BREAKING - Aer Arann to withdraw Galway services

RobitTV

Aer Arann is to withdraw winter services from Galway Airport by the end of this month.

Aer Arann has announced plans to withdraw winter services from Galway Airport by the end of this month.

In a statement, the company said that it had worked with Galway Airport to "explore all commercial options" but that bookings had continued to deteriorate.

"A number of issues have combined to bring about this decision but the biggest driver is the economy which has led to fewer people travelling and a significant reduction in fare revenues which is being experienced by regional airlines all over Europe", Aer Arann CEO Paul Schütz said.

The suspended Galway routes will be the flights between Galway airport and London Southend, London Luton, Manchester, Edinburgh and Waterford.

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L1011

Well that's that screwed then.

When the M17/M18 is done (if ever, at this stage mind...) both Knock and Shannon will be within very easy/quick reach, even compared to now.

dechand

55 people on the payroll in that little airport ? no wonder their charges are off the wall.
Reality bites and bites hard.

Delancey

dechand wrote: »

55 people on the payroll in that little airport ? no wonder their charges are off the wall.
Reality bites and bites hard.

How the hell can that staffing level be justified ?

cookies221

Finally some good news. A tiny island like Ireland doesn't need 11 airports. The state of Maine in America, of comparable size to Ireland, has only one. Galway airport epitomised parish pump politics at its worst. Local gombeens only concerned about their own backyard while the country is in such dire financial trouble. Ireland only needs Dublin, Cork and Shannon airports.

Storm 10

dechand wrote: »

55 people on the payroll in that little airport ? no wonder their charges are off the wall.
Reality bites and bites hard.

Well if you look at it, Fire Service, Security,Check In,ATC,Ground Staff, Shop etc its not a lot of people when you take shifts into it. The Airport was open from 5am until 1am.

LXFlyer

Delancey wrote: »

How the hell can that staffing level be justified ?

Bizarrely enough an airport that is open from early morning to late at night is not staffed by just one shift alone.

Add to that the equally bizarre notion that staff do not work 7 days a week, and are entitled to holidays.

xflyer

MYOB wrote: »

Well that's that screwed then.

When the M17/M18 is done (if ever, at this stage mind...) both Knock and Shannon will be within very easy/quick reach, even compared to now.

Knock is an easy hour away now, assuming you don't get stuck in Galway's famous gridlock.

Galway Airport's real downfall is it's location. The original airstrip was only built for the owner's own aircraft when he fell out with with the people running nearby Oranmore. The runway is too short, too narrow and there's no room for expansion. Knock despite being in the middle of nowhere has a jet capable runway.

Meanwhile there's plenty of space back at the old Oranmore strip. Enough for dozens of Ryanair 738s.

ejmaztec

cookies221 wrote: »

Finally some good news. A tiny island like Ireland doesn't need 11 airports. The state of Maine in America, of comparable size to Ireland, has only one. Galway airport epitomised parish pump politics at its worst. Local gombeens only concerned about their own backyard while the country is in such dire financial trouble. Ireland only needs Dublin, Cork and Shannon airports.

There are a lot more than one. Even excluding military bases and private landing strips, Maine has more than Ireland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airports_in_Maine

basill

In the Irish Times the IT and medical devices sectors (whoever they may be) were quoted as saying that the loss of their air links could force them to close down. Well I wonder if they ever thought of block buying seats or entering into an arrangement with the airline to keep the thing going. Nope I am sure they didn't and I am also sure that their staff hopped into their cars and flew out of Dublin when it suited them claiming mileage etc etc. What goes around comes around.

ejmaztec

Is this anything to do with Aer Arann juggling its resources after taking on the Kerry-Dublin route (starting 3rd November)?

Neworder79

basill wrote: »

In the Irish Times the IT and medical devices sectors (whoever they may be) were quoted as saying that the loss of their air links could force them to close down.

The reference to multinationals is a generalisation and makes no direct reference or quote, completely exaggerated. This is a re-print of the scare line that the airport board and local politicians have been spinning to frighten people and make political shots.

But it's not backed up by reality, the people of Galway aren't using the existing services with numbers down over 70% last year alone. Calls for local industry to support the airport were met with silence. IDA say multinational companies are more concerned with routes, frequency and reliability and an airport within an hour is more than acceptable.

Is this anything to do with Aer Arann juggling its resources after taking on the Kerry-Dublin route (starting 3rd November)?

This decision was made well before PSO announcements and they had spare aircraft from closure of other PSO routes. They wanted out of the airport, Galway Bay FM ran the story back in July but Aer Arann had to deny it because of local pressure. AerLingus Regional contract is keeping the company going and based at Shannon. No point having competing routes a few miles up the road losing money and damaging each base.

The facts are obvious but usually ignored:

- The airline relied on subsidy to prop up thin routes, now gone
- The airline is losing money on "prime" routes (even while split with Waterford!)
- The numbers have collapsed beyond most expectations
- Southend move has damaged remaining London commuter business

- The airport relied on defunct Dublin route for half it's passenger numbers and income
- The airport only viable with heavy subvention
- The airport hasn't been able form a sustainable business plan
- The airport can't afford to run the current level of services and staff
- No one wants to take on the debt

- There are ample road and rail and direct bus options now connecting the city and Dublin
- There are 2 airports within 1 hour with a wide selection of low fares airlines, international routes and frequencies

boeingboy

Wot a shame this is happening.
Twas great with a fuzzy head..........if ya get my drift.
Well done Leo for allowing this. Regional services are seen as a necessary service in the States.

Maybe the "new" little president will have a say IF he gets in.

Delancey

I get annoyed reading about the pissant regional airports - when I think of the public money they have gobbled up over the years - this country has way too many airports for its size and population.
The ' parish pump ' has driven airport development in Ireland - commercial realities come a poor second.

Tea 1000

cookies221 wrote: »

Finally some good news. A tiny island like Ireland doesn't need 11 airports. The state of Maine in America, of comparable size to Ireland, has only one. Galway airport epitomised parish pump politics at its worst. Local gombeens only concerned about their own backyard while the country is in such dire financial trouble. Ireland only needs Dublin, Cork and Shannon airports.

People losing their jobs is not good news. We may have too many airports, but it's not "good news" that many people will struggle to pay bills now. What do you think will happen in your head? That the Government will use this new found money saved from Galways closure to bring the country out of recession? Or maybe it won't make a pick of difference to any of us for the better in any way, shape or form? I'm betting on the latter.
People on the dole and the tiny bit of money saved will be swallowed up in the giant "pay-back-Europe" debt, and we may be back to economic stability a few hours earlier!

aw

xflyer wrote: »

Knock is an easy hour away now, assuming you don't get stuck in Galway's famous gridlock.

Galway Airport's real downfall is it's location. The original airstrip was only built for the owner's own aircraft when he fell out with with the people running nearby Oranmore. The runway is too short, too narrow and there's no room for expansion. Knock despite being in the middle of nowhere has a jet capable runway.

Meanwhile there's plenty of space back at the old Oranmore strip. Enough for dozens of Ryanair 738s.

Just on this, although I have pften heard tell of the Oranmore Aerodrome, I have no idea where it is/was.

Can anyone tell me where it was located and if the site is still free or did the Celtic tiger gobble it up?

I have tried googling but no avail.

This photo looks like it might be Carnmore with the way the roads and the lie of the land is.

http://www.airfieldinformationexchange.org/community/showthread.php?1633-Oranmore

cookies221

Tea 1000 wrote: »

People losing their jobs is not good news. We may have too many airports, but it's not "good news" that many people will struggle to pay bills now. What do you think will happen in your head? That the Government will use this new found money saved from Galways closure to bring the country out of recession? Or maybe it won't make a pick of difference to any of us for the better in any way, shape or form? I'm betting on the latter.
People on the dole and the tiny bit of money saved will be swallowed up in the giant "pay-back-Europe" debt, and we may be back to economic stability a few hours earlier!

Please spare me all the emotional guff about families struggling and starving on the side of the road. Galway airport should never have existed to begin with. It was the birthchild of greedy gombeenism, where common economic sense goes out the window in favour of winning a couple of votes from the locals.

The market will take care of itself. All unnecessary airports will not run a profit and will therefore close down. On a side note, air travel is not an economical way to travel over short distances, nor is it environmentally friendly. We have improved motorways and train services these days, so Dublin is only a short trip away. Best of luck to the staff in finding new jobs.

Delancey

While nobody wants to see folks losing their jobs the fact is that these airports were never possible to justify for any reasons other than political expediency.
Take Donegal Airport - given its proximity to Derry Airport why was this built ? Given Kerry's proximity to Shannon the same question must be asked.
Large sums that could have been better used on things like roads were pissed away on airports that nobody ( bar a few local and influential ' cute hoors ' ) wanted .
I would not be sorry to see the whole lot of regional airports close , after a few angry public meeting and some gombeen threatening to run as a single issue candidate at the next election they will soon be forgotten.

xflyer

aw wrote: »

Just on this, although I have pften heard tell of the Oranmore Aerodrome, I have no idea where it is/was.

Actually it's still there, kind of. It was nearly gobbled up by the Celtic Tiger. The IDA speculatively laid it out as a Pharmaceutical campus. It has a couple of ponds, a road, some car parking lanscaping and a mystery object at the end of the road. There are faded and tattered boards showing what it could look like. No buildings.

http://www.idaireland.com/locations/strategic-sites/oranmore/

It's all a bit sad, a kind of 'ghost' industrial park. It fills the exact area of the landing ground set up by the RAF back in 1918.

It's actually accessible and seems to be popular with dogwalkers, cyclists and joggers. There's an artificial hill there. If you climb it you can see into the army firing range behind and see how much space threre would be for an airport. It's a nice walk on a sunny afternoon. You can go there and think what might have been.

You may soon be able to say the same for Carnmore, popular with dogwalkers, cyclists and joggers, a nice walk on a sunny afternoon!

Tea 1000

cookies221 wrote: »

Please spare me all the emotional guff about families struggling and starving on the side of the road. Galway airport should never have existed to begin with. It was the birthchild of greedy gombeenism, where common economic sense goes out the window in favour of winning a couple of votes from the locals.

The market will take care of itself. All unnecessary airports will not run a profit and will therefore close down. On a side note, air travel is not an economical way to travel over short distances, nor is it environmentally friendly. We have improved motorways and train services these days, so Dublin is only a short trip away. Best of luck to the staff in finding new jobs.

Yes, and as I stated, you're right, they shouldn't have existed. But saying that it's good news is incorrect. It means nothing for the good of the economy that it's closing. So it's just news at best and bad news for the people directly affected.
And after all, this is a forum for Aviation enthusiasts, so I love seeing lots of airports. But unfortunately this is one of the worst forums on boards for moaning auld complainers nit-picking the good out of everything.

Delancey wrote: »

While nobody wants to see folks losing their jobs the fact is that these airports were never possible to justify for any reasons other than political expediency.
Take Donegal Airport - given its proximity to Derry Airport why was this built ? Given Kerry's proximity to Shannon the same question must be asked.
Large sums that could have been better used on things like roads were pissed away on airports that nobody ( bar a few local and influential ' cute hoors ' ) wanted .
I would not be sorry to see the whole lot of regional airports close , after a few angry public meeting and some gombeen threatening to run as a single issue candidate at the next election they will soon be forgotten.

I'll be sorry to see them close, as an aviation enthusiast. I love getting as close as is safely possible to the aircraft on final approach. This is supposed to be an enthusiast forum, but it's not the first time threads are ruined by moaners giving their pearls of wisdom on how the country should be run.
There are far bigger wastes of money going on. And thinking that better roads would be built if those airports never existed is naieve.
Anyway, if it's environmental consideration you're after it's less roads and more rails we should be using. We shouldn't go on holidays either...

Neworder79

Whatever justification exists for tax subventing connectivity, you'll get little support arguing airports should exist for spotters!

L1011

Spotting ATR42 and ATR72 exclusively must get EXTREMELY boring.

ejmaztec

MYOB wrote: »

Spotting ATR42 and ATR72 exclusively must get EXTREMELY boring.

They have to find something to do after the paint that they've been watching at home finally dries.

Delancey

Tea does make an interesting point - aviation enthusiasts not sorry an airport shuts down does seem something of a contradiction.
I suppose its do with an awareness of the fact that pretty much anything to do with aviation is expensive and for too long the taxpayer or consumer has been subsidising inefficient or unwanted services.

I think the Air Corps is a bad joke , I would love to see the Air Corps equipped with proper aircraft that could defend Irish Air Space - the likes of F16's or F18's but I am all too aware of the fact that the country is bankrupt and spending like that cannot be justified when people are lying on trollies in hospitals for lack of beds.

My attitude extends to airports that are not nor ever were needed.

JupiterKid

I agree with those who think that the regional airports are a waste of money and resources. For a small country with a population of less than 4 and a half million, 11 airports is ridiculous. With the new M18 motorway, Shannon is probably under an hour now from Galway city. Knock is just over one hour.

The new motorway network has sounded the death knell for the regional airports. Whilst it will be unfortunate that job losses will result, there really is no need for Galway, Sligo and Waterford airports whatsoever. Kerry is kept going owing to its distance from Dublin, Knock by the scale of its facilities and Donegal by very poor roads in the county making local industry and population somewhat reliant on that airport.

I think there is a case for Knock in the long term, but for the others I reckon that ultimately, their days are numbered.

Stinicker

Kerry and Knock are the only two private airports in the Country that are really viable in my opinion, and the reason that both are viable is population spread and extremely poor land transportation links to the other main airports.

Cork is Airport is a two hour drive from Tralee and an hour and a half from Killarney, public transport from both centres of population in Kerry are slow, overpriced and require connections to buses as there is no direct bus service from Kerry to Cork or Shannon Airports.

Similarly passengers from Kerry must endure two bad quality roads to both Cork and Limerick, with notorious traffic snarl ups at Macroom on the South Ring Roundabouts and at Adare for Shannon, similarly in Connaught bad road infrastructure and expensive slow public transport makes the local airport the most logical choice.

L1011

I thought Kerry Airport was significantly state owned? Albeit through agencies not directly.

Lapin

aw wrote: »

Just on this, although I have pften heard tell of the Oranmore Aerodrome, I have no idea where it is/was.

Can anyone tell me where it was located and if the site is still free or did the Celtic tiger gobble it up?

I have tried googling but no avail.

This photo looks like it might be Carnmore with the way the roads and the lie of the land is.
http://www.airfieldinformationexchange.org/community/showthread.php?1633-Oranmore

Nope, thats Oranmore Aerodrome alright.
The photo is taken from the north west facing south east.

The 'road' you see curving across the top of the image is in fact the Galway - Dublin Railway line !

The site is located to the right of the N18 road when heading from Oranmore towards Carnmore.
About 400 metres north of the level crossing beside the Maldron/Quality Hotel in Oranmore.
Or 1.2 km south of Junction 19 on the M6 heading towards Oranmore on the left.

As Xflier said, the place is a brownfield site now. Waiting for development which will probably never happen. The entrance road is blocked by bollards but the place is easily accessable on foot or by bike.

The image from Google Earth below shows the location of the aerodrome in relation to the current (sadly doomed) Galway Airport.

sdanseo

cookies221 wrote: »

Finally some good news. A tiny island like Ireland doesn't need 11 airports. The state of Maine in America, of comparable size to Ireland, has only one. Galway airport epitomised parish pump politics at its worst. Local gombeens only concerned about their own backyard while the country is in such dire financial trouble. Ireland only needs Dublin, Cork and Shannon airports.

ejmaztec wrote: »

There are a lot more than one. Even excluding military bases and private landing strips, Maine has more than Ireland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airports_in_Maine

Cookies while I agree with you that we don't need 11 airports, certainly not all for commercial travel, I wish people wouldn't just pull random facts out of their arse.

Maine is half the size of Ireland, with a quarter of the population. It also has a number of airports as listed by ejmaztec above. Wish people would do their homework before blurting out "fact".

As for the fate of Galway Airport - I hate to say it but Msgr. Horan didn't help by building Knock in the middle of a bog. The only reason EIKN is preferred is because it has the runway to sustain a proper range of aircraft and Galway just wasn't able to secure a larger runway. It was either Knock or Carnmore, and unfortunately Knock wins. Sligo will be gone in a few years, too.

To me that's a very silly conclusion and while I admire the thought and effort put into EIKN by the late Msgr Horan; it was nothing but a parish pump project of the highest order - done without planning permission to cap. And then of course when it was finished the Government opened it for him and took the credit. Really, only in Ireland. And that useless lump of an airport has killed two smaller, longer established airports in the process.

If I had my way, Galway would have its runway extended and Knock would get the chop. The only alternative going forward, to my mind, is to ensure that Knock gets connected to all of the people of the West by making the M17 corrirdor a motorway for its full length. It's the only sensible scenario for keeping Knock propped up given the huge area and low populatin of its local catchment.

xflyer

The Google picture posted by Lapin all too accurately shows Carnmore's problems. Hemmed in at both ends by roads and buildings. Wrong place for an airport but to be fair it was never intended as such, merely an airstrip for Herr Steiner opposite his factory. Meanwhile the original field at Oranmore shows how space there is.

I have to say I cannot see the airport simply closing down. It may cease to operate as destination for scheduled operations. But it can be used for general aviation. Perhaps a flying school or use as a base for tourist sight seeing over Connemara. It would be criminal to see big white X's painted across the runway. There is great potential there.

Frankly the management there are to blame. Even this year they have messed about people interesting in operating there. It was a long standing problem with them, discouraging GA with high fuel prices, daft opening hours, I mean who ever heard of an airport closing for staff breaks? Then there was the transit fee. If you flew through their airspace you were sent a bill. It's unheard of. Many pilots I know actively hate Galway airport for their attitude. Incidentally this doesn't include the frontline staff, never had a problem with any of them. They are the people losing out now.

But there are people out there watching this with great interest, ready to move in and take over.

Interesting times ahead.

Teebor15

Maine is half the size of Ireland, with a quarter of the population. It also has a number of airports as listed by ejmaztec above. Wish people would do their homework before blurting out "fact".

Maine = 35,385 sq miles
Ireland = 32,595 sq miles

Wish people would do their homework before blurting out "fact".

yeah me too! :rolleyes:

Tea 1000

Neworder79 wrote: »

Whatever justification exists for tax subventing connectivity, you'll get little support arguing airports should exist for spotters!

I know, good job I didn't suggest such a thing then!

MYOB wrote: »

Spotting ATR42 and ATR72 exclusively must get EXTREMELY boring.

Who said anything about spotting ATR's exclusively?

ejmaztec wrote: »

They have to find something to do after the paint that they've been watching at home finally dries.

Do you even realise what forum this is?
I sense much anger and hostility in here!!

xflyer

Comparisions with in Maine or elsewhere in the US is not really that useful. First off the USA is more airminded than this country so there are lots more airports. But in American 'airport' tends to be a more generic term and applies to all sorts of airfields whether they have scheduled services or not. Plus more than a few were built by the military in the first place. Which means they have long runways and good facilities. Also a lot of quite small airports are funded by the local community or business not the state government or even the feds. Often they don't even charge landing fees. There is a lot more general aviation to keep them running too.

They way they operate can be quite different too. An equivalent airport to Galway in the US would probably have one or two flying schools maybe combined with an FBO, selling fuel and handling visiting aircraft from Cessna trainers up to GIVs or offering charter/air taxi services. The local police might keep their helicopter there or an air ambulance or the local news helicopter. It might even have a military presence like the Air or Army National Guard. It may have an instrument approach but it may not even have a tower or any form of ATC. The lighting system at the airport could be pilot operated so aircraft can come and go at night without any airport staff being present and any scheduled operations will only be operated if there's money to be made because there's no subsidy.

But in fact that's a model for a future Galway airport. Ok there's never going to be a police or military presence but it could exist as a GA airport and isn't it time the west had a flying school, small though it might be? Scheduled services can come and go but only if they generate revenue for the carrier.

It's entirely possible, Weston continues to exist despite the active hostility of no less than two local councils. Can't see why Galway can't continue with a bit of goodwill.

Joe 90

xflyer wrote: »

Comparisions with in Maine or elsewhere in the US is not really that useful. First off the USA is more airminded than this country so there are lots more airports. But in American 'airport' tends to be a more generic term and applies to all sorts of airfields whether they have scheduled services or not. Plus more than a few were built by the military in the first place. Which means they have long runways and good facilities. Also a lot of quite small airports are funded by the local community or business not the state government or even the feds. Often they don't even charge landing fees. There is a lot more general aviation to keep them running too.

They way they operate can be quite different too. An equivalent airport to Galway in the US would probably have one or two flying schools maybe combined with an FBO, selling fuel and handling visiting aircraft from Cessna trainers up to GIVs or offering charter/air taxi services. The local police might keep their helicopter there or an air ambulance or the local news helicopter. It might even have a military presence like the Air or Army National Guard. It may have an instrument approach but it may not even have a tower or any form of ATC. The lighting system at the airport could be pilot operated so aircraft can come and go at night without any airport staff being present and any scheduled operations will only be operated if there's money to be made because there's no subsidy.

But in fact that's a model for a future Galway airport. Ok there's never going to be a police or military presence but it could exist as a GA airport and isn't it time the west had a flying school, small though it might be? Scheduled services can come and go but only if they generate revenue for the carrier.

It's entirely possible, Weston continues to exist despite the active hostility of no less than two local councils. Can't see why Galway can't continue with a bit of goodwill.

Well, back in the days long before the Tiger it was jsut that, 600 yards if I remember, Aer Arran flights to the islands, a flying club, fuel sales and a few based aircraft.

Lapin

xflyer wrote: »

The Google picture posted by Lapin all too accurately shows Carnmore's problems. Hemmed in at both ends by roads and buildings. Wrong place for an airport but to be fair it was never intended as such, merely an airstrip for Herr Steiner opposite his factory. Meanwhile the original field at Oranmore shows how space there is.

I've always maintained that this is the ideal location for an airport serving Galway and the West.

The old Oranmore Aerodrome site has ample space for a terminal, parking and other anciliary buildings.

There is a swathe of relatively flat empty land streching immediately to north east of here capable of accommodating a runway of around 2400 metres in length. (Similar to Knock). The angle of the runway also minimises noise disruption in Galway City as aircraft would climb or descend over Galway Bay.

The location is ideal for local and national access being situated less than a kilometre from the M6, N17, N18 and old N6 roads. And the Galway - Dublin Railway passes within a few metres of the terminal opening up the potential for direct links to Galway, Dublin, Limerick and all points in between.

Here is another Google image broadly illustrating what I describe above.
It is all very aspirational but with imagination and financial backing there is potential there.
Although I know it will never happen.

xflyer

Nice idea, Lapin, one flaw though, the North end of the runway is on part of the army range that from the air appears to have what can only be described as shell holes. There may be a bit of EOD required:eek:

Lapin

xflyer wrote: »

There may be a bit of EOD required:eek:

True. But thats one of the reasons we have an army !

Is that military range still in use?
I haven't seen any activity there for years.

ejmaztec

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Do you even realise what forum this is?
I sense much anger and hostility in here!!

Having lived in the UK, and being surrounded by USAF/RAF bases, airline spotting was never on my list of priorities.:P

There's nothing like listening to your windows rattling when a couple of B52s are flying at high altitude above you.:eek:

xflyer

Yes, when I flew over it earlier this year there a lot of men in camouflage looking up at me. No itchy trigger fingers fortunately.

L1011

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Who said anything about spotting ATR's exclusively?

What other commercial craft use Galway?

dechand

Of all the jobs that may be lost if the airport is mothballed how many people saw these JOBS being publicly advertised ?.
ITS only a question im posing but its seems to be the same story when all these places hit the wall . Im sure we will have the hard luck stories of entire families being laid off.

xflyer

MYOB wrote: »

What other commercial craft use Galway?

There used to be Manx2 Let 410s in and out but they seem to be gone. Other than that there was mostly general aviation, survey aircraft a parachute aircraft at one point and the Air Corps were regular visitors. For the most part private aircraft avoided the place

In terms of jobs dechand, to me the majority of jobs seem to be in security and fire. There are a couple of controllers, shop and bar staff, check in staff. Galway airport used to sell an airport fire crew course regularly. I suspect that a job offer would follow for graduates if there was a vacancy. Generally they do all the security/fire/refuelling/baggage handling etc.