Expired license

itsallaboutmis

Hi ,
My wife who has an expired provisional got stopped today driving my car which she normally doesnt and so had no L plates or accompanying driver. Didnt realise the license was expired till she checked it. has to produce insurance and her license within ten days. what type of fine is she looking at....

0O7

itsallaboutmis wrote: »

Hi ,
My wife who has an expired provisional got stopped today driving my car which she normally doesnt and so had no L plates or accompanying driver. Didnt realise the license was expired till she checked it. has to produce insurance and her license within ten days. what type of fine is she looking at....

A Fine for No Licence
A Fine for No L Plates
A Fine for Fail to produce Licence (if she dosnt within 10 days)
A Fine for No insurance and a Disqualifaction (if shes not insured in your car
A Fine for Fail to produce insurance


Basicually its gonna be alot. wont be so bad if she has insurance (although technically she can be done for no insurance (even if she paid her premiunm) as having no licence would render your policy null and void.

itsallaboutmis

I have rang insurance and she is fully covered so the insurance is not a factor. so at least that is not the case..cheers though

Andrew33

Get and apply for a renewal licence immediately, make sure she produces her licence at station, doesn't matter if it's out of date, can't be done for "not producing" if she produces even an out of date licence (and if you have a receipt for the renewal well and good). She (I presume) has not had her licence removed from her by a court so no major issues.

itsallaboutmis

thanks for the advice 007, she honestly just forgot about her license and her car has all mthe required above and her own policy on it too.

0O7

itsallaboutmis wrote: »

thanks for the advice 007, she honestly just forgot about her license and her car has all mthe required above and her own policy on it too.

wont be so bad so, is it out long? maybe the judge will keep it low if he believes it was a genuine error!

best of luck with it.

itsallaboutmis

thanks andrew, her license is completely clean and she went straight away to the tax centre and got her application form and will besending it off in the am. then she will go to the station and eat a big slice of humble pie and hope for forgiveness lol.

coylemj

0O7 wrote: »

wont be so bad if she has insurance (although technically she can be done for no insurance (even if she paid her premiunm) as having no licence would render your policy null and void.

Where did you get that from?

An insurance policy is only rendered void if you have been disqualified or never held a licence. Simply allowing your licence to expire has no effect whatsoever on your insurance cover.

itsallaboutmis

Our insurance company said as much as her license was only out of date and held no points or endorsements that she remained covered..hopefully it will work out for her. thanks for all the help.

0O7

coylemj wrote: »

Where did you get that from?

An insurance policy is only rendered void if you have been disqualified or never held a licence. Simply allowing your licence to expire has no effect whatsoever on your insurance cover.

No, there is many different reasons why your policy can be cancelled or rendered void...

Not declaring accidents / claims
Not declaring convictions
Not declaring points
Not being the registered owner of the vehicle (if your the policy holder)
Not having a Current driving license


That is just some of the reasons why I have seen peoples policies become void

coylemj

0O7 wrote: »

No, there is many different reasons why your policy can be cancelled or rendered void...

Not declaring accidents / claims
Not declaring convictions
Not declaring points
Not being the registered owner of the vehicle (if your the policy holder)
Not having a Current driving license


That is just some of the reasons why I have seen peoples policies become void

You're trying to expand the discussion to cover non-declaration of risk issues, let's stick to the driving licence.

Legally they they cannot render the policy void if your licence simply expires nor can they include that in the policy. Can you quote me the name of an insurance company who tries to include this condition (must have a current licence) and I'll gladly check out their policy.

Kosseegan

0O7 wrote: »

No, there is many different reasons why your policy can be cancelled or rendered void...

Not declaring accidents / claims
Not declaring convictions
Not declaring points
Not being the registered owner of the vehicle (if your the policy holder)
Not having a Current driving license


That is just some of the reasons why I have seen peoples policies become void

Those thing make the policy voidable, not void.
If the policy had not been avoided at the time she was stopped she would not be guilty of driving without insurance even if there were breaches of the policy conditions.

MagicSean

No L Plates
Driving Unaccompanied
No Licence
Failing to produce licence
Failing to produce licence within ten days

She is still insured though as the insurance company is obliged to provide third party cover.

0O7

Kosseegan wrote: »

Those thing make the policy voidable, not void.
If the policy had not been avoided at the time she was stopped she would not be guilty of driving without insurance even if there were breaches of the policy conditions.

yes, that is why is said :

"different reasons why your policy can be cancelled or rendered void..."

"can be" being the main words.... i never said it automatically becomes void. depends on the circumstances and insurance company.
Basicually they will cover now as there is no loss etc...

If you paid your policy and 6 months later you crashed and it emerged you had no D/L. do you think the insurance company will pay up or declare that the policy was void???

I have seen examples where people had insurance policies and the company declared they were void (at the time they were driving several days earlier) for a reasons : Had no CURRENT driving licence at the time of driving and another for a different reason....

They can do it. im certain.

0O7

Kosseegan wrote: »

Those thing make the policy voidable, not void.
If the policy had not been avoided at the time she was stopped she would not be guilty of driving without insurance even if there were breaches of the policy conditions.

The insurance company is in no way obliged to provide cove rto somebody with no driving licence.

Expired licence = no licence.

coylemj

0O7 wrote: »

I have seen examples where people had insurance policies and the company declared they were void (at the time they were driving several days earlier) for a reasons : Had no CURRENT driving licence at the time of driving and another for a different reason....

They can do it. im certain.

Name an insurance company who claim they can void the policy because the driver's licence has expired.

0O7

coylemj wrote: »

Name an insurance company who claim they can void the policy because the driver's licence has expired.

FBD

A person involved in a single vehicle accident whos insurance was declared void and they would not pay up as at the time of driving, her provisional driving licence was expired.

coylemj

0O7 wrote: »

FBD

A person involved in a single vehicle accident whos insurance was declared void and they would not pay up as at the time of driving, her provisional driving licence was expired.

Can't see how they got away with that, the motor policy document makes no mention of that condition...

51: Including Named Learner Permit/Provisional Licence Holders

The Company will not indemnify the Insured or other persons while any vehicle described in the Schedule hereto is being driven by a person who is the holder of a Learner Permit/Provisional Licence only, other than any person named in the Schedule against this endorsement number

http://www.fbd.ie/media/FBD/pdf/fbd-pmv-policy-book.pdf

There is no mention that the named driver must hold a current provisional licence/learner permit, just that they are covered as long as they are named on the policy.

bath handle

0O7 wrote: »

Kosseegan wrote: »

Those thing make the policy voidable, not void.
If the policy had not been avoided at the time she was stopped she would not be guilty of driving without insurance even if there were breaches of the policy conditions.

The insurance company is in no way obliged to provide cove rto somebody with no driving licence.

Expired licence = no licence.

ever heard of directive 85/5 ec ?

0O7

bath handle wrote: »

ever heard of directive 85/5 ec ?

TBH no, but please fill me in

0O7

coylemj wrote: »

Can't see how they got away with that, the motor policy document makes no mention of that condition...

51: Including Named Learner Permit/Provisional Licence Holders

The Company will not indemnify the Insured or other persons while any vehicle described in the Schedule hereto is being driven by a person who is the holder of a Learner Permit/Provisional Licence only, other than any person named in the Schedule against this endorsement number

http://www.fbd.ie/media/FBD/pdf/fbd-pmv-policy-book.pdf

There is no mention that the named driver must hold a current provisional licence/learner permit, just that they are covered as long as they are named on the policy.

but they are not the holder of a licence if it has expired.
When something expires its gone...

if this is the case, why would a licence have a expiry date? It could just be a system of get a licence and have it for the rest of your life?

coylemj

You're misreading the clause..

The Company will not indemnify the Insured or other persons while any vehicle described in the Schedule hereto is being driven by a person who is the holder of a Learner Permit/Provisional Licence only, other than any person named in the Schedule against this endorsement number

What they're saying is that anyone who has a provisional licence or learner permit is explicitly excluded from cover, unless they're named in the schedule i.e. they are a named driver.

My point is that there is no qualifier to say that anyone named in the schedule needs to have a current provisional licence/learner permit/full licence to be covered.

bath handle

0O7 wrote: »

bath handle wrote: »

ever heard of directive 85/5 ec ?

TBH no, but please fill me in

go and read it. If you read the law relating to motor insurance you might be able to contribute sensibly to a discussion about it.

Our man in Havana

There is a world of difference between having no licence and having an expired licence.

0O7

bath handle wrote: »

go and read it. If you read the law relating to motor insurance you might be able to contribute sensibly to a discussion about it.

i cant seem to be able to find it????
you need to be more specific in your back up reference???
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:1985:002:0020:0020:EN:PDF 85/5/eec here is to do with seed in third world countries????

Please show me a link to back up this 85/5/ec you speak of.


And also for your own info, an insurance company voiding a policy for any reason is not nothing to do with the law, its the insurance companies own procedure / policy.

0O7

Our man in Havana wrote: »

There is a world of difference between having no licence and having an expired licence.

I dont think there is much of a difference... The charge / summons for driving on an expired licence is "Driving without a driving Licence" (The exact same charge / summons for driving with no Licence...

"On (DATE) at ( PLACE) a public place, in (District court area), did drive a MPV, reg number (_______) without holding a driving licence for the time being having effect and licensing you to drive such vehicle.

Contrary to Section 38(1) RTA 1961 and Sec 102 RTA 1961 (as Amended by Section 23 RTA 2002 "

So.... driving with an expired licence is the same as driving with no licence.

MagicSean

0O7 wrote: »

i cant seem to be able to find it????
you need to be more specific in your back up reference???
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:1985:002:0020:0020:EN:PDF 85/5/eec here is to do with seed in third world countries????

Please show me a link to back up this 85/5/ec you speak of.


And also for your own info, an insurance company voiding a policy for any reason is not nothing to do with the law, its the insurance companies own procedure / policy.

It basically says that the insurance company musy provide third party cover even if the policy holder lied when getting the policy. In the event of a claim they pay out and reclaim from the policy holder.

ted1

With an expired licence she can't be done for having no l plates or unaccompanied driver as she effectively had no licence and those rules apply to provisonal licence holders

Milk & Honey

0O7 wrote: »

i cant seem to be able to find it????
you need to be more specific in your back up reference???
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:1985:002:0020:0020:EN:PDF 85/5/eec here is to do with seed in third world countries????

Please show me a link to back up this 85/5/ec you speak of.


And also for your own info, an insurance company voiding a policy for any reason is not nothing to do with the law, its the insurance companies own procedure / policy.

http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/7500-0.pdf

Amazing what you can find on the Dept of Transport website.

whydoibother?

I held a provisional license a few years ago and then decided to forget about learning to drive altogether for a while as I didn't have time to practice. I therefore didn't renew my license when it expired. I was aware that it had expired and never drove anywhere once it had.

I did however get a call from the insurance people fairly shortly afterwards to tell me that I was no longer covered as my license had expired.

coylemj

whydoibother? wrote: »

I held a provisional license a few years ago and then decided to forget about learning to drive altogether for a while as I didn't have time to practice. I therefore didn't renew my license when it expired. I was aware that it had expired and never drove anywhere once it had.

I did however get a call from the insurance people fairly shortly afterwards to tell me that I was no longer covered as my license had expired.

Why didn't you terminate the insurance policy after your driving licence expired so you'd get a pro rata refund?

I've never heard of an insurance company phoning a customer to say that their licence had expired, my insurance company hasn't a clue when my licence expires because they've never seen my licence. I fax'ed them the certificate of competency when I passed the test, they never asked to asked my full licence.

whydoibother?

coylemj wrote: »

Why didn't you terminate the insurance policy after your driving licence expired so you'd get a pro rata refund?

I've never heard of an insurance company phoning a customer to say that their licence had expired, my insurance company hasn't a clue when my licence expires because they've never seen my licence. I fax'ed them the certificate of competency when I passed the test, they never asked to asked my full licence.

I was a named driver on a parents policy. We didn't want to cancel the policy as they still wanted to drive.

I think it was actually the insurance broker that called us rather than the company.

Our man in Havana

None of his concern to be honest and he was talking crap anyways.

ANSI

0O7 wrote: »

A Fine for No Licence
A Fine for No L Plates
A Fine for Fail to produce Licence (if she dosnt within 10 days)
A Fine for No insurance and a Disqualifaction (if shes not insured in your car
A Fine for Fail to produce insurance


Basicually its gonna be alot. wont be so bad if she has insurance (although technically she can be done for no insurance (even if she paid her premiunm) as having no licence would render your policy null and void.

that isnot true