You're not drunk, you're just an idiot

BeerNut

Really interesting piece on the BBC website today about how the anti-social effects often blamed on binge drinking are far more to do with people simply being annoying arsewits.

The full study is here.

BaZmO*

Great read, and she makes a lot of valid points.

Turbulent Bill

Hmm, it's a good read but I don't fully buy it. The premise (as I read it) is people's behaviour to alcohol is guided by society's expectations - they do as drunk people are expected, rather than how they actually feel. The problem though is social problems almost always involve multiple people together, and I don't know if you can separate groupthink from alcohol effects.

There's a small issue too that author's research group (though independent according to their site) has conducted work for the drinks industry, who obviously have a big interest in this.

BeerNut

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

social problems almost always involve multiple people together

That's kinda built in to the meaning of "social", yes.

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

I don't know if you can separate groupthink from alcohol effects.

What do you mean? Surely if the placebo experiments run double-blind show that you can separate the alcohol effect then it's pretty much proven.

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

that author's research group (though independent according to their site) has conducted work for the drinks industry, who obviously have a big interest in this.

Our national alcohol policy is largely dictated by a different wing of the drinks industry. Isn't it nice to have a change? Note that she does criticise industry initiatives like drinkaware as being counter-effective.

Technocentral

I'll raise a glass to those findings!

Turbulent Bill

BeerNut wrote: »

That's kinda built in to the meaning of "social", yes.

What do you mean? Surely if the placebo experiments run double-blind show that you can separate the alcohol effect then it's pretty much proven.

Our national alcohol policy is largely dictated by a different wing of the drinks industry. Isn't it nice to have a change? Note that she does criticise industry initiatives like drinkaware as being counter-effective.

What I was trying to get at is the placebo experiments (presumably) mimic what people do in pubs - sitting around in groups, drinking. This correctly allows you to separate the alcohol effect from the social effect of just having people together.

However, there are plenty of anti-social issues involving drunk individuals (vandalism, unprevoked assault etc.) which don't involve playing to the crowd and are rarely commited by sober people. I'm not for a moment suggesting that bingeing solely causes people to act like this, but it might be contributory.

The point about industry research is that it's not clear what the terms of reference were - they can only comment on what they were asked to study.

BeerNut

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

there are plenty of anti-social issues involving drunk individuals (vandalism, unprevoked assault etc.) which don't involve playing to the crowd and are rarely commited by sober people.

I think you're misreading the experiment. They are saying that these acts will still be committed by sober people if they think they're drunk and that this is what drunkeness causes.

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

The point about industry research is that it's not clear what the terms of reference were - they can only comment on what they were asked to study.

The reports on the website name who, if anyone, the report was done for. I don't see this one as having been commissioned by anyone.

johnnyskeleton

I'm pretty certain that there is scientific evidence that alcohol does in fact reduce inhibitions.

BeerNut

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I'm pretty certain that there is scientific evidence that alcohol does in fact reduce inhibitions.

That doesn't mean that it's required for inhibitions to be lowered, though. That's the point of the study.

ITS_A_BADGER

<snip>

I think this guy sums it up the best...

Mr Magnolia

ITS_A_BADGER, please take some time to read the forum charter.

ITS_A_BADGER

Mr Magnolia wrote: »

ITS_A_BADGER, please take some time to read the forum charter.

umm i read the rules but i dont understand why you deleted the link? it was meant in parody and ive read the rules and the only conclusion i can take is that you thought i was badmouthing alcohol which i wasnt. if you consider the source content (the simpsons) for god sake youd know it was in parody. however i apologize if you feel it broke the rules .

Mr Magnolia

It seemed like a juvenile submission and was deleted as such. I would be interested in what you thought the video supposed to be a parody of. We can take the discussion to PM to avoid pulling the thread off topic if you would like to clarify.

overshoot

There are other societies (such as Latin and Mediterranean cultures in particular, but in fact the vast majority of cultures), where drinking is not associated with these undesirable behaviours - cultures where alcohol is just a morally neutral, normal, integral part of ordinary, everyday life - about on a par with, say, coffee or tea. These are known as "integrated" drinking cultures.

i think this is a good point, alcohol is in some ways a shunned thing here, but i was in portugal and the much celebrated coffee shops of the med that everyone says we should be replicating will sell a beer as easy as a coffee. i saw an old man having a half pint at 9.30 am and no one would think twice there.
iv always felt alcohol can bring out your emotions at the time, if you get pissed off alchol will amplify that... if you force everyone to drink at the same time and fire them all onto the street at the same time you get a higher than usual group of pissed off people in a small area and where does that lead?
24hr drinking i swear! in a month people would be sick of beer/broke, or at least people would leave in a trickle and not pack into the chipper at once