Diesels Hybrids why so slow to market?

BostonB · 13-10-2011 11:26am #1

Atomic Pineapple · 13-10-2011 11:28am

Small power band?

BostonB · 13-10-2011 11:29am

Yah whosy wotsit?

Zubeneschamali · 13-10-2011 11:30am

BostonB wrote: »

Diesels Hybrids why so slow to market?

No interest in diesel in California or Japan.

BostonB · 13-10-2011 11:31am

Really? Didn't realise that.

OwlsZat · 13-10-2011 11:34am

Diesels although plenty of people have the notion they are "green" are still a step sideways rather than a step forward.

pajo1981 · 13-10-2011 11:38am

Cost-benifits still don't really add up.

pajo1981 · 13-10-2011 11:42am

BostonB wrote: »

Really? Didn't realise that.

What difference does it make?

OwlsZat · 13-10-2011 11:50am

Diesel engines are also far heavier than there Petrol counterparts, which makes them more unsuitable again in the world where its all about power/weight.

challengemaster · 13-10-2011 11:57am

OwlsZat wrote: »

Diesel engines are also far heavier than there Petrol counterparts, which makes them more unsuitable again in the world where its all about power/weight.

They're not far heavier. Slightly heavier yes, but it's not really anything that will have a substantial difference in terms of real world use.

If diesels were slow, heavy and useless nobody would use them. They also wouldn't be more fuel efficient if that was the case

wersal gummage · 13-10-2011 11:59am

There was a diesel hybrid reviewed in Irish times recently. One of the French

commited · 13-10-2011 12:15pm

New Volvo V60 (iirc) diesel hybrid is due to be out soon.

http://green.autoblog.com/2011/09/06/fully-charged-volvo-v60-diesel-plug-in-hybrid/

I like the idea. The reasons petrol hybrids were first to be released to the market is mainly due to the fact that diesel is slowly coming into the US market but 5-10 years ago was not really an option considered by the general public. A bit like Ireland 15 years ago.

Zubeneschamali · 13-10-2011 1:54pm

wersal gummage wrote: »

There was a diesel hybrid reviewed in Irish times recently. One of the French

Peugeot have developed an electric rear axle system which they can fit to any FWD car, so expect diesel hybrid 308, 508, 3008, 5008 etc. etc. shortly.

BostonB · 13-10-2011 2:00pm

pajo1981 wrote: »

What difference does it make?

I assume thats where the hybrids are coming from.

BostonB · 13-10-2011 2:10pm

There a lot of diesels motors on a par cost wise these days with petrol. No?

You can get small diesels, and considering their range you'd think it would be a good combination with an electric motor. Considering diesel use has exploded, it almost more popular than petrol in some countries, switching from diesel to diesels hybrid would in theory use less diesel.

Considering we had the 3L lupo and all that quite a while ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Lupo#Lupo_3L

pajo1981 · 13-10-2011 2:22pm

BostonB wrote: »

I assume thats where the hybrids are coming from.

Japnese develop cars for the world market not just domestic.

pippip · 13-10-2011 2:38pm

The Toyota prius (as an example) has sold the most units in Japan and the usa.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius

In Japan, diesel has been seen as "dirty" for years and their culture has never got around this.

In the usa, diesel car sales have always struggled in part due to the weather. They are far harder to start in winter and need block heaters to get them going during the snow which rules out a fair market.

In general I'd say the research and development departments are putting all their effort into perfecting the electric side of the car (which is receiving the most criticism) rather than focusing on diesel when they already have ready made small petrol engines working well.

heate · 13-10-2011 2:50pm

Actually diesels failure in America is due in part to the oil crisis and GM's converting of gasoline engine blocks into diesel engines as a shock, not thought out properly, reaction and as you can imagine diesel pressure busted the blocks the cars produced horrendous soot and no power.
The American consumer is an odd one, Audi faced dismal sales following an unintended acceleration issue in the 80's which ruined their reputation sure sales are only now recovering to previous levels!
American's want diesels Europe just has to make them compliant with EPA regs which are more stringent as the EU is pro diesel, the EPA is anti other **** that comes outta the exhaust; not just c02

Zubeneschamali · 13-10-2011 3:05pm

pajo1981 wrote: »

Japnese develop cars for the world market not just domestic.

The only major market interested in diesels is Europe. Hybrids are popular in Japan and in California, markets which don't care about diesel.

Diesel hybrids will come from European manufacturers, just like diesel hot hatches, diesel luxury cars, diesel Le Mans racers and so on.

challengemaster · 13-10-2011 3:47pm

heate wrote: »

Actually diesels failure in America is due in part to the oil crisis and GM's converting of gasoline engine blocks into diesel engines as a shock, not thought out properly, reaction and as you can imagine diesel pressure busted the blocks the cars produced horrendous soot and no power.
The American consumer is an odd one, Audi faced dismal sales following an unintended acceleration issue in the 80's which ruined their reputation sure sales are only now recovering to previous levels!
American's want diesels Europe just has to make them compliant with EPA regs which are more stringent as the EU is pro diesel, the EPA is anti other **** that comes outta the exhaust; not just c02

More like, diesel is more expensive (comparatively to petrol), they don't have any oil issues in the US (most parts, anyway) so they don't need to worry about the cost of fuel. Fuel prices are half what they are here. It's why things like the Hummer are still in existence, 10mpg over there isn't something they care about.

Also as diesel is used commercially, trucks, etc - there's still a very negative image of it in the US that it's "dirty" and wouldn't be good for a normal car.

BostonB · 13-10-2011 4:03pm

Fuel being so cheap is really the issue in the US.

Stinicker · 13-10-2011 5:15pm

Alot of European Diesels are already more efficient than Petrol Hybrids, I had a VW Jetta 2.0l DSG auto on hire in Australia in 2010 and I was getting 66mpg out of it, with 4 adults and luggage in the car weighing around half a ton, the warm weather suited the Diesel and having it stuck on Cruise control at 110km/h on dead straight roads, excellent machine and my next car will be one.

heate · 13-10-2011 10:42pm

challengemaster wrote: »

More like, diesel is more expensive (comparatively to petrol), they don't have any oil issues in the US (most parts, anyway) so they don't need to worry about the cost of fuel. Fuel prices are half what they are here. It's why things like the Hummer are still in existence, 10mpg over there isn't something they care about.

Also as diesel is used commercially, trucks, etc - there's still a very negative image of it in the US that it's "dirty" and wouldn't be good for a normal car.

Fuel isn't so cheap when your using 3x as much of the stuff at .65c a liter. The Americans never stop harping on about gas prices - they drive huge distances and to absolutely everywhere, however they do see 30MPG (US MPG that is) as being very good!
Diesel has an image problem as you said. That's why MBUSA and BMWNA have only offered big diesels (335d X535d and the ML320 E320 etc) although that's not out of line with other entry level offerings but it hardly helps promote fuel efficiency.
There are 3 main markets for cars in this world that matter Europe (satisfied with diesel) USA (couldn't give a flying f**k or buys a hybrid) and China (doesn't do diesel)
A diesel hybrid would be great though it would offer all the around town advantages of a hybrid and the extra urban advantages of a diesel

Bodhan · 13-10-2011 10:47pm

I drove the new Peugeot 3008 Hybrid 4, it's coming out here next year and it's great.
It doesn't feel like a Hybrid, it's got a decent 163bhp 2.0ltr diesel under the bonnet and an electric engine strapped to the back axle, so it's a big car, a 4wd and a diesel.
All they need to do is get the pricing right and it's sorted.

There's a video on youtube if you want to see me drive it in France.

Diesels Hybrids why so slow to market?

Comments