Railfan Association

steamengine

Why is there no dedicated association for rail enthusiasts/gricers/spotters in this country? The closest enthusiast grouping appears to be the Irish Railcar Gricers Association. Their brief however would appear to exclude those whose interest would be centred around locomotives and hauled stock.

The RPSI, though consisting of many dedicated enthusiasts, is in the main a restoration grouping, similarly the ITG. The IRRS is mainly a historical society. IRN is clearly subscribed by 'dyed in the wool' enthusiasts but is not an association as such. There are many similar UK based sites but Irish coverage appears to be limited.

Does anyone think that a more generalised railfan grouping would be a runner ? By this I mean enthusiasts who have an observational interest in all that goes on in the present Irish Rail system, and who enjoy the world of either spotting, photographing, tripping by train etc., without necessarily wanting to re-construct an old branch line or engage in restoring old engines.

What do other posters here think ?

Niles

Whatever you do don't call it the Irish Railfan's Association...

steamengine

Niles wrote: »

Whatever you do don't call it the Irish Railfan's Association...

Had crossed my mind ok ! No need to call it anything yet, just an idea for the time being.

flyingsnail

Are you thinking along the lines of a web based group with real world meet-up every now and then?

steamengine

flyingsnail wrote: »

Are you thinking along the lines of a web based group with real world meet-up every now and then?

Yes, and possibly with regular meet ups rather than every now and then. Train and Rail Systems would possibly be sufficient web-wise and it could, for example, be called 'Boardean Railfan Association'. However that is just a basic idea and only an opinion. Initially, I would like to find out if there is sufficient interest amongst the various enthusiasts here.

Then assuming there is sufficient interest find out what everyone's ideas are regarding the formation of an association, form a consensus and take it from there.

corktina

BRA? :rolleyes:

steamengine

corktina wrote: »

BRA? :rolleyes:

Knew I could count on your 'support' :pac:

lord lucan

corktina wrote: »

BRA? :rolleyes:

I can just picture a load of Boardsies at the end of platform 5 at Connolly wearing official BRA bra's(high vis obviously,H&S first)!:pac:

On a serious note,good idea Steamengine. Problem these days in my eyes is that the Irish Railway scene isn't as interesting to many as it once was. Loco hauled services are limited to Cork & Belfast and some freight,semaphore signals are on their last legs in a handful of locations and railcars rule the roost on most other services.

steamengine

lord lucan wrote: »

I can just picture a load of Boardsies at the end of platform 5 at Connolly wearing official BRA bra's(high vis obviously,H&S first)!:pac:

On a serious note,good idea Steamengine. Problem these days in my eyes is that the Irish Railway scene isn't as interesting to many as it once was. Loco hauled services are limited to Cork & Belfast and some freight,semaphore signals are on their last legs in a handful of locations and railcars rule the roost on most other services.

Just have to change that to Boards Rail Enthusiast Association which should be fine I see your other point too, not really into railcars myself but one never knows what the future holds particularly regarding freight. I'm curious as to why the railcar gricer's association limited their activities to railcars - does anyone know why ? If they were to broaden their brief surely more enthusiasts would join up !

corktina

one can only hope that any assoc set up wont end up dominated by persons from the other island...

Niles

steamengine wrote: »

Just have to change that to Boards Rail Enthusiast Association which should be fine I see your other point too, not really into railcars myself but one never knows what the future holds particularly regarding freight. I'm curious as to why the railcar gricer's association limited their activities to railcars - does anyone know why ? If they were to broaden their brief surely more enthusiasts would join up !

I think the IRGA is more a web forum than an organisation as such, certainly not in the same vain as say, the IRRS or MRSI, anyone with a yuku account can join, just like Irish Railway Modeller, Irish Transport, etc. I think at the time the IRGA forum was set up it was more to stand out, at the time most attention being focused on locos. Personally as long as its an ICR and runs to time I'm not that bothered about such things.

steamengine

Niles wrote: »

I think the IRGA is more a web forum than an organisation as such, certainly not in the same vain as say, the IRRS or MRSI, anyone with a yuku account can join, just like Irish Railway Modeller, Irish Transport, etc. I think at the time the IRGA forum was set up it was more to stand out, at the time most attention being focused on locos. Personally as long as its an ICR and runs to time I'm not that bothered about such things.

They do run occasional outings AFAICS and are more of a web forum as you say. Just looking at the input to T&RS and in particular how the photo thread has being enthusiastically subscribed to, prompted me to start this thread.

Basically to find out if occasionally for starters, posters might wish to engage collectively in, for example, some rail photography at a future date. Not necessarily photography either, in fact any railfan activity there might be a consensus for.

Does this type of group activity, call it spotting, gricing or whatever, already take place through any of the existing associations ? If not, I would envisage a group based out of T&RS.

lord lucan

I don't believe many get together to actively grice together. Many have met through forums like IRN and IRGA and become friends or knew each other from over the years gricing at Connolly and Heuston. A lot still do their own thing and turn out together for RPSI/MRSI/IRRS tours and have a few beers and swap stories. Easy to spot,either at the bar or if it's a loco run,in the coach behind the loco listening to a bit of GM thrash.

Personally i've little interest in photographing the current scene,it's pretty boring now. I only bring the camera out for heritage runs. Would be good if fellow boardsies could get together on a heritage run or organise a day out together to D&CDR/Cultra/Moyasta etc.

corktina

If its a day out we're talking, how about a WRC trip? we could count heads too whilst there!

steamengine

lord lucan wrote: »

I don't believe many get together to actively grice together. Many have met through forums like IRN and IRGA and become friends or knew each other from over the years gricing at Connolly and Heuston. A lot still do their own thing and turn out together for RPSI/MRSI/IRRS tours and have a few beers and swap stories. Easy to spot,either at the bar or if it's a loco run,in the coach behind the loco listening to a bit of GM thrash.

Personally i've little interest in photographing the current scene,it's pretty boring now. I only bring the camera out for heritage runs. Would be good if fellow boardsies could get together on a heritage run or organise a day out together to D&CDR/Cultra/Moyasta etc.

That sounds like a very good idea to me, I'd be up for any loco hauled trip !

corktina wrote: »

If its a day out we're talking, how about a WRC trip? we could count heads too whilst there!

Not too sure about that one, might return politicised and railcar-ised !!!

lord lucan

5mph over River Fergus bridge in a 2 car railcar in ICR colours would be enough to push me over the edge!:pac:

foggy_lad

corktina wrote: »

If its a day out we're talking, how about a WRC trip? we could count heads too whilst there!

Don't count yourselves or Wot might accuse ye of deliberately doctoring the results:D

steamengine

lord lucan wrote: »

I don't believe many get together to actively grice together. Many have met through forums like IRN and IRGA and become friends or knew each other from over the years gricing at Connolly and Heuston..................

I would suggest that boardsies could indicate their intentions to be in a certain place around such and such a time, if they welcomed the possibility of some other railfan company. I intend to get out with the camera again shortly, possibly up to the Lady's Bridge near Skerries. I want to try and catch a pic of the morning Tara round 11 am or so, although this can be a hit and miss affair. :rolleyes: However the Enterprise can be depended upon around the same time plus loads of railcars. Any other boardsie railfan who wishes to join me is more than welcome, and may contact me via PM.

In the case of stations, there still seems to be an issue to being on a platform if you're not travelling. If a group were to grice at a particular station it would be nice to do it in within whatever rules apply. What is the situation regarding this ??? Recently at a certain station the guy in the ticket office mentioned 'contacting Huestion' to get permission. Does anyone know what this procedure is ??? Rather than complicate his life, I went to a road bridge instead.

lord lucan

I haven't hung around train stations in years with the exception of waiting for a heritage run train. Years ago i'd usually arrive by train and just walk around to wherever my favourite spot was to watch the movements. There was never an issue and no one really bothered you,often IE staff would come over and talk to you and shoot the breeze.

Anecdotally i've heard that since the security company came in some time back it's been a little more difficult. It can depend on who you get on the day tbh.I'd say the best bet would be to find an IE staff member at the barriers and ask nicely if it's alright to take a few pics and explain why you're there. Much like plane spotters,there's no harm being done or operations being interfered with.

corktina

when first over here years ago I caused amazement in Mallow by asking permission to be on the station..."shur" says himself "and dont forget to walk down to the old engine shed..." would it happen today? (apart from there being no old shed to walk to)

steamengine

corktina wrote: »

when first over here years ago I caused amazement in Mallow by asking permission to be on the station..."shur" says himself "and dont forget to walk down to the old engine shed..." would it happen today? (apart from there being no old shed to walk to)

It seems our old Irish way of doing things is slowly disappearing. You can't jump over ticket barriers either. Many moons ago at the end of steam, there was a clatter of old steam engines parked in a siding just short of Malahide station. Myself and a pal asked the Station master, could we go down to the engines and like you say he agreed, accompanied by a warning to keep a sharp look out for any other trains. Great afternoon on the various footplates - we had.
All on their way to be chopped up for razor blades !!! :mad:

corktina

which ones were they? do you rememebr?

steamengine

corktina wrote: »

which ones were they? do you rememebr?

It was around 1960, all black tender engines 0-6-0 or close to that wheel arrangement, that's the limit of my recall. Didn't really associate them as being GNR.

steamengine

foggy_lad wrote: »

Don't count yourselves or Wot might accuse ye of deliberately doctoring the results:D

Creative addition or creative subtraction depending on which side of the track you're on

Losty Dublin

corktina wrote: »

when first over here years ago I caused amazement in Mallow by asking permission to be on the station..."shur" says himself "and dont forget to walk down to the old engine shed..." would it happen today? (apart from there being no old shed to walk to)

Ah the good old days, they sure were. I can remember the times when you'd walk up the train and into the guards van and he'd be delighted for the company for a while

As somebody who works for both DCDR and the RPSI on working trains, the H+S issues are a bastard to deal with for 95% of the time as they hinder a lot of common sense stuff, both operationally and for the careful photographer/gricer who wants to get a few good snaps. The other 5% of the time is a different story however and it's the 5% who make the hard line position the only option. The likes of the eejit who wants to climb up signal posts, a gob****e who can't on why he can't set up his tripod on running track or the sort who would use carriage keys to get into cabs; this is a tip of some of the stuff that has it ruined for the most of us at both ends of the railway.

Only a month ago I was on an RPSI trip that has arrived into Connolly and as the set was hauled from the platform to clear it for an incoming DART which was pulling in, a guy hopped from platforms 5 to 6 to, in his words, "get an application form to join":eek: Sadly, he is the sort of reckless twat that makes the at times OTT rules very very essential.

eth0

How about Irish Bus & Greenway appreciation society

corktina

ah your sarcasm does you no credit. You should understand that many of us on here are ardent railway enthusiasts and yet oppose crack pot schemes like the WRC AND can see merit in express buses and greenways.

steamengine

eth0 wrote: »

How about Irish Bus & Greenway appreciation society

Why not indeed, but a thread entitled 'Railfan' Association is hardly the place :rolleyes:

dmcronin

Unfortunately, the railfan/rail buff/trainspotter (hate the last term!) fraternity or whatever you like to call it seems to have a higher percentage of fruitbats than most other walks of life, present company excluded I'm sure.

dmcronin

dmcronin wrote: »

Unfortunately, the railfan/rail buff/trainspotter (hate the last term!) fraternity or whatever you like to call it seems to have a higher percentage of fruitbats than most other walks of life, present company excluded I'm sure.

Same here. Always seems to be used in a derogatory sense.

steamengine

Karsini wrote: »

Same here. Always seems to be used in a derogatory sense.

+1........I think 'gricer' sounds better, even more so than railfan.

Judgement Day

I can't see what's wrong with 'railway enthusiast' - why does everything have to be dumbed down? Birder instead of birdwatcher.....:( or, in my case, ex-railway enthusiast....I'm FREE!!!!

steamengine

Judgement Day wrote: »

I can see what's wrong with 'railway enthusiast' - why does everything have to be dumbed down? Birder instead of birdwatcher.....:( or, in my case, ex-railway enthusiast....I'm FREE!!!!

In your case why not go the full hog ? - 'Erstwhile ferroequinologist extraordinaire'

dermo88

My view is that we are a pretty diverse group in our range of interests. Its just the case that the history has been fraught with splits and divisions. There are divisive phrases such as "Chicken Dinner", and its various derivatives that cause offence.

Terms such as the IRRS being described as "fossils" or the "CIE love in" can and do cause offence, even if they are amusing.

Describing the Department of Regional Development in Northern Ireland got me banned, but mind.....my penalty points were building over time.

The history of the boards.ie section of Commuting and Transport, with the Train and Rail systems subsection is relatively long. Again, its the product of evolution.

1. Irishrailwaynews started in 2001 as a mass gathering online of Irish railway enthusiasts.
2. Railusers.ie or Platform11 started in 2002 as it looked like several closures were going to take place, and they were created to lobby to prevent that on one hand, and lobby for further development and improvements on another.

Naturally there was a division on the views of 1 and 2. One divisive point was the Western Rail Corridor from Athenry-Sligo and on to Derry, upon which reams have been written already.....(Huge thread and counting). This against the Interconnector, and building the line to Navan. Ironically, none of which looks like going ahead with the financial crisis.

3. The repeat in Ireland of the UK 1990's Locomotive vs DMU debate, which was also divisive in other ways. Enthusiasts want the Locomotive hauled stock, whereas modernisers want the optimum mix, DMU's where appropriate, Loco hauled where economic.

From my own perspective at least, its whats best for Ireland that I'd like. Again, thats a divisive issue. Certainly over the years its been:

(a) Extension of DART and electrification.
(b) Interconnector.
(c) Improving speeds and service frequencies.
(d) Following best International practice
(e) Developing railfreight
(f) Making the railway relevant to modern Ireland rather than an anachronistic joke.

Amongst many. Boards.ie has become a refugee camp for those alienated/banned by railusers.ie and irishrailwaynews, and it has many of the older posters from both sites going back 10 years. As such it is a valuable database in itself from the research perspective. Ask almost anything, and you are certain to get a valid answer within 72 hours.

From an enthusiasts perspective....what do I like.

(a) Getting there is half the fun.....
(b) Once its faster, affordable, comfortable.
(c) Steam, Diesel, Multiple Unit, don't care once the scenery is nice, the service is good, its on time, the food is nice, and a few beers also as long as it does not annoy other passengers.
(d) Of course....I like Loco hauled, but I am not obsessed with it. Its a preference like Steak or Lobster which is dying out due to modernisation. I won't lose sleep over it, and if I want it.....I'll traipse overseas for it as part of a holiday.

But its also as I have learned, cherishing the best of the past, relishing the best of the future. There are valuable posters here, even those I have offended from time to time. Time is a healer and time teaches.....thats for certain, and its also about maturity and courtesy as well, even though ribbing mild sarcasm can seem like fun at the time, it does offend.

Regards

dermo88

dmcronin

What goes on in the railfan fraternity across the water. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DN1yhNz4Rc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Jpuu-GK6w4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTzgfAH8inU&feature=related

lord lucan

dmcronin wrote: »

What goes on in the railfan fraternity across the water. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DN1yhNz4Rc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Jpuu-GK6w4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTzgfAH8inU&feature=related

I feel distinctly normal after watching that! Never understood the flailing arms out the windows lark myself,a big smile on my face is a sure sign i'm enjoying some GM thrash.:)

steamengine

In the BBC series 'Great British Railway Journeys' Michael Portillo interviews some train spotters. Scroll to 8:40 minutes, 1st video. A fairly benign leisure activity, sure after all I do the same ! :D

dermo88

Seeing the British Bashing fraternity made me realise there was a mild Malaysian equivalent.

Myself and a few Malay (ethnic Muslim lads), got absolutely sozzled on beer and cigarettes, and some illicit cigarettes.

My one abiding memory is the 70km climb up Bukit Berapit, hauled by a 1500hp engine that sounds like an 071. First prizes for the one who finds it, because for a rail enthusiast, its an excuse to emigrate.

Go baby climb,

You can make it,

Sing to the hills,

(Meanwhile in the background, we have "World Hold On" by Bob Sinclair, and around 10km from the top of the gradient an illicit "1/2 E tab" kicks in.

FANTASTIC, We had popped 40 minutes before.

Sing to the hills you beauty.....SING.....

This was a booze fueled teenage holiday to Galway, Waterford or Wexford, the difference being, we could actually afford the train ticket and a crate of beer for everyone as Adults. What a difference. Youth forever, and safety regulations out the window.

She roars her heart out, 200 tonnes in tow. The train guard is pissed, and he does not care. We gave him beer. And we are toking. Along with the clag of blue smoke from the Class 25 is a clag of another kind from the first coach.. Pass the Dutchy on the left hand side.

The roar of the turbo. The doors on Malaysian trains are Pullman style, they close IN. You can smoke to your hearts content as long as its not in the air conditioned section.

And then there is the descent down the 1/80. She stops singing, but then there is the noise of wheel against joint.

In more ways than one.

Do I want this in Ireland? No

Because while its nice, its effing inefficient, its the way of the past. Its nice to land it overseas.

Oh and if in the highly unlikely event I fall out of the coach stoned and drunk,

Its my tough poop.

But by Christ, the Bashers seem more bitchy than a bunch of queens in the George on Gin Tonic and sympathy.

Love it or loathe it, or the people, the aim should always be, around the world:

Getting there is half the fun.