Jealousy

maxwell smart

I'm not going to hide my username because I think that what I have done can;t be hidden behind an alias.

Myself and my wife have been together for 17 years. We have 4 beautiful children. Everything was great. Until this this March when she started texting another man. She knew him from years ago and I knew nothing about this contact. It progressed and they started to meet for coffee. Still knew nothing. Then one day her mobile was on the breakfast bar and a number came up which was sending her messages. 3 then 4 messages. The number was not saved to anyone and I thought that odd. I said it to her and she said it was nothing.

2 days later she confessed she had been in contact with this guy and had kissed him. She was very sorry and it would not happen again. She would stop contacting him.

I believed her. Now fast forward to now.

My marriage is over. I have destroyed it. I discovered he was still contacting her, I accused her of having an affair. She denied it and said that he was going through a messy seperation and she was helping him. We had other problems but I concentrated on this one.

I didn't believe her and that was my downfall. We have now fought for 5 weeks and only yesterday did I think of ringing this guy.

She was telling the truth. He is a harmless, lonely guy who I felt sorry for. He was not lying to me.

My wife has told me she will never talk to me again except about the kids. She says she hates me. She says we will never be friends and wants a separation.

I don't know if we can reconcile our differences, but let this be a lesson to you all.

Sometimes the truth, however bizarre and unbelievable it sounds, is just the truth.

A wise man once said "If you have to think about something before you say it, then don't say it." Live by those words.

Good Luck to you all

Big Bag of Chips

She has to shoulder her portion of the blame. She kissed this guy. Crossed a line with him. She could no longer be his shoulder to cry on.

She has to accept that your jealousy and doubt in her was brought about by her actions.

If the roles were reversed I'm sure she wouldn't be best pleased with you.

If it was entirely innocent second time round and she felt she was doing nothing wrong she should have been up front about it from the start.

The fact that she hid it from you, means she knew it was wrong.

You may have gotten it wrong... this time... but in my eyes she shoulders the majority of the blame.

The fact that she is so quick to up and leave and never speak to you smells strongly to me as "attack is the best form of defense"... she is diverting away from her own wrong doing.

BraziliaNZ

maxwell smart wrote: »

I'm not going to hide my username because I think that what I have done can;t be hidden behind an alias.

Myself and my wife have been together for 17 years. We have 4 beautiful children. Everything was great. Until this this March when she started texting another man. She knew him from years ago and I knew nothing about this contact. It progressed and they started to meet for coffee. Still knew nothing. Then one day her mobile was on the breakfast bar and a number came up which was sending her messages. 3 then 4 messages. The number was not saved to anyone and I thought that odd. I said it to her and she said it was nothing.

2 days later she confessed she had been in contact with this guy and had kissed him. She was very sorry and it would not happen again. She would stop contacting him.

I believed her. Now fast forward to now.

My marriage is over. I have destroyed it. I discovered he was still contacting her, I accused her of having an affair. She denied it and said that he was going through a messy seperation and she was helping him. We had other problems but I concentrated on this one.

I didn't believe her and that was my downfall. We have now fought for 5 weeks and only yesterday did I think of ringing this guy.

She was telling the truth. He is a harmless, lonely guy who I felt sorry for. He was not lying to me.

My wife has told me she will never talk to me again except about the kids. She says she hates me. She says we will never be friends and wants a separation.

I don't know if we can reconcile our differences, but let this be a lesson to you all.

Sometimes the truth, however bizarre and unbelievable it sounds, is just the truth.

A wise man once said "If you have to think about something before you say it, then don't say it." Live by those words.

Good Luck to you all

Hang on, don't be so hard on yourself. She said they were just friends yet she kissed him? She said she wasn't contacting him anymore and this turned out to be a lie? I'm sorry but after 17 years this should not be happening, and somehow she's made YOU feel like the guilty party? Whatever was going on she was keeping it from you, for whatever reason. There must have been some romantic involvement if she kissed the guy.
Why are you blaming yourself so much?

silly

Sorry to hear about that.
Hopefully when things have calmed down she will see that you just let the jealousy take over... I mean she did kiss this guy so the jealousy is kinda justified.
Maybe you took it too far, but sometimes you will drive yourself crazy if you don't do something...anything to get the truth.

I rang my husbands ex a few yrs ago when I found out they had been in contact (way before we were married) it didn't really do much good at the end of the day but I was so demented with jealousy I just did it...

I hope ye can work it out when the dust is settled.

maxwell smart

I guess that after 17 years I should have know that the kiss was a mistake. She owned up to it. I think she didn't want to hurt me by telling me that were still talking.

I should have believed that there was nothing in the continued contact.

I know her better than anyone on Earth and I should have known that sometimes people make mistakes, but she is the best person I have ever met and now she is gone.

I know it sounds very quick but it has been hell for the last 5 weeks.We have been at war for the whole time. She moved into her mothers and I still didn't let it go.

I have lost 2.5 stone (Not that I didn't need to lose a bit) and she is totally wrecked. She says I'm not the man she married and she doesn't know me anymore. She feels empty. I need to give her time and space and hope things get better. But I feel I have lost everything.

Jealousy has done this.

BraziliaNZ

maxwell smart wrote: »

I guess that after 17 years I should have know that the kiss was a mistake. She owned up to it. I think she didn't want to hurt me by telling me that were still talking.

I should have believed that there was nothing in the continued contact.

I know her better than anyone on Earth and I should have known that sometimes people make mistakes, but she is the best person I have ever met and now she is gone.

I know it sounds very quick but it has been hell for the last 5 weeks.We have been at war for the whole time. She moved into her mothers and I still didn't let it go.

I have lost 2.5 stone (Not that I didn't need to lose a bit) and she is totally wrecked. She says I'm not the man she married and she doesn't know me anymore. She feels empty. I need to give her time and space and hope things get better. But I feel I have lost everything.

Jealousy has done this.

Ok are you telling us the whole story here? How nuts have you been going over this whole thing? Jealousy and anger is understandable in this situation, I'm sure she realises this, but did you go too far or what?

Big Bag of Chips

Jealousy HASN'T done this.

Lies and deceit and hiding things, has done this. I understand that she thinks telling you would have hurt you... but why on earth would she have been doing ANYTHING that she knew would hurt her husband if he found out??

The truth is always better.

So she continued to lie to you (admittedly to protect you) but surely now she can see that the lie was much much worse than the truth.

I don't think it is fair to lay all the blame at your feet.

MissFlitworth

Surely if you were able to forgive her for having an emotional affair & kissing another man not 8 months ago then she should be able to forgive you for being jealous of her still being in contact with that guy & lying to you?

TBH she owes you a pretty huge apology, after 4 children & 17 years of marriage she's cheated on you, lied to you & left you in the space of a year?

LegacyUser

She lied to you. She cheated on you. And lied to you some more after she supposedly confessed.

You're very trusting, and for no good reason that I can see, if you believe so easily that there was only one kiss. Liars usually don't just lie about one thing.

And she's ended the relationship with you because you were jealous? This is just unreal.

What advice are you looking for? Here's some - avoid manipulators. She seems to be an expert if she has you feeling guilty for ruining the relationship after she was running around behind your back with an old flame.

She's probably using your very reasonable jealousy of her as an excuse to split up so that she can pursue a relationship with this other man.

I am a friend

So she is willing to give up on 17 years together after only 5 weeks of grief for domething she caused (by cheating on you)...

That sounds very dodgy... Are you sure it's finished with him?

TheBig

The arguments were bad. They ended up being that she wanted me out and I refused. So now she has moved out and the kids are with me. Not what I want.
I'm not trying to lay the blame on her or me, I just want people to take a step back and think before they jump.

I hope we can resolve things. I am destroyed by this. Problem is she knows. And she is also destroyed by it but won't talk. Now she is away in New York with work for 2 weeks and after an arguement on Monday she has cut all contact and says she will never come back to me.

Can people say things like that on the spur of the moment and not mean them?

TheBig

I am a friend wrote: »

So she is willing to give up on 17 years together after only 5 weeks of grief for domething she caused (by cheating on you)...

That sounds very dodgy... Are you sure it's finished with him?

Yes I am sure. What she hates is the doubt I have and won't make any allowance for my jealous behaviour.

Big Bag of Chips

Have you changed username OP?

I'd be very suspicious of her not making allowances for you. and the fact that she has moved out and left you with the kids? is that short term while she is in NY, or longterm?

floorpie

There's more to this than you know. I'm not talking about the relations between her and that lonely guy. But situations like this tend to have been coming for a while. Maybe she felt stuck in a rut or "mid life crisis" or etc etc etc, but that's not the point, she's using your 'jealousy' as an excuse to try and improve her situation in a socially acceptable way. She can't move back into her mother's saying "i was bored with things" (for example) without pressure to get back together, but she can go saying "he's jealous and controlling, hear my story" and it's more acceptable.

See where you said yous had 'other problems', that's the real problem, which you obviously know, but focussing on the 'jealousy' stuff now is gonna get you nowhere because it's plainly obvious that anybody would be jealous in that situation and that she's being unreasonable (unless there's more to the story).

I really hope you can work it out. The fact that yous have been talking (or arguing even) since she moved out is probably a semi-good sign, i'd guess.

Edit: Just to sum it up, i'd hazard a guess that the 'jealousy' is completely irrelevant.

I am a friend

TheBig wrote: »

Yes I am sure. What she hates is the doubt I have and won't make any allowance for my jealous behaviour.

I think it's a bit rich that she won't make any allowance for jealousy when she was cheating on you... She is playing a very clever game here and looks like she is winning.

BraziliaNZ

TheBig wrote: »

Yes I am sure. What she hates is the doubt I have and won't make any allowance for my jealous behaviour.

To me it sounds like she's using this situation as a springboard to get out, she has probably wanted out of the relationship for a while. Leave her be while she's in New York, maybe try talking to her when she's back, but it really sounds to me like she's finished with the relationship and wants to seperate. Just try to act rationally or you'll make even more of a fool of yourself.

Scratch that. You have obviously been trying and she knows she wants you back. You really need to leave it up to her to do the talking with you - then again I don't know how these things work when kids are involved.

floorpie

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

but it really sounds to me like she's finished with the relationship

That may be how she feels, and probably felt for a while, BUT, it's common enough for people to change their minds when they remove themselves from the relationship and start looking at it in an objective light.

Btw to allay some of the hate mongering going on, she's not some sort of master manipulator; as heartbreaking as a situation like this is on a personal level, it's a common pattern that happens with alot of breakups and was probably just her way of coping with whatever she felt she had to cope with. But as such, it's possible to be resolved if you focus on the true fundamental problems of the relationship and not on the superficialities of the split (jealousy, that other guy etc).

maxwell smart

She is not a bad person. She is full of goodness (that sounds ridiculous even just typing it, but it is true). She was pregnant with our 4th child when she started this contact with him and when she kissed him.

Maybe it is a midlife crisis and I have to be patient. But its very hard. Her sisters are being total bitches to me of course as they only know half the story. They are trying to tell me how to be a good father when they dont even have kids!

I am holding it together in front of the kids but inside I am slowly dying.

LegacyUser

I'm just going to be blunt here. You are fooling yourself and bending over backwards to maintain an illusion of the person you want to believe she is.

Whatever her reasons/excuses, she has been treating you with absolutely no respect. She has been risking her family and the well being of her children in order to engage in this carry on with another man. She has somehow made you feel guilty for being jealous, and now she's used this as an excuse to pack up and move out, and left her own children behind.

For some reason, you are repeatedly trying to take all the blame on yourself, and idealizing her.

This simply isn't healthy behavior. Your children deserve at least one healthy parent, so please do consider seeing a counselor so you can sort out whatever issues are causing this.

Big Bag of Chips

I doubt she has told her family she kissed another guy?

floorpie

yourefoolingyourself wrote: »

For some reason, you are repeatedly trying to take all the blame on yourself, and idealizing her.

This simply isn't healthy behavior

That's pretty much one of the mandatory stages of coping with something like this, it'll change in time to a more realistic interpretation.

Virgil°

maxwell smart wrote: »

She is not a bad person. She is full of goodness (that sounds ridiculous even just typing it, but it is true). She was pregnant with our 4th child when she started this contact with him and when she kissed him.

You know why it sounds ridiculous? Because it IS! Being pregnant is NOT an excuse for cheating. Besides who says it was just a kiss anyway? Her? You know that she's been lying to your face all along, how do you know she hasn't slept with him?

Maybe it is a midlife crisis and I have to be patient. But its very hard. Her sisters are being total bitches to me of course as they only know half the story. They are trying to tell me how to be a good father when they dont even have kids!

Who cares if its a midlife crisis? Mate you're grasping at straws here for any opportunity to forgive her and what's worse is she clearly doesn't want it.
You want to know why her sisters are giving you a hard time? Because your wife, full of goodness that she is, is badmouthing you to them. There's no other possibility here. If she had told them the full story this wouldn't be happening. Are these the actions of someone that loves you?

Look mate I'm on your side here. But lets point out the facts here.


She cheated on you
She promised she wouldn't contact him again
She contacted him again and lied about it
She left you alone to mind the kids by yourself after trying to kick YOU out
She is now portraying you as the bastard to you and her sisters
She is fine with the fact that you are suffering this misplaced guilt over HER actions.

I know what you are going through is hard, probably one of the hardest things someone can go through. But if you want to survive this you have to realise the truth and grow a spine, stand your ground. This woman is no saint. She's not even close, not anymore at least. Whatever happened in those few weeks of arguments(short of physical assault) isn't what landed you here. You were right to be furious with her. Anyone with half a brain would be.
Take care of YOU first and don't take anymore of this from her. Ironically she's more likely to respect you if you stand up for yourself!
All the best.

helimachoptor

Op how do you know what she tells you is the truth? you've called him.. he's hardly going to tell you they've been off shagging every couple of days.
He's probably happy to have sex/attention on tap.

maxwell smart

I guess I don't know. I just believe her I suppose. It's a leap of faith.

Virgil°

maxwell smart wrote: »

I guess I don't know. I just believe her I suppose. It's a leap of faith.

This only means that you believe her because you want to not because its likely to be true im sorry to say.

Distorted

I am a friend wrote: »

So she is willing to give up on 17 years together after only 5 weeks of grief for domething she caused (by cheating on you)...

That sounds very dodgy... Are you sure it's finished with him?

This. I am thinking you are not in the wrong here. Unless you have done something absolutely unforgiveable by way of reaction. She shouldn't have kissed him, shouldn't have been getting secret texts and been "helping him" in secret. Your reaction is not at all unreasonable, and if she were truly sorry, I am thinking she would suck it up. Copules often get over such things, and worse.

maxwell smart

I just hope we can get over this. Life is hard isn't it

Big Bag of Chips

You can't get over it by yourself.

If she has her mind made up (your jealousy aside, as everyone agrees it's just a cover) then nothing you do will bring her back.

Virgil°

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

You can't get over it by yourself.

If she has her mind made up (your jealousy aside, as everyone agrees it's just a cover) then nothing you do will bring her back.

Pretty much this. Most people here are giving you good advice OP and it doesn't seem like you're listening. You can't get through this with her if its not what she wants. I'd bet every red cent to my name that she's going to leave you and she's going to spit in your face as she does it.
Just take her off the pedestal and take care of yourself.

floorpie

Eh i think everyone needs to cool off a little and remember that we're not talking about a summer fling or something here. 17 years, 4 kids, it's a little more complicated that most of us are probably used to. He also doesn't need the situation regurgitated over and over "she did this and that and therefore might have done that"....he knows what happened. It's only gonna turn into an exercise in willpower/masochism for him to keep reading this stuff.

I'd say go and see a proper councillor on your own, when you're ready, to be honest. There's probably a decent chance of yous both getting past it, you just need to know what track to get onto.

Virgil°

To be honest the only reason this might be difficult for him to read is because it has some merit and he's in denial about it. If the stuff I or anyone else here are saying has no semblance of truth then it can be dismissed off hand.
The points are being hammered home about her because its apparent that he still believes he is at fault here and that his lovely wife has done no wrong. Which simply isn't the case if what he's posted is true. We're trying to convince him otherwise. If he goes into communications with his wife thinking the sun shines out of her rear and its all somehow his fault hes going to get trampled IMO.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean about 17 years and kids though. It's bound to make proceedings in getting back together or splitting up more complicated but I fail see how it throws any uncertainty over her cheating, lies and appalling lack of respect.

floorpie

Virgil° wrote: »

To be honest the only reason this might be difficult for him to read is because it has some merit and he's in denial about it. If the stuff I or anyone else here are saying has no semblance of truth then it can be dismissed off hand.

Don't be so simplistic. He's more than likely not in the correct state of mind to be dismissing half the stuff that's been said, even though for all we know and, more importantly, for all *he* knows it is complete bullsh*t. It *might* be true, but how the hell do we know? It's all speculation and conjecture, and everyone's tumbling over themselves to spout a little more. It's not just not helpful, it's possibly destructive.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean about 17 and kids though. It's bound to make proceedings in getting back together or splitting up more complicated but I fail see how it throws any uncertainty over her cheating, lies and appalling lack of respect.

There's no ambiguity about the lies and kissing the guy, i never said there was. It's more important that he gets good advice than, say, someone who's just out of a one year relationship. Surely you can see that a 17 year relationship with kids involved isn't something that should be cast aside without alot of rigorous thought, no matter what had happened?

If he goes into communications with his wife thinking the sun shines out of her rear and its all somehow his fault hes going to get trampled IMO

You're probably correct about this though, to some extent

Virgil°

floorpie wrote: »

Don't be so simplistic. He's more than likely not in the correct state of mind to be dismissing half the stuff that's been said, even though for all we know and, more importantly, for all *he* knows it is complete bullsh*t. It *might* be true, but how the hell do we know? It's all speculation and conjecture, and everyone's tumbling over themselves to spout a little more. It's not just not helpful, it's possibly destructive.

Fair enough. In an attempt to shock him out of his awe and wonder at his supposed loving, perfect wife it might have been a step too far to be filling his head with such things.

There's no ambiguity about the lies and kissing the guy, i never said there was. It's more important that he gets good advice than, say, someone who's just out of a one year relationship. Surely you can see that a 17 year relationship with kids involved isn't something that should be cast aside without alot of rigorous thought, no matter what had happened?

I haven't seen anyone advise the OP to simply "cast aside" his relationship. I certainly didn't advise him as such. In fact as far as I've read its the OP's wife that seems unwilling to make things work, but thats aside form the point really.
If the only people qualified in giving the OP some advice were those that have lost 20 year relationships involving 4 kids I fear he'd be waiting a long time for a reply here.

The only advice I've given is the need to lose this whole idea that he's somehow solely to blame for this situation he finds himself in and actually attempt to hold his own in the upcoming discourse with his wife.
His subsequent replies(acting completely blind to her wrongdoings) lead me to believe that he's going to fall to his knees and beg for forgiveness or something in that ballpark. And if he's got any chance of repairing the relationship or surviving the aftermath he's gotta stand on his feet.
I don't think its prerequisite to have survived 20 years of marriage to give that much to him.

floorpie

That post is a lot less black and white/accusative than the rest of the thread!

Anyway i didn't mean ye'd have to have gone through the same situation to advise, i worded that poorly, i meant that the advice that would apply to someone who was just out of a one year relationship with similar-ish circumstances would be completely different to what this guy needs. For example, he already had issues with jealousy but overcame them and believed that nothing further than kissing happened, he doesn't need to be told repeatedly that probably more than just kissing happened and that she's probably ran off with the guy and etc etc. Because a) we don't know that b) he doesn't know that c) it wont help anybody, particularly when his initial post was about how powerful jealousy is. After a one year breakup you could say 'f*ck it, she's a cheating ho, she probably did more than just kiss, move on!' and everyone wins, this guy needs a better game-plan than anger and jealousy.

Virgil°

floorpie wrote: »

This guy needs a better game-plan than anger and jealousy.

True enough, however at the moment he's completely the opposite end of the spectrum which isn't going to produce results either.

Little Acorn

Your suspicions were well founded.
After cheating on you, the onus was on her to earn that trust back.
She obviously did not earn that trust back, because you still had your suspicions, and it turns out that you were absolutely right that she was still in contact with him.
She says that it wasn't an affair, but why should you believe a word that comes out of her mouth, after her already betraying you twice?
As I said the onus to earn back trust was on her not you.
She should not have been having ANY contact with the man she cheated on you with, nevermind then lying about said contact.

I just find it very suspicious that this man is just after getting separated from his wife/girlfriend, and on you discovering this information, your wife then finishes your 17 year relationship.
Kinda handy how they are both now "single" and out of their relationships at the same time.

I don't know what to advise you regarding the future with your ex, but I just think you should realise that from what you've told us so far, I don't think you have done much wrong, and you need to stop beating yourself up and blaming yourself. She seems more at fault than you.

Unless there are other things that you have left out?

ToyotaCorolla

You say you spoke to the other guy and your satisfied that he's telling the truth! Based on what his word you dont even know him.

Your wife is doing her best to destroy your marriage and your blaming yourself. Your wife is treating you like a fool. END OF STORY!! You need to come out of this zombie like trance your in and start fighting for your marriage and your family.

You said you feel sorry for the other guy - he kissed your wife. Grow some balls

maxwell smart

Thanks for the thoughts and advice so far, however varied!

I genuinely believe there is nothing going on between them. But I do know its some sort of emotional relationship. That will make it hard for me to rescue the situation.

I know some of you are probably wondering what sort of an idiot I am, well I think she is worth it. Everyone makes mistakes.

I did however make a huge mistake yesterday. I bumped into her friend and blurted out the whole thing. She of course rang my wife who is very very pissed. It was a stupid thing to do and a bit petty.

I should add that we haven't had sex in 4 months as she had our youngest in July. She had a section. Look at it this way, she has a marina coil ready to be put back in but refuses as she doesn't want sex, she never wears her "Sexy undies" when going out and she can't use condoms as she has an allergy to some chemical in them. So I think that is good evidence she is not sleeping with the guy, Also I found him on Facebook. He is no oil painting and my wife has high standards (He said smiling!)

What can I do? If she is not "with" this guy I want her back. If she is, I don't know. She has to want to come back.

There is lots of crap on the net about "winning your ex back" (Yes I am sad and desperate).

It seems to focus on me getting myself together. Turning myself back into the guy I was when we fell in love. Getting in shape, new clothes and a new attitude. At the moment I don't think my wife finds it nice to be in my company as I'm like a dark cloud.

If I get myself together, show her that I'm doing fine without her (apart from making me feel better) would she be interested again? (nobody can answer that but its boards.ie, go ahead!).

Thanks

LegacyUser

I was in a similar situation. Married 20+ years and kids still in school. Wife went off the rails a bit and started drinking with a crowd in town. She was busy sending lovey dovey messages to some other guy.

I confronted her about it. She said it had stopped. It didn't. Then she didn't come home one night.

The story I was told and this compares to you story was this; she had been with the other guy but nothing ever happened. She admitted to kissing him. A lot. She'd gone to his house and passed out from drink.

Like the guy in your tale he had just 'suffered' an emotional upset in his life and they had started with just talking.

During counselling it emerged that they'd been on his bed together when she passed out. Further counseling and then some more trickle truth; she had taken off her clothes. But hey, I had anger and jelousey issues and I should learn to deal with them.

Beware of that trickle truth. First she isn't doing anything. Then she's texting him on a regular basis. There isn't anything to worry about; then she admits to kissing him.

In short she has carried on an emotional affair. She has betrayed your trust and kissed some other guy. He had his tongue down her mouth. What else........?

She may well be telling you all the truth. Either way as the singer said, "...but a man never got a woman back. Not by begging on his knees"

The advice you may find online is to do a 180. Not a guide to breaking up a marrige but some useful advice about being able to stand on your own two feet. Take what you need from it, leave the rest if you want.

The important thing is to remain strong. Sort out your other problems as much as you are able to by yourself.

Accept the situation and start to work for your kids. Put your energy into that for a start. Channel your anger into something constructive like a small project around the house. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. Strong is attractive.




The 180

1. Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Don't point out "good points" in marriage.

4. Don't follow her/him around the house.

5. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

6. Don't ask for help from the family members of your wayward partner.

7. Don't ask for reassurances.

8. Don't buy or give gifts.

9. Don't schedule dates together.

10. Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you really think about it, he/she is, at this particular moment, not very loveable.

11. Do more than act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

13. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue, no matter how much you want to!

15. If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.

16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the wayward partner)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack there of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life...with out them!

17. Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available...for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.

18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around, not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!

21. Don't be overly enthusiastic.

22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!

23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.

27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!

30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"

32. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the affair partner.

fungun

Lets leave aside the rights and wrongs of her actions and yours.

If she is being honest about the reason for her leaving (which sounds like an overreaction) then she should accept an offer to do couples counselling, so I would ask her to do this.

If she does not accept this, then Id have to think that she is looking for an excuse to get out rather than really being committed to your reln, as after 17 years I would not expect someone to walk for such a relatively small issue as what you have done

maxwell smart

Guest #1 I can't quote you as I'm answering on my phone, but....

1. Did you try it?
2. Did it work?
3. Are you back together?

And thanks for the info, it means a lot that people our there who went through what I am did something and understand what I'm going through.
I will be honest, if they did sleep together I would forgive her if she came back to me with a genuine intention of working our marriage out.

Thanks again

LegacyUser

maxwell smart wrote: »

Guest #1 I can't quote you as I'm answering on my phone, but....

1. Did you try it?
2. Did it work?
3. Are you back together?

And thanks for the info, it means a lot that people our there who went through what I am did something and understand what I'm going through.
I will be honest, if they did sleep together I would forgive her if she came back to me with a genuine intention of working our marriage out.

Thanks again

I did try it to an extent. As stated its not a plan to break up a marraige its about standing up and regaining your respect for yourself first and from others which will follow.

My wife and I were living separate lives and she was out of the house. We fought a lot. I fell out with members of her family too, which is similar to your situation. I never argued with them, I always said hello, was polite and friendly. I still didn't discuss my family arrangments with them suffice to say that "things are working out", you know, vague but positive stuff.

I took on the running of the house, picking up the slack on the jobs which were shared and kept the place tidy and clean (to man standards I'm afraid). I built some small stuff outside which I paid for but was overdue as a joint project. I organised the car pooling with neighbours. Everything in fact to keep life as normal as possible for the kids.

I also talked to them (the kids) about the situation and while I did moan about things I tried to paint a positive picture of their mother and reassured them that things for them, at least, were still the same.

At the same time I started counselling for myself. It cost me from my own pocket but it was helpful to me and I could bitch and whine there as much as I wanted. I was paying for the privilege after all.

I organised some weekend breaks away for myself and the kids. This was a biggie as there wasn't a place in the (happy) family unit for her. She in turn started to organise her own stuff, to compete, not to be left out. But it meant that she had noticed, and I fully supported all plans made by her.

I rang her with specific needs and questions. I worked out most of my problems myself, got advice from family, friends and internet. Kept the conversations to that and was polite when I said I had to go.

I did sleep a lot so that I wasn't tired, that meant cutting out any beers in the evening and late night films on TV. No hardship really plus I was getting fitter looking, saving money (which was sorely needed), had energy and interest in life.

We started to meet. I listened and listened and listened. After that I listened some more. I wanted at times to strangle her. I wanted to hurt her as much as I felt hurt. I longed to just slap her face - hard. But I let all that pass. We agreed counselling together.

Putting the past behind you is harder that you might think. Moving forward together is hard when you've fallen out of step. Trust is a hard thing to regain or rebuild, needs a lot of work. You can't stick your head in the sand and pretend it never happened at the same time you can't throw it in her face when you argue about petty crap like which sliced pan is best to buy for tea.

Until you actually know for sure or know a completly different story about events; then you pretty much have to accept them as told by her to you. There isn't any peace in thinking the worst.

We are together. The positive growth (on both sides) has given a new perspective to our relationship. We are, as sometime down the road she said , "only together because we want to be, not because we need to be"

I wasn't a saint. I wasn't the totally wronged partner in everything. I had to look at all that too and take responsibility for my own ****. But I did it standing on my feet.

Good Luck

maxwell smart

Gives me a little bit of hope for the dark winter ahead. Christmas should be a total blast!

discus

guest#1 wrote: »

I was in a similar situation. Married 20+ years and kids still in school. Wife went off the rails a bit and started drinking with a crowd in town. She was busy sending lovey dovey messages to some other guy.

I confronted her about it. She said it had stopped. It didn't. Then she didn't come home one night.

The story I was told and this compares to you story was this; she had been with the other guy but nothing ever happened. She admitted to kissing him. A lot. She'd gone to his house and passed out from drink.

Like the guy in your tale he had just 'suffered' an emotional upset in his life and they had started with just talking.

During counselling it emerged that they'd been on his bed together when she passed out. Further counseling and then some more trickle truth; she had taken off her clothes. But hey, I had anger and jelousey issues and I should learn to deal with them.

Beware of that trickle truth. First she isn't doing anything. Then she's texting him on a regular basis. There isn't anything to worry about; then she admits to kissing him.

In short she has carried on an emotional affair. She has betrayed your trust and kissed some other guy. He had his tongue down her mouth. What else........?

She may well be telling you all the truth. Either way as the singer said, "...but a man never got a woman back. Not by begging on his knees"

The advice you may find online is to do a 180. Not a guide to breaking up a marrige but some useful advice about being able to stand on your own two feet. Take what you need from it, leave the rest if you want.

The important thing is to remain strong. Sort out your other problems as much as you are able to by yourself.

Accept the situation and start to work for your kids. Put your energy into that for a start. Channel your anger into something constructive like a small project around the house. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. Strong is attractive.




The 180

1. Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Don't point out "good points" in marriage.

4. Don't follow her/him around the house.

5. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

6. Don't ask for help from the family members of your wayward partner.

7. Don't ask for reassurances.

8. Don't buy or give gifts.

9. Don't schedule dates together.

10. Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you really think about it, he/she is, at this particular moment, not very loveable.

11. Do more than act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

13. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue, no matter how much you want to!

15. If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.

16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the wayward partner)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack there of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life...with out them!

17. Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available...for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.

18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around, not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!

21. Don't be overly enthusiastic.

22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!

23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.

27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!

30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"

32. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the affair partner.

Mystery poster, that post could change this mans life for the better!

discus

maxwell smart wrote: »

Gives me a little bit of hope for the dark winter ahead. Christmas should be a total blast!

Yeah, it won't be the best.

Remember, that other lad is the snake. Your wife has put herself before you or her family.

maxwell smart

Our last few 'chats' via Skype I have refused to engage in the usual warfare with her, which is I believe both puzzling and annoying her. Something she said once or twice before to me, but is now repeating in a much more vociferous way is 'when I come home, if you're still there I can't stay there. I don't feel safe in the house with you'.
What is that about do you reckon? Is she trying to make it look like I'm not safe to be with? She suspects that if asked the kids would vote to stay with me in the house (as her behaviour has affected them these last weeks and months). For any possible case in the future? It's not making sense to me at all. Although not much is at this stage.

discus

maxwell smart wrote: »

Our last few 'chats' via Skype I have refused to engage in the usual warfare with her, which is I believe both puzzling and annoying her. Something she said once or twice before to me, but is now repeating in a much more vociferous way is 'when I come home, if you're still there I can't stay there. I don't feel safe in the house with you'.
What is that about do you reckon? Is she trying to make it look like I'm not safe to be with? She suspects that if asked the kids would vote to stay with me in the house (as her behaviour has affected them these last weeks and months). For any possible case in the future? It's not making sense to me at all. Although not much is at this stage.

No one can answer that, not based on what we know of her (which is a few sentences). Go with your gut instinct. If you think it's for a possible future case, then get talking to a solicitor. I wouldn't tell anyone about that though, incase it gets back to her.

maxwell smart

discus wrote: »

Mystery poster, that post could change this mans life for the better!

Mystery poster, your post only lacked a link to where I could buy your e-book (along with several bonus books) for a great price!

Really though, great advice, I'm doing it since yesterday.

maxwell smart

Just want to update people and see if there are any opinions on what to do.

My wife returns from her long trip next Sunday. She has requested via text on Skype a divorce. That was about 10 days ago. Since then she has ignored me until today, when she said that she had had a very lonely time away, but had grown strong from it and was ready to start the rest of her life (without me was the unsaid words I believe).

Now I have hurt her and she me, but I want this marriage to work somehow.

I am going to try the suggestions on the "mystery poster" and work on myself and try to get her interested in me again.

But I feel that I am missing something. My wife is hurting now, feeling alone, angry, has not seen the kids in so long and I'm wondering if she is readying herself for a battle when she gets back. There won't be one.

Should I just come out and say "I'm sorry for hurting you, lets try to work this out. (Which i think she will refuse at this stage). Should I just be nice and friendly to her, with no pressure and see if we can get to a stage where she remembers that I was the person she loved completely Or should I just play it cool, pretend it does not bother me either way and hope she is interested in my attitude.

I simply don't know what to do. All I know is that I want my wife and my life back. Not as before, but better.

I have her family to battle against also so that is another difficulty.

Advice welcome!!