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LPG Conversion

  • 12-10-2011 8:18pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 565 ✭✭✭


    Any companies doing this in Munster?

    Want to get a few quotes.

    Thanks lads


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,401 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Did you check availability of LPG at petrol stations in your region? If there is availability, did you do your sums to see if you would save enough on fuel to make it worthwhile?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,863 ✭✭✭✭crosstownk


    What car/engine are you planning to convert? The newer the car the more expensive the conversion due to ECU modifications. In some fuel injected engines it may require tapping gas injectors into the inlet manifold.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,472 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    It is generally not worth it due to the cost of the conversion and the limited availability of LPG. You will be a long time getting back your investment in savings.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,863 ✭✭✭✭crosstownk


    It is generally not worth it due to the cost of the conversion and the limited availability of LPG. You will be a long time getting back your investment in savings.

    I'd tend to agree. It was a lot simpler back in the day when all that was required was a tank, pipework, some simple electrics and a mixer unit above the carb.

    It's completely different with modern petrol engines. I'd say you'd break even a lot quicker today by trading to a diesel.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Squall19


    Plenty of stations around Tralee all less than 90c at the moment, it's a 02 1.6 Primera with 106k miles on the clock

    Nothing fancy, it's an a to b car.

    Have done the sums, if its around 1000e to do the conversion, it will work out great.

    Petrol is 1.50 here, lpg is 90c, car does about 15k miles a year.

    Diesel is 1.41 and a cheap 1.9tdi is almost 600 a year to tax.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,069 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    Squall19 wrote: »
    Plenty of stations around Tralee all less than 90c at the moment, it's a 02 1.6 Primera with 106k miles on the clock

    Nothing fancy, it's an a to b car.

    Have done the sums, if its around 1000e to do the conversion, it will work out great.

    Petrol is 1.50 here, lpg is 90c, car does about 15k miles a year.

    Diesel is 1.41 and a cheap 1.9tdi is almost 600 a year to tax.


    I wouldn't be so sure.
    As you say 15k miles a year is 24k kms.
    Assume petrol consumption at 8 l/100km, so we have:
    8 litres * 240 * 1.50€ = €2880.
    That's your annual petrol bill.

    After conversion you will probably get about 10 l/100km on LPG.
    So we have:
    10 litres * 240 * €0.90 = €2160.

    Plus you have to remember that engine starts on petrol and runs for first minute or two on petrol (in winter time longer), so you need some petrol as well for every start when engine is cold. Assume €200 a year.
    You as well will have to spend some money on your conversion maintenance. There is a gas filter to be changed every 20k, adjustment needs to be done. Probably another €100 annually if everything works fine. Otherwise more.

    So now it costs you €2880 a year.
    On LPG it will cost you €2160 + €200 + €100 = €2460.

    That gives you saving of €420 per year.

    So in general you need 2.5 years just to pay back the conversion price, and it's all assuming that difference in price between LPG and petrol won't decrease. And obviously that you won't drive any fur, and never run out of gas, so you won't need to use petrol.

    IMHO it's completely not worth it.

    From my experience LPG was worth in countries like Poland.
    Price of LPG was less than half of price of petrol.
    Cost of conversion and it's maintenance was way lower due to smaller labour cost.

    I converted Fiat Bravo 1.6, and cost of conversion was returned after about 9 months.
    After that I kept the car for nearly 4 years, and during that time, I saved about €800 every year.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Squall19


    Thanks for the reply CiniO.

    Does give me something to think about.

    I have been to Poland a few times, class place.

    Would be great to have lpg for 2.50 zloty like Poland, really make sense there to have a gas car.

    I guess that's the advantage of having billions upon billions of natural gas reserves like they have in Poland, is that why it's so cheap?

    I wonder why car rental companies in Poland don't rent lpg cars?

    I could do alot of driving then:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,069 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    Squall19 wrote: »

    I guess that's the advantage of having billions upon billions of natural gas reserves like they have in Poland, is that why it's so cheap?

    I don't think they have so much, but anyway LPG is mixture of propane and butane, and it's mainly made during oil refination, so it generally comes from the same source as petrol and diesel.
    It's cheaper probably just because of different taxation approach.

    I wonder why car rental companies in Poland don't rent lpg cars?

    I could do alot of driving then:D

    They do.
    Not the main worldwide rental companies (like Hertz, Budget, Dollar, etc). They usually don't.
    But most of the local renting places, do have LPG cars for rent.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,401 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    I'm surprised by the LPG availability in Kerry!
    CiniO wrote: »
    It's cheaper probably just because of different taxation approach.

    That's it, it's purely fiscal.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    From experience in a country where LPG is very popular you would use more litres of LPG than petrol, good example is a Ford Falcon 4.0L guzzles about 16-17 L/100Km on gas and the same car 10-12 L/100Km on Petrol.

    But then the price of LPG is about $0.69 L and Petrol is about $1.35 L.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,401 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    mandrake04 wrote: »
    From experience in a country where LPG is very popular you would use more litres of LPG than petrol, good example is a Ford Falcon 4.0L guzzles about 16-17 L/100Km on gas and the same car 10-12 L/100Km on Petrol.

    As we discussed here recently, those figures are not normal for LPG cars in Europe. Expect to use about 10% more fuel on LPG than on petrol (pre- conversion)

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,069 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    mandrake04 wrote: »
    From experience in a country where LPG is very popular you would use more litres of LPG than petrol, good example is a Ford Falcon 4.0L guzzles about 16-17 L/100Km on gas and the same car 10-12 L/100Km on Petrol.

    Only reason for such big difference can be badly adopted or badly adjusted conversion.

    Normally should be around 10% more on LPG than petrol.
    If it's more it usually means that you are running on too rich mixture, causing damage to engine, cat, etc.

    If it's the same as on petrol or less, then it means you are running with too much air vs LPG. That will cause problems with engine if run like that for longer as well.

    Ideally you would want your lambda to be around 1 the same as on petrol.
    To achieve it, you need about 10% more LPG than petrol.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    I'm not talking about duel fuel conversion, talking about a pure factory LPG car v pure Petrol car.

    Practically same engine just one has a 116L gas tank the other 80L petrol tank.

    It sort if expected to use more LPG I have driven both and noticed the LPG requires a bit more of the hoof to be able to perform like a petrol.

    Same can be said for different petrol.

    I have a Holden SV6 which takes E10 (10% Ethanol) and regular unleaded, I can get more km out of a tank or regular than E10. E10 is a bit cheaper than regular so it's a bit of a false economy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭x in the city


    Squall19 wrote: »
    Any companies doing this in Munster?

    Want to get a few quotes.

    Thanks lads

    wasting your time in munster, does munster even have a handful of lpg refills?

    work out the math.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Squall19


    wasting your time in munster, does munster even have a handful of lpg refills?

    work out the math.

    There is about 3 stations in Tralee near me, I would be grand;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,472 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Grand till you need to Dublin.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Squall19


    Grand till you need to Dublin.

    For long journeys I would have to fill her up all right.

    A 1.6 primera has a generous 60 litre tank and would do about 7 to 8l/km on a nice easy run to Dublin, so not too much of a problem.Few stations in Limerick so I could go Belfast:D


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