LPG Conversion

Squall19

Any companies doing this in Munster?

Want to get a few quotes.

Thanks lads

unkel

Did you check availability of LPG at petrol stations in your region? If there is availability, did you do your sums to see if you would save enough on fuel to make it worthwhile?

crosstownk

What car/engine are you planning to convert? The newer the car the more expensive the conversion due to ECU modifications. In some fuel injected engines it may require tapping gas injectors into the inlet manifold.....

Our man in Havana

It is generally not worth it due to the cost of the conversion and the limited availability of LPG. You will be a long time getting back your investment in savings.

crosstownk

Our man in Havana wrote: »

It is generally not worth it due to the cost of the conversion and the limited availability of LPG. You will be a long time getting back your investment in savings.

I'd tend to agree. It was a lot simpler back in the day when all that was required was a tank, pipework, some simple electrics and a mixer unit above the carb.

It's completely different with modern petrol engines. I'd say you'd break even a lot quicker today by trading to a diesel.

Squall19

Plenty of stations around Tralee all less than 90c at the moment, it's a 02 1.6 Primera with 106k miles on the clock

Nothing fancy, it's an a to b car.

Have done the sums, if its around 1000e to do the conversion, it will work out great.

Petrol is 1.50 here, lpg is 90c, car does about 15k miles a year.

Diesel is 1.41 and a cheap 1.9tdi is almost 600 a year to tax.

CiniO

Squall19 wrote: »

Plenty of stations around Tralee all less than 90c at the moment, it's a 02 1.6 Primera with 106k miles on the clock

Nothing fancy, it's an a to b car.

Have done the sums, if its around 1000e to do the conversion, it will work out great.

Petrol is 1.50 here, lpg is 90c, car does about 15k miles a year.

Diesel is 1.41 and a cheap 1.9tdi is almost 600 a year to tax.

I wouldn't be so sure.
As you say 15k miles a year is 24k kms.
Assume petrol consumption at 8 l/100km, so we have:
8 litres * 240 * 1.50€ = €2880.
That's your annual petrol bill.

After conversion you will probably get about 10 l/100km on LPG.
So we have:
10 litres * 240 * €0.90 = €2160.

Plus you have to remember that engine starts on petrol and runs for first minute or two on petrol (in winter time longer), so you need some petrol as well for every start when engine is cold. Assume €200 a year.
You as well will have to spend some money on your conversion maintenance. There is a gas filter to be changed every 20k, adjustment needs to be done. Probably another €100 annually if everything works fine. Otherwise more.

So now it costs you €2880 a year.
On LPG it will cost you €2160 + €200 + €100 = €2460.

That gives you saving of €420 per year.

So in general you need 2.5 years just to pay back the conversion price, and it's all assuming that difference in price between LPG and petrol won't decrease. And obviously that you won't drive any fur, and never run out of gas, so you won't need to use petrol.

IMHO it's completely not worth it.

From my experience LPG was worth in countries like Poland.
Price of LPG was less than half of price of petrol.
Cost of conversion and it's maintenance was way lower due to smaller labour cost.

I converted Fiat Bravo 1.6, and cost of conversion was returned after about 9 months.
After that I kept the car for nearly 4 years, and during that time, I saved about €800 every year.

Squall19

Thanks for the reply CiniO.

Does give me something to think about.

I have been to Poland a few times, class place.

Would be great to have lpg for 2.50 zloty like Poland, really make sense there to have a gas car.

I guess that's the advantage of having billions upon billions of natural gas reserves like they have in Poland, is that why it's so cheap?

I wonder why car rental companies in Poland don't rent lpg cars?

I could do alot of driving then:D

CiniO

Squall19 wrote: »

I guess that's the advantage of having billions upon billions of natural gas reserves like they have in Poland, is that why it's so cheap?

I don't think they have so much, but anyway LPG is mixture of propane and butane, and it's mainly made during oil refination, so it generally comes from the same source as petrol and diesel.
It's cheaper probably just because of different taxation approach.

I wonder why car rental companies in Poland don't rent lpg cars?

I could do alot of driving then:D

They do.
Not the main worldwide rental companies (like Hertz, Budget, Dollar, etc). They usually don't.
But most of the local renting places, do have LPG cars for rent.

unkel

I'm surprised by the LPG availability in Kerry!

CiniO wrote: »

It's cheaper probably just because of different taxation approach.

That's it, it's purely fiscal.

mandrake04

From experience in a country where LPG is very popular you would use more litres of LPG than petrol, good example is a Ford Falcon 4.0L guzzles about 16-17 L/100Km on gas and the same car 10-12 L/100Km on Petrol.

But then the price of LPG is about $0.69 L and Petrol is about $1.35 L.

unkel

mandrake04 wrote: »

From experience in a country where LPG is very popular you would use more litres of LPG than petrol, good example is a Ford Falcon 4.0L guzzles about 16-17 L/100Km on gas and the same car 10-12 L/100Km on Petrol.

As we discussed here recently, those figures are not normal for LPG cars in Europe. Expect to use about 10% more fuel on LPG than on petrol (pre- conversion)

CiniO

mandrake04 wrote: »

From experience in a country where LPG is very popular you would use more litres of LPG than petrol, good example is a Ford Falcon 4.0L guzzles about 16-17 L/100Km on gas and the same car 10-12 L/100Km on Petrol.

Only reason for such big difference can be badly adopted or badly adjusted conversion.

Normally should be around 10% more on LPG than petrol.
If it's more it usually means that you are running on too rich mixture, causing damage to engine, cat, etc.

If it's the same as on petrol or less, then it means you are running with too much air vs LPG. That will cause problems with engine if run like that for longer as well.

Ideally you would want your lambda to be around 1 the same as on petrol.
To achieve it, you need about 10% more LPG than petrol.

mandrake04

I'm not talking about duel fuel conversion, talking about a pure factory LPG car v pure Petrol car.

Practically same engine just one has a 116L gas tank the other 80L petrol tank.

It sort if expected to use more LPG I have driven both and noticed the LPG requires a bit more of the hoof to be able to perform like a petrol.

Same can be said for different petrol.

I have a Holden SV6 which takes E10 (10% Ethanol) and regular unleaded, I can get more km out of a tank or regular than E10. E10 is a bit cheaper than regular so it's a bit of a false economy.

x in the city

Squall19 wrote: »

Any companies doing this in Munster?

Want to get a few quotes.

Thanks lads

wasting your time in munster, does munster even have a handful of lpg refills?

work out the math.

Squall19

x in the city wrote: »

wasting your time in munster, does munster even have a handful of lpg refills?

work out the math.

There is about 3 stations in Tralee near me, I would be grand;)

Our man in Havana

Grand till you need to Dublin.

Squall19

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Grand till you need to Dublin.

For long journeys I would have to fill her up all right.

A 1.6 primera has a generous 60 litre tank and would do about 7 to 8l/km on a nice easy run to Dublin, so not too much of a problem.Few stations in Limerick so I could go Belfast:D