NYC marathon severely restricts guaranteed entry policy from 2013

Peckham

No more guaranteed entry for those with 3 refusals. Very tough qualifying times.

http://www.ingnycmarathon.org/entrantinfo/Gauranteed_Entry_Guidelines.htm

Brianderunner

Makes sense i suppose and it probably had to happen. It's made qualifying into it close to impossible for me now :mad:

I'm assuming there's still a lottery system in place just not the 3 rejections and you're in thing.

Peckham

Not clear whether the lottery is still in place, but would expect it is.

This change in entry guidelines will probably force me to try and shoot for sub-2:55 in Boston to give me guaranteed entry for 2012 race (which I would cancel and postpone to 2013).

RayCun

Tougher entry times than Boston? (or am I reading it wrong?)

Dropping guaranteed entry for people who have run 15 previous NYC marathons is interesting. I wonder how many people were getting in that way?

Highway_To_Hell

I'm happy , I cant remember if I first entered the lottery in 2009 or 2010 but it looks like I will get an entry either in 2012 0r 2013.

Peckham

RayCun wrote: »

Tougher entry times than Boston? (or am I reading it wrong?)

You're reading it correctly. I guess NYC has a different ethos to Boston. On the NYC qualifying page it says:

We believe that non-guaranteed entry is an essential element of the democracy of our marathon, and that it enhances the diversity of the marathon field.

Basically, they don't want the event dominated by speedsters.

However, it's interesting that both Boston and New York are tightening their qualifying times, whereas London is loosening theirs.

happygoose

Not that I'll be doing NYC but am I reading correctly that you'll get in with a 1:23 half now? If so, was it always the case that you could qualify with a half marathon time?

Brianderunner

Peckham wrote: »

However, it's interesting that both Boston and New York are tightening their qualifying times, whereas London is loosening theirs.

London is only doing it for UK residents though, whereas NY and Boston is for worldwide entry.

TFBubendorfer

RayCun wrote: »

Tougher entry times than Boston?

But in Boston, the qualifier times were always THE way to get an entry. The majority of runners get their number that way.

For New York, the majority of entrants came via the lottery and the qualifier times were for the select few.

RacoonQueen

happygoose wrote: »

Not that I'll be doing NYC but am I reading correctly that you'll get in with a 1:23 half now? If so, was it always the case that you could qualify with a half marathon time?

As long as I've been looking at the entry to both Boston and NY you could get into NY with a half marathon time, they've always had tighter qualifying times too.

Seems from that graphic on that page they're doing the two different qualifying times thing now though? 25% of the womens field get in with a 3:23 the rest have to go sub 3. It was only 3:23 previously. Presumably, now anything over 3 will go into a seperate lottery and won't be guaranteed entry on that time, similar to the new Boston entry system?

Gringo78

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Seems from that graphic on that page they're doing the two different qualifying times thing now though? 25% of the womens field get in with a 3:23 the rest have to go sub 3. It was only 3:23 previously. Presumably, now anything over 3 will go into a seperate lottery and won't be guaranteed entry on that time, similar to the new Boston entry system?

I think you have missunderstood that - 3:23 is the current standard for women, its still valid for 2012 entry. From 2013 onward, guaranteed entry is available to a 75% age graded performance i.e sub 3. If you are slower than this, then its into the lottery with eneryone else.

average_runner

When is this coming into force?

I am sure of my entry in 2013 as will have 3 refusals, is this still on?

Peckham

Yes, you should be okay. Assuming that the three races you were rejected for were were 2010, 2011 and 2012 then you're in.

Applicants denied entry for the three years 2009-2011 will be eligible for guaranteed entry in 2012. Applicants denied entry for the three years 2010-2012 will be eligible for guaranteed entry in 2013. Applicants denied entry for the three years 2011-2013 will not be eligible for guaranteed entry in 2014.

RacoonQueen

Gringo78 wrote: »

I think you have missunderstood that - 3:23 is the current standard for women, its still valid for 2012 entry. From 2013 onward, guaranteed entry is available to a 75% age graded performance i.e sub 3. If you are slower than this, then its into the lottery with eneryone else.

Ah right, I didn't read it just had a glance at it. They're seriously tough age times, they were already tougher than Boston and London for entry. Must read it properly...

Any reason for them changing the times?

happygoose

RacoonQueen wrote: »

As long as I've been looking at the entry to both Boston and NY you could get into NY with a half marathon time, they've always had tighter qualifying times too.

Nice one.

Brianderunner

I always thought the half entry to NY was only through the New York marathon series half races. Am i wrong?

Also whats to stop your faster friend running a half/full in your name to secure the entry for you? Not that i've ever considered that of course

Gringo78

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Any reason for them changing the times?

Yes, to free up more slots for the lottery.

I imagine over the last few years with people hitting the times, rolling over the cancellation year on year, entering the lottery year on year to eventually secure an entry (and then cancelling it to roll it forward to when it suits) that they got to the stage where they had very few places left to offer in the lottery.

The rule changes may actually make it easier to win a place through the lottery - everyone seemed to be accomodated eventually under the old system, it'll probably work out that way under the new system also.

pgmcpq

Brianderunner wrote: »

I always thought the half entry to NY was only through the New York marathon series half races. Am i wrong?

Also whats to stop your faster friend running a half/full in your name to secure the entry for you? Not that i've ever considered that of course

It can be any (certified, etc) HM. Yes, it is possible to cheat but that's true of any QT for any event.

Personally I'm pretty annoyed about this. I've missed NY with injury this year. The new times are probably beyond me - certainly for a while, and since NYRR are believed to skew the open lottery against local runners (I'm local and a NYRR member) in an agreement with the city to drive up tourism this means the 9+1 option is the only way to get in for me. The numbers of guaranteed entries is a small fraction (<10% iirc) of the total entries so unless there has been a sudden explosion of numbers applying with guaranteed times, I cannot understand this.

Brianderunner

pgmcpq wrote: »

It can be any (certified, etc) HM. Yes, it is possible to cheat but that's true of any QT for any event.

I'll have to look into that so in the future as my way into the race. Don't see how its any different to falsely saying you live in the UK to get into London through the GFA and everyone's at that.

happygoose

Hmm...so in theory someone could sell 1:23's of their time, should they be able to run a HM in that time albeit against race rules, for an entry for someone else to the NYC marathon...interesting...

pgmcpq

Brianderunner wrote: »

I'll have to look into that so in the future as my way into the race. Don't see how its any different to falsely saying you live in the UK to get into London through the GFA and everyone's at that.

From a runner ethics point of view: using a friend's address is one thing - lying about a race time is another. Very, very different.

Having said that after a race this year I was looking through the finish line photos to try to identify someone who had passed me in the last mile. From the 10 ro 20 people who passed the finish line in front of me, I was amazed at how many were clearly running with other peoples numbers ( Guys with numbers that listed as female, etc ).

RayCun

Brianderunner wrote: »

I'll have to look into that so in the future as my way into the race.

You wouldn't target a 1.23 half marathon?

Brianderunner

happygoose wrote: »

Hmm...so in theory someone could sell 1:23's of their time, should they be able to run a HM in that time albeit against race rules, for an entry for someone else to the NYC marathon...interesting...

Get a fast friend to do a 1'18 or 1'19, pay his entry fee and let him run under your name, wearing a hat or something so he's not recognised. You can't tell me the New York marathon are gonna trawl through marathon foto to prove that it's actually you.

It's blatant cheating but you could be waiting years to get through honestly, nice guy finishes last.

Mods if this is against the charter apologies and feel free to delete.

Brianderunner

pgmcpq wrote: »

From a runner ethics point of view: using a friend's address is one thing - lying about a race time is another. Very, very different.

Your still pulling the wool over the organisers eyes and cheating to get in either way, it is worse than the fake address i will admit.

RayCun wrote: »

You wouldn't target a 1.23 half marathon?

Thats for this year but its goes down to 1'19 the year after, which is beyond me i think.

robinph

If I was able to knock out a 1:19 half to command, I'd not be risking my name by running under someone else's name so they could get into NY marathon and then run it slowly from the front corral at the start.

RacoonQueen

Brianderunner wrote: »

I'll have to look into that so in the future as my way into the race. Don't see how its any different to falsely saying you live in the UK to get into London through the GFA and everyone's at that.

Well it's completely different. It's even on the London marathon website that all Irish people have to do is have a contact address in the UK IIRC.

You could run a sub 80 btw, I see no reason whatsoever why you couldn't...

tunguska

So in 5 years time a bloke under 40 would have to run sub 2:45 to qualify? Am I reading that right? I understand their rationale, those times are still reasonable enough.

Brianderunner

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Well it's completely different. It's even on the London marathon website that all Irish people have to do is have a contact address in the UK IIRC.

From the website "Please note, only UK residents can apply for a good for age entry into the Virgin London Marathon. If you're applying from overseas you'll need to enter the overseas ballot".

So Irish people are cheating their way in year after year. Not as bad as letting someone else run for you but its cheating nonetheless.

TFBubendorfer

If they say you need a 1:23 half marathon time, do they mean 1:23:00 or 1:23:59?

DanielR

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

If they say you need a 1:23 half marathon time, do they mean 1:23:00 or 1:23:59?

They have always used the rule that "All times must be run at, or faster than, the posted time", and added the .00 to the times. So running 1.23.00 makes you qualified for 2012 but 1.23.01 will not. (And hence 1.19.00 is ok for 2013, and 1.19.01 not)

RayCun

Brianderunner wrote: »

Thats for this year but its goes down to 1'19 the year after, which is beyond me i think.

I agree with RQ, you're selling yourself short.