car

By routine maintenance I meant checking the oil regularly and lashing in the oil before the light comes on

kermitpwee

RoverJames wrote: »

Oh, I agree ...


By routine maintenance I meant checking the oil regularly and lashing in the oil before the light comes on

Sure don't I know that you know what your talking about, well most of the time!

What are you driving these days anyway?

Nissan doctor

kermitpwee wrote: »

I understand that you are a very good mechanic but imo the engine is finished. Eleven 1.6 carina e's have gone through my hands so I have a great knowledge of them, at the moment my mam has one and dad is driving one(both are 96 and in maroon, at one stage we had 3 96 maroon carina's on the driveway:D) At high mileage these engines just will not blow blue smoke unless they have been run on very little oil or never serviced. I have yet to see them ever blowing blue smoke.

The reason I said the engine was finished is that on another thread the op has said that he only puts oil in the car when the OIL LIGHT COMES ON:eek:
I don't need to tell you that at that stage it is generally too late to save the engine especially if it is a regular occurance.

Regards
Kermitpwee
2nd in command to VB!

Less then an hour with the correct equipment and correct knowalage will tell you the overall condition of the engine.

I was refaring to your comment that if an engine is blowing smoke its finished...its only finished to the many mechanics out there who can't be arsed to actually repair an engine and would rather just take the easy route by telling the customer they need a new one.

Also:

kermitpwee wrote: »

At high mileage these engines just will not blow blue smoke unless they have been run on very little oil or never serviced. I have yet to see them ever blowing blue smoke.

kermitpwee wrote: »

They all burn oil like ****! Even the best of them Carina's need the oil checked every 500 miles.

Which is it?

Regards,
Nissan doctor,
2nd in command to no-one!:rolleyes:

kermitpwee

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Less then an hour with the correct equipment and correct knowalage will tell you the overall condition of the engine.

I was refaring to your comment that if an engine is blowing smoke its finished...its only finished to the many mechanics out there who can't be arsed to actually repair an engine and would rather just take the easy route by telling the customer they need a new one.

Also:




Which is it?

Regards,
Nissan doctor,
2nd in command to no-one!:rolleyes:

If you read my post again you will see that I said 'that engine was finished' this was based on my knowledge that he had run it low on oil and that those engines don't blow blue smoke.

You have said that i said 'an engine is finished' this is a totally different statement and one which I did not say as it has totally different connotations. For example I have a Austin A35 that is blowing blue smoke, I do not think that the A series engine is finished as I am dealing with it in a different context then the Op's engine.
It would appear that you have taken me up on a comment that I didn't make.

As for your comments on them not blowing blue smoke but their ability to consume oil. I can only assume that you have not worked on the 4afe engine in question. If you had you wouldn't be coming up with juvenile questions like that.
You have vast knowledge of car mechanics I'll give you that but you won't catch me out on this subject as I have greater knowledge on this car than you.

Regards

Kermitpwee

kermitpwee

kermitpwee wrote: »

.........

What are you driving these days anyway?

Still in the ZT, 14 months today :pac:

kermitpwee

RoverJames wrote: »

Still in the ZT, 14 months today :pac:

Jesus, It's time to move her on:D

Nissan doctor

kermitpwee wrote: »

If you read my post again you will see that I said 'that engine was finished' this was based on my knowledge that he had run it low on oil and that those engines don't blow blue smoke.

You have said that i said 'an engine is finished' this is a totally different statement and one which I did not say as it has totally different connotations. For example I have a Austin A35 that is blowing blue smoke, I do not think that the A series engine is finished as I am dealing with it in a different context then the Op's engine.
It would appear that you have taken me up on a comment that I didn't make.

As for your comments on them not blowing blue smoke but their ability to consume oil. I can only assume that you have not worked on the 4afe engine in question. If you had you wouldn't be coming up with juvenile questions like that.
You have vast knowledge of car mechanics I'll give you that but you won't catch me out on this subject as I have greater knowledge on this car than you.

Regards

Kermitpwee

I don't need to try to 'catch anyone out'. You rightly say they all burn oil as the mileage rises, how do you think this oil is being burned? It leaks through the stem seals on these engines , as the problem gets worse, smoke will be visible, initially on start up and eventually any time the engine is revved. Most Toyota A and E series engine of the time suffer this problem.

There are only 2 ways oil can leak into the combustion chamber, either through the piston rings or through the valve stem seals, a leak down test will show any issue with the rings/pistons etc. If this is ok then the stem seals need changing and this can be done without even removing the head.

If your point it that because this engine has been run low on oil a number of times and therefor is ruined, well first of all if damage has been caused it will be noisy when running, second, damage begins in the head as low oil pressure leads to the cams/lifters etc being starved of oil first so the condition of those, and therefor the likelyhood of further damage, can be assesed when the rocker cover is removed.

andyseadog

surely if a car is burning oil in such large quantities that it needs to be checked every 500~ miles it will produce blue smoke?

i mean when oil is being burnt, isn't blue smoke something that will be there, it's not a "will it, wont it" kind of thing is it?

Nissan doctor

andyseadog wrote: »

surely if a car is burning oil in such large quantities that it needs to be checked every 500~ miles it will produce blue smoke?

i mean when oil is being burnt, isn't blue smoke something that will be there, it's not a "will it, wont it" kind of thing is it?

Yes, oil level can only drop 3 ways, leaking externally, leaking internally into the cooling system or leaking internally into the combustion chamber.

Externally will have obvious signs, into the cooling system will be coupled with cooling issues.
When leaking into the combustion chamber and being burned, there will be smoke, how much depends on how bad the leak is. If someones engine is 'burning' oil then either its not leaking badly enough to cause noticable smoke or they just haven't noticed any smoke.

Wheelnut

kermitpwee wrote: »

... at the moment my mam has one and dad is driving one(both are 96 and in maroon...

I know the thread has moved on from here, but I admire Kermit's parents still driving at 96, I never heard of Maroon but I presume it's a village somewhere in this country.

kermitpwee

Wheelnut wrote: »

I know the thread has moved on from here, but I admire Kermit's parents still driving at 96, I never heard of Maroon but I presume it's a village somewhere in this country.

You obviously have led a very sheltered life and I drive a 1990 car

manatoo

Hi all

NissanDoctor, PM sent.

Everyone else - yeah, I know I practiced very shoddy maintenance on this but in my own defence, it gets through so much oil that even if I had been servicing it every 6k I would probably have had to top up by a full 4 litres before service time anyway which I assume means something must be wrong.

Kermit, what pace do your 4afes get through oil? How many miles per litre added approx?

Thanks

kermitpwee

manatoo wrote: »

Hi all

NissanDoctor, PM sent.

Everyone else - yeah, I know I practiced very shoddy maintenance on this but in my own defence, it gets through so much oil that even if I had been servicing it every 6k I would probably have had to top up by a full 4 litres before service time anyway which I assume means something must be wrong.

Kermit, what pace do your 4afes get through oil? How many miles per litre added approx?

Thanks

To be honest I check the oil so often I wouldn't be able to give a definite figure but I could give a estimate. The low mileage engine 140k would burn from the top mark on the dipstick to the low in about 3000 miles. The other car 294k would burn that level out in 1000miles.

manatoo

kermitpwee wrote: »

To be honest I check the oil so often I wouldn't be able to give a definite figure but I could give a estimate. The low mileage engine 140k would burn from the top mark on the dipstick to the low in about 3000 miles. The other car 294k would burn that level out in 1000miles.

How many litres would you say is the difference between the top and bottom marks on the dipstick?

In fairness, I'd say my consumption is somewhere between the two you're mentioning. I certainly don't think I'm gettin thru it at the rate you're saying for the 294k engine. You must either be doing low mileage or constantly turfing oil into that one!

Is there never even the slightest whiff of oil burning in the exhaust if you stand beside them with the engine running or if you are stopped in traffic at night can you see puffs in the headlights of the car behind when stopped at lights etc?

294k is enormous mileage. What mileage had that car when you bought it? What repairs have you had?

kermitpwee

manatoo wrote: »

How many litres would you say is the difference between the top and bottom marks on the dipstick?

In fairness, I'd say my consumption is somewhere between the two you're mentioning. I certainly don't think I'm gettin thru it at the rate you're saying for the 294k engine. You must either be doing low mileage or constantly turfing oil into that one!

Is there never even the slightest whiff of oil burning in the exhaust if you stand beside them with the engine running or if you are stopped in traffic at night can you see puffs in the headlights of the car behind when stopped at lights etc?

294k is enormous mileage. What mileage had that car when you bought it? What repairs have you had?

I dont actually know how many litres there is in between the low and high mark on the dipstick. We bought it off a neighbour with 101k on it, it had a service history, from then on I serviced it every 6k without fail myself.
For the nct it needed bushins,brake lines and drop links and a tie rod twice.
It also needed a steering rack and the no3 injector was replaced once.It got a set of disks at 200k and cylinders and shoes in the back at 250k. It also got a radiator.

It doesn't blow smoke, only time I see smoke is on a cold day at start up which in my book is normal.
My dad uses it as his daily driver and has been to England in it 2 months ago. It is tested till 4/13 and needed brake lines for the test.

It wont win any beauty contests but will sit at 75mph on the motorway and in normal driving is quite good on fuel. My dad will be driving it into the ground, the body is rust free so we expect to get another 5-6 years out of it, I have spare engines and boxes so that is why we will keep it running. It may never need those parts but as I have them it wont be costing anything to keep it going if the engine went etc where as for anybody else it would be going to the scrapper.

manatoo

manatoo wrote: »

How many litres would you say is the difference between the top and bottom marks on the dipstick?.........

A litre +/- 250mls I would think.

manatoo

RoverJames wrote: »

A litre +/- 250mls I would think.

Have you experience of this engine? This wouldn't be a standard number in most cars would it?

manatoo

manatoo wrote: »

Have you experience of this engine?

Yes, I topped up more than a few for folk when I worked in a factors years ago, to bring the level from half way between min and max on the dipstick to the max mark took over a half litre of oil iirc.

manatoo wrote: »

This wouldn't be a standard number in most cars would it?

No, but 750mls to 1250mls is a decent enough range in fairness.