Ireland to Host 2023 WC?

.ak

Dunno if it's been speculated on these forums before, but what are the chances of Ireland making a bid for the 2023 WC?

I was thinking about it today, but if we used our GAA stadia certainly we'd be able to host it?

Or would there be too many financial/planning issues preventing us from hosting it?

themont85

Too many better candidates than ourselves;

Russia
South Africa
Australia

Outside bets;
USA
Canada

Our only hope would be a Celtic World Cup.

We'd need a top notch Belfast stadium though along with probably one more decent 15,000 stadium. The GAA stadiums aren't good enough even if they have the capacity, CP aside of course.

Kiwi_knock

Probably cost us too much money, I am nearly certain NZRU are making a loss from this tournament. Might be a possibility of co hosting it with a few other countries.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Do what Wales are doing and get in on a English world cup. Thats the only way I see Ireland hosting a WC in the future.

matthew8

The GAA stadia are nowhere near the standard of stadiums expected. They would be even worse than the mickey mouse stadiums they had in New Zealand for Namibia games. For a world cup, Thomond, Musgrave, the sportsground, Ravenhill and the RDS need upgrades, and we would need 1 more big stadium. Especially as the next 2 world cups will be in countries with big stadiums.

irishh_bob

matthew8 wrote: »

The GAA stadia are nowhere near the standard of stadiums expected. They would be even worse than the mickey mouse stadiums they had in New Zealand for Namibia games. For a world cup, Thomond, Musgrave, the sportsground, Ravenhill and the RDS need upgrades, and we would need 1 more big stadium. Especially as the next 2 world cups will be in countries with big stadiums.

croke park is far superior to any of the stadia in nz , it could host several pool games , two quater finals and everything else from there on in , between the aviva , winsor park , semple stadium , pairc u cuimh and porloaise for tonga v romania , i think we could easily handle such a tournament

8-10

matthew8 wrote: »

For a world cup, Thomond, Musgrave, the sportsground, Ravenhill and the RDS need upgrades

Thomond and Ravenhill hosted World Cup 1999 games, and Ravenhill in 1991.

I see no reason why we couldn't host it like Wales did in 1999, using other 6 nation stadia and having the Final and 1 Semi and 1 Quarter in the Aviva and giving the likes of Thomond and Ravenhill group games and even maybe using Croker for another quarter.

matthew8

8-10 wrote: »

Thomond and Ravenhill hosted World Cup 1999 games, and Ravenhill in 1991.

I see no reason why we couldn't host it like Wales did in 1999, using other 6 nation stadia and having the Final and 1 Semi and 1 Quarter in the Aviva and giving the likes of Thomond and Ravenhill group games and even maybe using Croker for another quarter.

Things have changed since 1991 and 1999.

mossyc123

We'd need 10 Stadia at least...

Dublin x2 (Croke Park, Lansdowne Rd)

Limerick x2 (Thomond Park, Gaelic Grounds)

Belfast/NI x2 (Ravenhill, NI National Stadium (Proposed recently on Maze prison site, not sure how that's progressing)

Cork (New GAA Stadium proposed recently, could/should turn into a joint IRFU/GAA venture)

Galway (Pearse Stadium)

Castlebar (McHale Park)

Thurles (Semple Stadium)

That's 10 possibilities. all with sufficient capacities, but would depend on 2 completely new Stadia being built as well as facilities upgrades for GAA Grounds in Limerick, Galway, Thurles and Castlebar as well as Ravenhill.

And taking into account 12 years of austerity ahead of us from here to 2023... it doesn't look affordable or practical unfortunately.

Realistically, our best chance would be a Celtic World Cup shared with Wales and Scotland.

We could contribute Croke Park, Lansdowne Rd, Thomond Park at least and if NI and Cork can both get their act together they could have a few games as well

We could reasonably ask for the Final as Wales had it in 1999 and Scotland have nothing to match the Capacity of Croke Park.

dtpc191991

We'd have to share it wit England or Wales. We simply don't have enough large capacity stadiums. Plus there's no Garentee that the GAA would allow Croker to be used.

ambid

mossyc123 wrote: »

We'd need 10 Stadia at least...

Dublin x2 (Croke Park, Lansdowne Rd)

Limerick x2 (Thomond Park, Gaelic Grounds)

Belfast/NI x2 (Ravenhill, NI National Stadium (Proposed recently on Maze prison site, not sure how that's progressing)

Cork (New GAA Stadium proposed recently, could/should turn into a joint IRFU/GAA venture)

Galway (Pearse Stadium)

Castlebar (McHale Park)

Thurles (Semple Stadium)

That's 10 possibilities. all with sufficient capacities, but would depend on 2 completely new Stadia being built as well as facilities upgrades for GAA Grounds in Limerick, Galway, Thurles and Castlebar as well as Ravenhill.

And taking into account 12 years of austerity ahead of us from here to 2023... it doesn't look affordable or practical unfortunately.

Realistically, our best chance would be a Celtic World Cup shared with Wales and Scotland.

We could contribute Croke Park, Lansdowne Rd, Thomond Park at least and if NI and Cork can both get their act together they could have a few games as well

We could reasonably ask for the Final as Wales had it in 1999 and Scotland have nothing to match the Capacity of Croke Park.

Don't think the NI national stadium is progressing. There was lots of opposition to the Maze as it's pretty far from big urban areas. They then looked at a place in east Belfast beside the George Best airport, but I think the GAA weren't keen on somewhere so far from their west Belfast heartland.

I think the plan now is to upgrade existing stadiums - Ravenhill, Windsor Park, & Casement Park. Seems a shame really, a new stadium might have been a rare shared cultural centre for both communities.

I doubt a new Cork stadium will happen. With the upgrade of Thomond & Musgrave, I can't imagine the IRFU would want a share in yet another stadium in Munster.

I think you're right though - mega austerity and a lack of modern stadiums means it an Irish world cup is unlikely. Best we could do is share it across Dublin, Belfast, Linerick (maybe Pearse Stadium in Galway?) and another country. That would still be great though.

CatFromHue

Don't forget to host the event you have to pay a fairly large sum of money to the IRB. England paid GBP£80million to host the 2015 tournament. New Zealand have budgeted for a loss on this tournament which I think has been revised to a bigger loss recently enough.

In NZ they own all the stadiums so don't pay any rent like we would have to the GAA if we were to use theirs. According to the link below it cost the IRFU £850,000 or 25% of the ticket sales to host the rugby games in Croker.

http://www.irishabroad.com/news/irishpost/featurearticles/EveryoneWinnerGAACrokePark.asp

So using GAA stadiums just isn't feasible.

mossyc123

ambid wrote: »

I think the plan now is to upgrade existing stadiums - Ravenhill, Windsor Park, & Casement Park. Seems a shame really, a new stadium might have been a rare shared cultural centre for both communities.

Bad call by NI Ministry there.

How are Catholics/Nationalists supposed to identify with a national side that plays in Windsor Park the home of Linfield???

No real need for an upgrade of Casement Park either... it's a poor location for a Neutral Venue IMO.

Legion2008

I think it was more that 80million that the english had to pay and possibly closer to 150m .. could be wrong though.

Having said that I don't believe we couldn't host the tournament, looking at the fee that's paid shouldn't be an inhibitor and if we did go for it it shouldn't be the IRFU that should be put on the hook for that, Tourism Ireland would benefit hugely by the influx of rugby tourists for the duration of the tournament, there was a study carried out after RWC 2007 that said it was worth quite a bit to the french economy (http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-UnitedKingdom/Local%20Assets/Documents/UK_SBG_IRB2008.pdf). Now I'm not niave and don't think Ireland could attract the same level of tourism as France but it's worth looking at the big picture. There is a high cost involved in preparing to host a tournament, and based on the reported experience of NZ the host union will not directly recoup the money spent on the rights but there's a bigger picture to look at.

There's a number of key questions that would need to be answered here:

Q. Does Ireland have enough stadia capacity to host the event now?
A. Not at present, redvelopment would be needed for some of the stadia, use of some GAA grounds would be required as well, with subsequent redevelopment and upgrade of these stadia required.

Q. Do we have time to redevelop?
A. Yes, we're talking 12 years away, a lot could happen in that time, Ravenhill redevelopment should be completed, Musgrave Park should be completed, hell Leinster may have redeveloped the RDS by then.

Q. What other benefits would there be?
A. ok, let's leave aside the infrastructure improvements that this would bring along, there would have to be money spent on trainig facilities for the bases that participating countries, that would leave a legacy for either local rugby or GAA clubs, any redevelopment of stadia would be beneficial to either the IRFU or the GAA.

Bottom line is that could we host a world cup ....? in my view yes we can ....

It's a bit of a moot question anyway, the rights to the next 2 world cups have been assigned so it won't be until about 2016/17 that people will start thinking of the host nation for 2023

Teferi

themont85 wrote: »

Too many better candidates than ourselves;

Russia
South Africa
Australia

Outside bets;
USA
Canada

Our only hope would be a Celtic World Cup.

We'd need a top notch Belfast stadium though along with probably one more decent 15,000 stadium. The GAA stadiums aren't good enough even if they have the capacity, CP aside of course.

Have South Africa or Australia said they are up for hosting it?

I don't think that any of the top 8 should be allowed host it regularly from here on out. If we are committed to spreading rugby then the WC needs to be played in countries where there could be large expansion - like the US, Canada or Russia. It's useless to play in a 6N/Tri-Nations country.

ArmaniJeanss

Is it really a possibility that the GAA would give up the use of their grounds for free? Have relationships between the codes thawed that much?

I emphasise 'free' by the way because I don't see any chance of the IRB paying any money to hire grounds when there will be multiple bids (Italy, Russia, SAF as mentioned earlier) who will be providing grounds for free as part of their bids.

CIARAN_BOYLE

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Is it really a possibility that the GAA would give up the use of their grounds for free? Have relationships between the codes thawed that much?

I emphasise 'free' by the way because I don't see any chance of the IRB paying any money to hire grounds when there will be multiple bids (Italy, Russia, SAF as mentioned earlier) who will be providing grounds for free as part of their bids.

The bidding union has to pay a huge amount to 'buy' the games and then they must provide the costs for stadiums (rent) while hoping that they make enough money in ticket sales to not have to mortgage their own stadiums

ambid

England plan to use mostly soccer stadiums for the rugby world cup in 2015. Although they are huge so should still generate a big profit after rent has been paid I imagine.

shaggykev

NZ hosted it with 12 stadia.

About 6 of them had capacity of 15,000-20,000.

Don't think we could host it by ourselves unless all the GAA grounds were opened which is not going to happen.

Croker would def be needed for the final over Aviva as the Aviva capacity is not big enough.

So we would have
Croke Park 82k
Aviva 50k
Thomond Park 28k?
Musgrave redeveloped to 15k?
Sportsground 10k?
Ravenhill 25 with redevelopment

So we'd either have to go cal in hand to England Wales or perhaps host it jointly with Scotland

Scottish Stadia
Murrayfield 60k
Aberdeen 25k
Hampden 50k
Celtic Park 62k
Glasgow Warriors ground 13k?
Dundee Utd 15k?

LeeroyJones

We've missed our chance to host a Rugby World Cup solo. Perhaps in the past we could have managed to arrange something but now the Rugby World Cup is truly a global spectacle which we just cannot facilitate.
Look at the next two World Cups; England and Japan have raised the bar substantially.

England 2015
Wembley 90,000
Twickenham 80,000
Old Trafford 76,000
Millennium Stadium 74,000
Emirates Stadium 60,000
St James' Park 52,000
Anfield 45,000
Elland Road 39,000
St Mary's Stadium 32,000
Ricoh Arena 32,000
Welford Road 30,000
Kingsholm 19,000

I don't know Japan's stadia off hand but I do know that they are state of the art and most are 50,000+.

bamboozle

if i was a billionaire i'd love to stump up the money for Ireland to host the world cup, get the GAA on board (they grew quiet fond of the extra payments for renting out croker)

maybe more realistically we could aim to co-host it with Italy or scotland, would be good for the game in Italy if they were to co-host it.

wixfjord

LeeroyJones wrote: »

We've missed our chance to host a Rugby World Cup solo. Perhaps in the past we could have managed to arrange something but now the Rugby World Cup is truly a global spectacle which we just cannot facilitate.
Look at the next two World Cups; England and Japan have raised the bar substantially.

England 2015
Wembley 90,000
Twickenham 80,000
Old Trafford 76,000
Millennium Stadium 74,000
Emirates Stadium 60,000
St James' Park 52,000
Anfield 45,000
Elland Road 39,000
St Mary's Stadium 32,000
Ricoh Arena 32,000
Welford Road 30,000
Kingsholm 19,000

I don't know Japan's stadia off hand but I do know that they are state of the art and most are 50,000+.

Anfield and Elland Road?! Jesus I would have thought these would be very small pitches in traditionally rugby league areas with very big capacities.

Although, seeing Ireland at the home of football (Anfield) would be a dream come true!

Looking at that, there must be double the capacity there than in this World Cup, and at least 5 grounds capable of holding a final!

wixfjord

Isn't there an RDS development in the pipeline in the next few years?

8-10

Why would we want to do it solo? No Northern Hemisphere World Cup has ever been held in just 1 country, including the next 2, 2015 uses England and Wales, 2019 uses Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore. Why would we try to do it?

I hugely doubt that if nations like England, France and Japan which all have a lot of quality stadia, don't host it solo, we would not have a chance. But my point is we don't really have a reason to.

totallegend

The RWC will not be in Europe again until 2027 anyway; I would be surprised if South Africa is not awarded the 2023 tournament.

[Jackass]

Fair enough Englands stadiums are world class, but that's a lot more to do with football than rugby. I'm not sure how well games would sell in those size stadiums in the first place. Especially when you consider that not one of the quarter finals in New Zealand sold out, with much smaller stadiums.

Some points on stadiums we would have available...

Croke Park 80,000
Lansdowne Road 50,000
Thomond Park 26,000
RDS 25,000
(This redevelopment has been confirmed and is scheduled to start after this season)
Windsor Park 25,000
(New stadium - already awarded grant from UK Government to carry out the work which begins soon)
Ravenhill 20,000
(with additional temporary seating - expecting normal capacity after current development is 18,000)
Musgrave Park 15,000
(not sure on figure for when it's developed, but would imagine minimum 15,000)
Showgrounds 12,000
(With complete wrap around temporary seating)

That would leave us with 8 stadiums that are either ready, in the process of being upgraded, or can be upgraded easily to accomodate lesser world cup games.

I think it's possible to host the world cup with 10 or 11 stadiums, this would leave us 2 or 3 short.

By the stage of the world cup, you would hope that there would be enough Government funding and any international grants to construct 2 municiple stadiums, potentially in the Wexford / Kilkenny area and maybe around Tipperary / Kerry.

They could be desinged in such a way as to be useful as confrence venues or music venues also.

Failing that, the GAA may grant us permission to use 2 or 3 state of the art stadium of medium size around the country, of which there are many (GAA have upgraded many stadiums to a superb standard in recent years and although many of the bigger ones are not suitable, there would easily be enough suitable stadia should the request be granted.)

I think it's very possible, and I think it's a goal of the IRFU, who have invested heavily in infrastructure.

Another alternative would be temporary seating at Donnybrook / small redevelopment to bring it to a 15,000 capacity stadium.

Definitely possible to host the world cup.

theboss80

Are people honestly suggesting that Croke Park could be used ...in September .. think again there Id say

durkadurka

[Jackass] wrote: »

RDS 25,000
(This redevelopment has been confirmed and is scheduled to start after this season)

I havent heard this from anywhere else.

pickarooney

I don't see how England is going to be able to host matches in Premiership grounds over a seven-week period unless it's right in the middle of the summer. What's the plan there exactly?

durkadurka

theboss80 wrote: »

Are people honestly suggesting that Croke Park could be used ...in September .. think again there Id say

The world cup calendar moves a bit. It could conceivably be after the third sunday in Sept. And the GAA have moved the football final by a weeek in the past due to Ryder cup, so I wouldnt say thats a dealbreaker.

[Jackass]

durkadurka wrote: »

I havent heard this from anywhere else.

This was confirmed in a Q & A session with Leinster CEO, Mick Dawson

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/newsroom/6278.php

Mick Dawson wrote:

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/newsroom/6278.php
Q8: Is there any scope to develop the Anglesea Stand?

Ans: Yes, we have architects drawings for a new Anglesea Stand and we are currently working with the RDS to see how soon we can start, how much it will cost and what the revenues would be for future years but it is definitely on the cards.

Mick Dawson wrote:

Q13. What are the development and lease plans for the RDS?

Ans: We currently are in the fourth year of a twenty year arrangement with the RDS. We have a break clause after five and ten years. After five years we have the opportunity to buy ourselves out of the lease and after ten years we can walk away. However, it is our intention to stay in the RDS for the long term and to take some marquee matches to the Aviva Stadium and hopefully in the short term to redevelop the Anglesea Stand.

Don't have the quote I was looking for, but I did see it mentioned a season or two ago that work was scheduled to begin at the end of the 2011 / 12 season with a complete rebuild of the Anglesea stand and increasing capacity to c. 25,000.

StephenHendry

as others have said 'if' the gaa allow their stadia to be used. without this we don't have enough other stadia capable of hosting it. maybe a joint bid along with wales and scotland

.ak

A litte OT, but I'd love it if the architects took a leaf from the Thomond park book. Definitely one of my favorite stadiums in Ireland. The problem I find with modern stadiums is they don't build the lower levels at steep enough angles. I've never had a bad seat in Thomond, because the seating is so steep you get a great vantage point from anywhere (and no obstruction!)

I moved my season ticket in the RDS from the Anglesea stand to the Grandstand (as it was marginally cheaper and closer to the halfway line), and I'm very disappointed. Halfway back and you still feel like you're on ground level.

Don't know about redevelopment being as close as the end of this season. That would be nice though... Having said that if we're talking about potentially hosting WC matches at RDS I'm sure the capacity will go up by 2023. The season ticket sales are breaking records year by year at this stage.

desertcircus

pickarooney wrote: »

I don't see how England is going to be able to host matches in Premiership grounds over a seven-week period unless it's right in the middle of the summer. What's the plan there exactly?

I'd guess a combination of the international break and a few consecutive away games would be the solution.

wixfjord

.ak wrote: »

A litte OT, but I'd love it if the architects took a leaf from the Thomond park book. Definitely one of my favorite stadiums in Ireland. The problem I find with modern stadiums is they don't build the lower levels at steep enough angles. I've never had a bad seat in Thomond, because the seating is so steep you get a great vantage point from anywhere (and no obstruction!)

I moved my season ticket in the RDS from the Anglesea stand to the Grandstand (as it was marginally cheaper and closer to the halfway line), and I'm very disappointed. Halfway back and you still feel like you're on ground level.

Don't know about redevelopment being as close as the end of this season. That would be nice though... Having said that if we're talking about potentially hosting WC matches at RDS I'm sure the capacity will go up by 2023. The season ticket sales are breaking records year by year at this stage.

Thomond is one of the best, if not the best, smaller sports stadiums in the country. It's got it all for rugby. Terraces, great sloping seats, a roof and lovely corporate areas.

RDS really suffers from a lack of a deeper angle on the stands, and the lack of corporate facilities imo. A good job on the Angelsea would be a big boost.

Thud

If Argentina keep progressing like they have done they would be in with a strong shout for 2023.
They'll be in the 4 nations 12 years at that stage and could well be beating NH teams on a regular basis.

It would bring the comp to a new continent and they have several football stadiums that could be used and if the IRB wanted to spread the appeal a bit they could do a Argentina/Brazil tournamanet that could take advantage of the 2014 Soccer world cup and 2016 Olympic stadium developments.

You'd also have to think the US (and possibly Canadian) teams will have advanced so a tournament in their timezone would be favourable to promote the game their

ambid

wixfjord wrote: »

Thomond is one of the best, if not the best, smaller sports stadiums in the country. It's got it all for rugby. Terraces, great sloping seats, a roof and lovely corporate areas.

RDS really suffers from a lack of a deeper angle on the stands, and the lack of corporate facilities imo. A good job on the Angelsea would be a big boost.

That's a really good point IMO. The terrace in the RDS is pretty flat with not much extra height from step to step. I'll often have some big lanky fecker (well, taller than my 5'8"!) standing on the step below me but still towering over me and blocking my view :mad:

But the Grandstand is inexcusable. It's only a relatively new stand and seems to have lots of space to play with so I don't understand why the slope is so poor. I was in there a couple of years ago and the view is very poor at the ends - people can't see so stand up which only blocks more of the view.

The debate has been had here before but I struggle to see the need to expand to a 25,000 stadium in the RDS, but upgrading the facilities would be brilliant. The RDS size and location are great, but facilities in Thomond are excellent.

LeeroyJones

[Jackass] wrote: »

Fair enough Englands stadiums are world class, but that's a lot more to do with football than rugby. I'm not sure how well games would sell in those size stadiums in the first place. Especially when you consider that not one of the quarter finals in New Zealand sold out, with much smaller stadiums.

I really don't think that will be an issue for England 2015, perhaps for Japan 2019 however.
England is in a far superior position geographically than New Zealand.
First of all there are 5 Tier 1 nations within a 2 hour flight; whereas New Zealand's nearest Tier 1 neighbour is a 3-5 hour flight away.
Second of all, England is a melting pot of cultures and houses several communities including Ozzie, Kiwi & South African amongst others. Conversely, New Zealand doesn't have such substantial immigrants so relied on them coming short-term.

irishh_bob

bamboozle wrote: »

if i was a billionaire i'd love to stump up the money for Ireland to host the world cup, get the GAA on board (they grew quiet fond of the extra payments for renting out croker)

maybe more realistically we could aim to co-host it with Italy or scotland, would be good for the game in Italy if they were to co-host it.

my 1st reaction was ITALY ? , thats too far away from ireland but then i realised its closer to ireland than australia is to new zealand and they co hosted the 1st world cup , not a bad idea at all

Munster Blogger

irishh_bob wrote: »

my 1st reaction was ITALY ? , thats too far away from ireland but then i realised its closer to ireland than australia is to new zealand and they co hosted the 1st world cup , not a bad idea at all

Its a bit of a trip for fans. If their team is playing in Belfast on a Sat and then in Italy on the Wednesday.

I think Ireland, Wales and Scotland would be a really good option. Ferry connections could easily cater for traveling support

8-10

Munster Blogger wrote: »

I think Ireland, Wales and Scotland would be a really good option. Ferry connections could easily cater for traveling support

That would mean Wales hosting a game at 5 different world cups, out of only 10 from 1987 - 2023. :eek: Would be pretty impressive for such a small nation.

But I agree, would be a great option.

Munster Blogger

8-10 wrote: »

That would mean Wales hosting a game at 5 different world cups, out of only 10 from 1987 - 2023. :eek: Would be pretty impressive for such a small nation.

But I agree, would be a great option.

The Millennium Stadium is an impressive stadium for a small country. Great place for a rugby game

CIARAN_BOYLE

Munster Blogger wrote: »

Its a bit of a trip for fans. If their team is playing in Belfast on a Sat and then in Italy on the Wednesday.

Don't see it happening but if it did two groups would have all their games in Ireland and two would have all their games in Italy probably

Munster Blogger

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Don't see it happening but if it did two groups would have all their games in Ireland and two would have all their games in Italy probably

I don't see it happening it either. It would essentially split the world cup into two competitions. I think with GAA cooperation Ireland could host the world cup on its own.

New Zealand don't exactly have a selection of huge stadia. But there would be no question The Aviva would be too small for a Final , maybe even too small for a semi-final

Cork24

If Ireland had it in 2023 i would Hope Ireland would have more Sports Grounds :cool: then just what we have and the State their in.

.ak

Funny thing is if we got to the semi, or finals.. would the tone of this discussion be different? Or rather would it be discussed by the people who count?

JustinDee

Answer to thread title is a simple and singular, no.

Podge_irl

It's not gonna happen. This is the last time a small country is going to host it.