Who would steal the relic of the true cross from Holycross Monastery?

snafuk35

The relic of the true cross in Holycross, Co. Tipperary has been stolen!

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/christ-cross-relic-taken-in-raid-16062867.html

The legend of the true cross began when St. Helena the mother of St. Constantine or Constantine The Great, the first Roman Emperor, travelled to Jerusalem and discovered a Temple of Venus was built on Golgotha, the site of the crucifixion of Jesus.

St. Constantine is said to have been converted to Christianity when he saw a vision of the cross in the sky and put the symbol on the shields of his soldiers and won a decisive battle.

She had the temple torn down and three wooden cross were found intact in clay that had been used by the Roman and Jewish authorities to bury the site after the mysterious events following Jesus' death. An earthquake split the rocks, the veil of the Temple was torn and holy men rose out of their graves and Roman guards reported a man with a face like lightening opening Jesus tomb and rolling back the stone. After a sick woman was healed when she was placed on one of the crosses it was confirmed as the true cross on which Jesus was crucified.

St. Helena is said to have had a relic enclosed in silver which was kept in Jerusalem permanently while the three nails used to crucify Jesus and other relics of the cross were sent to the capital of the Eastern Roman Empire, Constantinople.

The Muslims later conquered Jerusalem and the relic was lost until the First Crusade when the Knights Templar secured the relic after they captured the city. It is said that the Ark of the Covenant and the Spear of Destiny (used to pierce Jesus' side) were also recovered. The Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem was established and the relic of the True Cross was borne in battle by the victorious Crusaders for more than a century. However at the Battle of Hattin, the Crusaders were defeated by Saladin and the relic was lost once again.
However there were rumours that Knights led by Richard The Lionheart recovered it once again.
Later Constantinople was sacked by the Crusaders and the relics of the True Cross became war booty.

The only credible account of the acquisition of the relic by Holycross is that given by O’Halloran who unfortunately did not indicate the source of his information. He states that Murtogh O’Brien, King of Thomond, received a gift of a piece of the True Cross, covered with gold, and ornamented with precious stones, from Pope Paschal II in 1110, and determined to found a monastery and dedicate it to the Holy Cross. He began the erection of this monastery at what is now Holycross but did not live to finish it. Dónal Mór O’Brien completed the church and monastery in 1169.

In 1169 the Normans invaded Ireland and at the battle of Thurles the Gaelic Irish carried the relic of the true cross into battle and defeated them.

Later however the local tribe and guardians of the relic and relatives of the O'Brien clan, were betrayed and slaughtered and their territory in North Tipperary fell into the hands of the Butlers of Ormonde. The relic remained in Holycross until the monastery was destroyed by Henry VIII during the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century.

After their defeat at the Battle of Kinsale, the Earls of Tyrone and Tyrconnell fled from Rathmullen, County Donegal and trailed a relic of true cross in the sea to protect them from storms. They failed to reach Spain because they were cast ashore in France. They travelled overland to Rome where they died.
The relic remained in Rome until 1977 when it was returned to Holycross after it was restored after an act was passed in Dáil Eireann in 1969 - 800 years after the Norman invasion.

Whoever carries the relic into battle will be invincible. It is a relic of extreme power and if it gets into the hands of an evil person the world will be in peril!

So who has stolen it?

jargon buster

two masked men, it says so in the article

maddragon

I don't know who stole it but I wish the Irish Rugby Team had it last weekend.

snafuk35

jargon buster wrote: »

two masked men, it says so in the article

But on whose behalf?

Neo-Nazis, pagans, occultists, the Chinese, Al-Qaeda?

The relic is of unspeakable power.

jargon buster

Unspeakable power??????
Its a bit of old wood.
I used to have a small cross as a child with a scrap of bone in it that belonged to St Francis of Assisi.

Was it genuine?
Was it bollocks.

snafuk35

jargon buster wrote: »

Unspeakable power??????
Its a bit of old wood.
I used to have a small cross as a child with a scrap of bone in it that belonged to St Francis of Assisi.

Was it genuine?
Was it bollocks.

I just showed you that it clearly came from Jerusalem and it clearly was a piece of the true cross of Jesus Christ Our Lord and Saviour.

Someone obviously cared enough to steal it didn't they?

As we speak evil people have the most precious Irish Catholic relic in their hands. They must be stopped!

seannash

Your trying to have a rational debate about a relic of Jesus Christ's cross.
That flawed on so many levels,the main one being that religion is a joke and any rational debate will prove that.

This unspeakable power,care to elaborate on it.

Also writing a story on the history of the relic on an internet forum does not constitute "proving" it is real.

You wont get any answers you like on here because most people on here who use rational thinking dont believe in God(well not the one described in the bible)

maddragon

I read somewhere once that if all the supposed timber pieces of the true cross were assembled together you could make a ship bigger than HMS Victory.

newmug

This is the Conspiracy Theories forum, not the athiest forum:rolleyes:


Whoever stole it, their motive is probably broadly based on one of three ideas:

1) They really do believe in its supernatural powers, and stole it because of that

2) They stole it for money, with a view to illegally selling it to some private art / antique collector in a few years when it will fetch a few pound

3) They stole it for money based on its scrap metal value, which is basically about a tenner.


Either way, its interesting to note that the thieves attributed some power or value to it, financial or otherwise.

rmacm

snafuk35 wrote: »

But on whose behalf?

Neo-Nazis, pagans, occultists, the Chinese, Al-Qaeda?

The relic is of unspeakable power.

Unspeakable power you say...based on what?

efb

Dana!

seannash

rmacm wrote: »

Unspeakable power you say...based on what?

Based on the fact the power is unspeakable he cant answer that:)

clever_name

A religious item of great power has been stolen... I know who my number one suspect is...

PirateShampoo

Cant be that powerfull if every army and person who had carrired it has lost.

Monty Burnz

snafuk35 wrote: »

As we speak evil people have the most precious Irish Catholic relic in their hands.

They got DANA?? :eek:

jackiebaron

Constantine the Great, the first Roman Emperor. ??????

Who the hell wrote this article??

jackiebaron

newmug wrote: »

This is the Conspiracy Theories forum, not the athiest forum:rolleyes:


Whoever stole it, their motive is probably broadly based on one of three ideas:

1) They really do believe in its supernatural powers, and stole it because of that

2) They stole it for money, with a view to illegally selling it to some private art / antique collector in a few years when it will fetch a few pound

3) They stole it for money based on its scrap metal value, which is basically about a tenner.


Either way, its interesting to note that the thieves attributed some power or value to it, financial or otherwise.

Definitely number 2.
You don't burn out a car when you've nicked something small and worthless. You burn out a car when you know you've got something big and priceless.

snafuk35

jackiebaron wrote: »

Constantine the Great, the first Roman Emperor. ??????

Who the hell wrote this article??

Pardon me I should have wrote 'first Christian Roman Emperor'. Happy now?:)

Samba

http://www.catholic.org/diocese/diocese_story.php?id=22071

Some exerts

As a result of its refusal to act, dozens of sacred relics are offered for sale on the Web site at any given moment. For instance, on the day we checked, we found a relic of the true cross of Jesus Christ being sold for $799. Bidding on an “extremely rare” collection of red liturgical vestments used by Pope St. Pius X in his private Vatican chapel started at $1,650. And a piece of hair from St. John Bosco could be had for just $20.

Unfortunately, eBay is not the only place where relics are being sold on-line. Serafin’s group organized in 1999 when it became apparent that the Internet was fueling a burgeoning black market in relics — both fake and authentic — which are routinely sold at grossly inflated prices.

“There is a big black market out there for relics,” Serafin said. “And there are a lot of fake relics. I once saw a feather in a reliquary that someone claimed was from the wing of the Holy Spirit, and someone bought it. There was an empty locket sold that the seller claimed was the air that Jesus breathed. There was a bogus hand of St. Stephen of Hungary for sale. I contacted Budapest, and got an e-mail back from a chancellor who said, ‘Rest assured we still have the hand.’”

Serafin’s group, which has about 200 members, rescues authentic, first-class relics by buying them. The group is also involved in restoring diocesan relic collections. Through the Apostolate of Holy Relics (AHR) the ICHR exhibits many of the rescued relics around the country, with the hope of promoting proper veneration and appreciation.

I think this particular bit of wood has a bit more history to it than your average relic and would as such significantly increase its value, you don't go robbing a relic unless you know where and who to sell it to, just looks like plain old theft with a view to profit. Unfortunately no Indiana Jones twist here

charlemont

“And there are a lot of fake relics. I once saw a feather in a reliquary that someone claimed was from the wing of the Holy Spirit, and someone bought it.

That is awesome. How could someone be so thick...

newmug

charlemont wrote: »

“And there are a lot of fake relics. I once saw a feather in a reliquary that someone claimed was from the wing of the Holy Spirit, and someone bought it.

That is awesome. How could someone be so thick...

Fair play to them, some amount of faith.

Undergod

snafuk35 wrote: »

I just showed you that it clearly came from Jerusalem and it clearly was a piece of the true cross of Jesus Christ Our Lord and Saviour.

No, you didn't.

snafuk35 wrote: »

Someone obviously cared enough to steal it didn't they?

That doesn't make them correct. People believe all sorts of things, just cause someone thinks an object is magical and goes and steals it, doesn't have any bearing on whether it is magical.

snafuk35 wrote: »

As we speak evil people have the most precious Irish Catholic relic in their hands. They must be stopped!

Where's the conspiracy exactly?

jackiebaron

snafuk35 wrote: »

Pardon me I should have wrote 'first Christian Roman Emperor'. Happy now?:)

No. He didn't embrace Christianity. He just saw the trend, knew on what side his bread was buttered and went with the flow. I doubt the man gave up his orgies and vomitoria and dropped to his knees every sunday.

As for a fragment of the cross that Christ was executed on.....how the hell is that proven? What a load of bollocks. Put yourself back then. A dangerous Palestinian hippie is executed. Kinda like what happens every few years. Who back then would have thought "oooh....this bloke is the son of god....keep a few of those splinters".

Have you ever thought to keep a few strands of the blanket that any other victim was wearing who challenged an empire and got whacked in the last 2000 years.

JC's body was never found. Wonder if they buried him at sea like Osama.

Penn

Calm it down lads. Don't mind a bit of humour thrown in but show some respect. I've just deleted almost a page worth of nonsense posts and probably could have deleted more. Just cool it a bit. Thanks

fontanalis

Maguire & Patterson?

Killer Pigeon

Magic piece of wood =/= reality