Do you train your mind?

tunguska

Reading The lore of running by Noakes at the moment and theres a great chapter on training the mind. I've been doing most of what he recommends already but I've picked up a few good tips that I plan on using. Im not sure about everybody but I only know of one other runner who works on the mental side of his training. Everybody else I've talked to doesnt bother. For me running is 99% psychological and 1% physical. After every race I'll sit with pen and paper and breakdown what happened during the race and most importantly what I was thinking at crucial points. I gain so much from this exercise, insight into my own thought processes that can make or break me next time round.
My question is does anybody else do this, do you train your mind?

elvis jones

tunguska wrote: »

Reading The lore of running by Noakes at the moment and theres a great chapter on training the mind. I've been doing most of what he recommends already but I've picked up a few good tips that I plan on using. Im not sure about everybody but I only know of one other runner who works on the mental side of his training. Everybody else I've talked to doesnt bother. For me running is 99% psychological and 1% physical. After every race I'll sit with pen and paper and breakdown what happened during the race and most importantly what I was thinking at crucial points. I gain so much from this exercise, insight into my own thought processes that can make or break me next time round.
My question is does anybody else do this, do you train your mind?

Couldn't agree more with the above.

As someone who has come from running 500m to fingers crossed DCM, i can say that the mind will give up before the body.

I do a run in my mind before i leave the house and i will i have times where the mind is telling my to give up but you must beat it and when i do i know it makes me smile !

Not to mention the head space i get on the back roads of Laois to reduce the stress levels and think about things in my every day life.

An example is that i've had a bad 2 weeks and missed my 20 miler but am doing it this wen, i have my mind told that this is the final hurdle before DCM. I know that when i do the 20 miler the final hurdle is jumped and i'm ready for the start line.

rom

tunguska wrote: »

Reading The lore of running by Noakes at the moment and theres a great chapter on training the mind. I've been doing most of what he recommends already but I've picked up a few good tips that I plan on using. Im not sure about everybody but I only know of one other runner who works on the mental side of his training. Everybody else I've talked to doesnt bother. For me running is 99% psychological and 1% physical. After every race I'll sit with pen and paper and breakdown what happened during the race and most importantly what I was thinking at crucial points. I gain so much from this exercise, insight into my own thought processes that can make or break me next time round.
My question is does anybody else do this, do you train your mind?

I think 99% psychological is a bit much but it is defo very important. Like getting a 18 or 20 miler done very near a marathon. Its a physicological thing that I can do it if you have done it before. Its still going to be hard on the day but you are going to think I can do it. As doing a single or two 18 milers ain't going to make me much better runner.

TFBubendorfer

I've tried visualising races beforehand, but with very limited success.

The one notable exception was last week's half marathon in Valentia; as we have a house there, I knew the course like the back of my hand which really helped preparing me for the hills. I also managed to have the strong finish after passing the Marina, just like in the visualisation the night before the race. In previous races, that never worked in practise.

I know a couple of runners who swear by it, most notably Stuart Mills, a Kiwi ultra runner living in England. In his blog he keeps going on and on about the stuff.

RacoonQueen

On your recommendation Tunguska I picked up bounce a few months ago, haven't got around to reading it yet but it looks like an interesting read.
I know a lot of my racing and training problems are in your head. I'm very open about thinking that and think if I could sort that out racing would be much easier for me.

Haven't read that part in Lore of Running either, must give that a glance too.

I often visualise races before I run them, I'd often be thinking about it constantly for about a week visualising how it's going to go - it usually goes much better in my head! Though, someone pointed out before the national half to minimise how much energy you put into it and don't drain yourself mentally before the big day. Seemed to work alright. Though I still think I could have run faster on the day, fact I didn't give up as I often have recently would suggest that the theory worked.

Really must put bounce down as my next book to read.

Oryx

I don't know that I actively train myself mentally. But I am in the habit of visualising races. During training, how my head feels as I begin can set how well or badly that session goes. Practising turning a bad attitude around it means I can do better quality training with less junk sessions. So its important. I haven't managed it all the time but I always tell myself on the hard days 'this is what makes you stronger' and stuff like that. If anyone heard all the mad positive affirmations going through my head during training theyd laugh.

But during races I think you have to be mentally strong and very focussed. Thats something I'm still learning. My mind still drifts at times and I have to bring it back.

corny

tunguska wrote: »

Reading The lore of running by Noakes at the moment and theres a great chapter on training the mind. I've been doing most of what he recommends already but I've picked up a few good tips that I plan on using. Im not sure about everybody but I only know of one other runner who works on the mental side of his training. Everybody else I've talked to doesnt bother. For me running is 99% psychological and 1% physical. After every race I'll sit with pen and paper and breakdown what happened during the race and most importantly what I was thinking at crucial points. I gain so much from this exercise, insight into my own thought processes that can make or break me next time round.
My question is does anybody else do this, do you train your mind?

I do the same thing but again with limited success.

I've analysed races, reached conclusions and next time out run a shocker based on what i thought would help me. I also find that running my best races i've felt just as mentally tired afterwards as physically. Takes concentration to hold a good steady, taxing pace i've found (mind and body fight with you to slow down).

Work in progress i suppose but i agree there's a huge amount to be gained from narrowing your focus and getting a good game face on you for a race.

Magnet

When I`d gotten to the last hour in the 24hr run I asked myself if I`d be satisfied if I walked the last hour and I just couldn`t let myself do it cos Id just spent spent the previous 23 hours (and few months) telling myself that I could definitely keep going....Mind over matter works, motivation levels do take training but remember it gets used up sometimes i.e overtraining

btw Tunguska you`re on my list of "people i`d like to invite to dinner" :P
Start a log...:rolleyes:

tunney

How you think and what you think during a race will have a huge impact on your performance.

I'm a big fan of Noakes and read and listen to everything of his I can.

Cycling books and sites are also very good for methods for enduring the pain and suffering more.

Read an interview with Craig Alexander at the weekend when asked about suffering in races. He went back to his early years when he was a neo-pro married with young kids. He had 6km to go and wanted to drop out he was hurting that badly. He then thought of the broken fridge and heater and home and how he couldn't afford to replace them unless he won. He won. Sometimes the hunger has to be there as well as the tricks

Gringo78

There was a funny interview with Keith Earls last week where he talked about visualisation - basically his version of it was dreaming about running around the pitch holding the world cup aloft

I never stick the runners on and hit down the road and then decide what the session or target of the training is to be - I always have it decided and planned before the runners go on so that there are no outs once I am out on the road and am not feeling as perky as I thought I was. You have to have the rules layed down beforehand, not make them up as you go along.

In a race, i can usually think back to a time in training or another race when I've felt worse and kept going or found an extra gear. I also like to pick stretches in races beforehand where I know the terrain is flat or slightly downhill or maybe with the wind for a bit - I treat this section as a recovery interval but don't drop the pace (actually maybe even increase the pace slightly). So I might do 2 miles at goal pace, 2 miles recovery, 2 more miles at goal pace - the reality at the end is I've just ticked off 6 miles at goal pace but it feels like an easier interval session.

RedB

Oryx wrote: »

But during races I think you have to be mentally strong and very focussed. Thats something I'm still learning. My mind still drifts at times and I have to bring it back.

+1

I think I read somewhere about the parts of the brain that are involved in this. The front part (lobe?) is involved in the focus function so that could be thinking about your form or maybe visualising and preparing for the next stage but there's a part behind your right ear (?) that keeps you concentrating on that. I've just started working on the mental aspect when I'm training and making myself focus and concentrate better. I assume its probably something that will improve with practice.

Oryx

I also read (probably Joe Friel) that while its important to visualise the result (ie crossing the finish line, holding up the cup) its more important to visualise the stages of getting there. The course, the hills, the pain.

corny

Gringo78 wrote: »

There was a funny interview with Keith Earls last week where he talked about visualisation - basically his version of it was dreaming about running around the pitch holding the world cup aloft

Why didn't he dream about tackling Jonaton Davies first:D

JJJJNR

I meditate sometimes using the mindfullness method when on my long runs, I don't listen to music or anything so it helps concentration, and is fantastic, its very difficult and not recommended when running in built up areas.

A lot of olympic teams seen to use it also.

Ruu_Old

This is why I rarely listen to music anymore when out on long runs. I find it distracting. I go through a mix of emotions and thoughts, empty my brain and then I am left to focus on the run.

JJJJNR

Yes I actually don't like some of the thoughts that come up when I'm out running, some bad memories etc so having a way to focus makes a difference, esp since we hear our own breathing its easy to hone in on this.

tunguska

RacoonQueen wrote: »

I know a lot of my racing and training problems are in your head. I'm very open about thinking that and think if I could sort that out racing would be much easier for me.

Haven't read that part in Lore of Running either, must give that a glance too.

Chapter 8. In it Noakes talks about how the central govener is the one that calls the shots in the last 25% of a race so the key is to condition or train this part of your brain to not quit. Personally I've found this to be true, but at first I didnt cop onto it. Things happen so fast in a race, one minute you feel ok the next your're hurting. And when you start to hurt the central govener kicks in and conspires to get you to slow down. Its a response to a stimulus, which creates thoughts, thoughts then create feelings. These feelings can be positive or negative depending on your self concept(fancy way of saying what you really think about yourself). So if your self concept is poor, when things start to get hard what you really believe about yourself will either inspire you or cut you down. My own solution has been to become hyper aware of my own thinking throughout a race, especially in the last 25%. I've discovered that Im saying all kinds of things to myself in order to get me to slow down, quit, drop out. So i've developed responses to these negative thoughts, basically a way to reprogram and train my central governer. It takes time and practice, you have to keep doing it over and over, but it definitely works.

Magnet wrote: »

btw Tunguska you`re on my list of "people i`d like to invite to dinner" :P
Start a log...:rolleyes:

Thats very kind of you to say so, Im very flattered thanks. I wont be starting a log though(too many arguments). But I have log of everything I've done during this marathon cycle and I'll slap that up after the race for anybody whos interested.

Timmaay

Very interesting thread Tunguska! I wouldn't go as far as 99% psychological, but its certainly very very important, and is often overlooked! There certainly is a balance to be struck, between overthinking your whole raceplan, and too much visualization etc before the race, I have found that I can put too much pressure on. I prefer not too think too much about a race beforehand, and instead focus on the fact that once I have put in the effort in training etc, this will do me good in the race, and that will give me the edge, as oppose to "relying" on needed a physiological edge over other runners.

During the race itself, I certainly use a few mental "tools" as such to help me along, I like to avoid any battles at all earlier in a race and just focus on hitting splits instead, the battles are for later in the race, when it matters! When I'm about 2/3s or 3/4s of the way through a race, which is the most mentally challenging part of the race, I really focus on how long is left in the race, if its say 12mins into a 16min 5k, I tell myself only 4mins of pain, then comes the glory etc etc. If I'm in a battle with another runner, I always tell myself that hes hurting as much as me, I just need to be that tiny bit stronger, and he will break 1st! (the phrase "Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up" comes to mind ha, the other runner is as close breaking point as you are also ha).

Afterwards, I do try to think about how well mentally the race went, and I would say that 90% of my pbs come when I was mentally tuned in, and I certainly have races where a PB, or place against another runner was lost because I simply switched off and did not mentally give it 100%.

cwgatling

Timmaay wrote: »

Afterwards, I do try to think about how well mentally the race went, and I would say that 90% of my pbs come when I was mentally tuned in, and I certainly have races where a PB, or place against another runner was lost because I simply switched off and did not mentally give it 100%.

+1. It's very easy to lose focus when the going gets tough and when I lose focus, the pace drops. I'll always sit down before a race, come up with a plan and make myself realise that it's going to hurt. At least then you're prepared when the pain starts.

Originally Posted by Magnet
btw Tunguska you`re on my list of "people i`d like to invite to dinner" :P
Start a log...

Stock up on Rice Krispie Squares, Magnet :P

TFBubendorfer

tunguska wrote: »

My own solution has been to become hyper aware of my own thinking throughout a race, especially in the last 25%. I've discovered that Im saying all kinds of things to myself in order to get me to slow down, quit, drop out. So i've developed responses to these negative thoughts, basically a way to reprogram and train my central governer.

Could you elaborate on this a bit? I have learned to recognise the point where I'm starting to get well and truly challenged - usually when I start calculating how long is left in a race. What I haven't quite figured out is how to best fight the negative thoughts. I'd be very interested in your strategy, if you're willing to share.

nerraw1111

I suppose I train my mind in the sense that I never bail on a training session early. I make sure to finish every one, despite hurting like hell/not arsed.

My thinking is that if you bail on a session, come race day, it'll be easier to take the foot off the gas or second guess yourself when push comes to shove. "I couldn't finish Wednesday's session, how the hell am I going to...etc"

Bailing on a session won't make a huge difference physically, but it plants a seed in your mind that when it gets tough, it's easier to quit. Now I certainly don't possess the HTFU kind of attitude but unless your risking injury, bailing on a session will affect your mental strength.

It works for me.

Seres

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Bailing on a session won't make a huge difference physically, but it plants a seed in your mind that when it gets tough, it's easier to quit. Now I certainly don't possess the HTFU kind of attitude but unless your risking injury, bailing on a session will affect your mental strength.

It works for me.

thats so true , i took the foot off the gas for one of my tempo sessions in HM program and it took alot of extra mental strenght and mantras to stop myself easing off the next tempo . The thought that i wasnt able to do the session had festered from the day i eased off to the next tempo session and i had myself convinced when the crunch came on the next tempo that i couldnt do it , but i broke it down into very small pieces and it worked (that day anyway ). I think training on your own you gotta dig alot deeper mentally .

tunguska

cwgatling wrote: »

Stock up on Rice Krispie Squares

You better believe it. Ditto for the capri suns.

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Could you elaborate on this a bit? I have learned to recognise the point where I'm starting to get well and truly challenged - usually when I start calculating how long is left in a race. What I haven't quite figured out is how to best fight the negative thoughts. I'd be very interested in your strategy, if you're willing to share.

In previous races I started to really notice what I was thinking when things started to get difficult. After every race I'd sit down and try to remember excatly what I was thinking at these moments. I came up with a list of thoughts, full of crap rationalisations all designed to get me to give up. So the next race I did I watched out for these thoughts and sure enough they came again. I repeated the procedure same as before, wrote them all down but this time I came up with responses to what I was saying. Responses designed to counteract the negativity. For example one big negative thought would occur in the last mile of a race. Say I was in a half marathon and going at a pace which would get me a considerable pb. And also say I was running in a group of two or three lads, I'd get to 12miles gone and all of a sudden I'd feel myself drifting off the back of the other lads. I'd end up finishing just behind them, Pb in the bag, but very angry at myself for dropping off in the last mile. I'd carry out a post mortem and discover that the reason I dropped off goes very deep. Im not gonna get into those reasons here because its way too personal a thing to be sharing with the public. But basically when I found out the reasons why I was dropping off at a crucial point in a race I was able to counteract those reasons and develop responses that I'd use for the next time. And there would be a next time, if I've learned anything the same pattern repeats until you make a conscious effort to stop it. So in the next race I did I got to the last mile or so and the negative thoughts kicked in. In the previous race I wasnt even aware of those thoughts, but they were still controling my actions none the less. This time I caught them whille they were happening.

thirtyfoot

Agree with those who train their mind while training as opposed to in the bath surrounded by Yankee candles. I am a big believer in creating scenarios and simulating while training.

Burgman

tunguska wrote: »

In previous races I started to really notice what I was thinking when things started to get difficult. After every race I'd sit down and try to remember excatly what I was thinking at these moments. I came up with a list of thoughts, full of crap rationalisations all designed to get me to give up. So the next race I did I watched out for these thoughts and sure enough they came again. I repeated the procedure same as before, wrote them all down but this time I came up with responses to what I was saying. Responses designed to counteract the negativity. For example one big negative thought would occur in the last mile of a race. Say I was in a half marathon and going at a pace which would get me a considerable pb. And also say I was running in a group of two or three lads, I'd get to 12miles gone and all of a sudden I'd feel myself drifting off the back of the other lads. I'd end up finishing just behind them, Pb in the bag, but very angry at myself for dropping off in the last mile. I'd carry out a post mortem and discover that the reason I dropped off goes very deep. Im not gonna get into those reasons here because its way too personal a thing to be sharing with the public. But basically when I found out the reasons why I was dropping off at a crucial point in a race I was able to counteract those reasons and develop responses that I'd use for the next time. And there would be a next time, if I've learned anything the same pattern repeats until you make a conscious effort to stop it. So in the next race I did I got to the last mile or so and the negative thoughts kicked in. In the previous race I wasnt even aware of those thoughts, but they were still controling my actions none the less. This time I caught them whille they were happening.

One of the best posts in a long time. Thanks. Great lessons in here.

Marthastew

Burgman wrote: »

One of the best posts in a long time. Thanks. Great lessons in here.

+1 on the above.
I'm wondering have I enough time to retrain and tame my "central governor" before DCM? Like other posters I wouldn't dream of giving up on a training session but I find my focus on wanting a PB always shifts to something like "who cares about a PB?" from 20 miles in most marathons. Damn that central governer....

rom

nerraw1111 wrote: »

I suppose I train my mind in the sense that I never bail on a training session early. I make sure to finish every one, despite hurting like hell/not arsed.

My thinking is that if you bail on a session, come race day, it'll be easier to take the foot off the gas or second guess yourself when push comes to shove. "I couldn't finish Wednesday's session, how the hell am I going to...etc"

Bailing on a session won't make a huge difference physically, but it plants a seed in your mind that when it gets tough, it's easier to quit. Now I certainly don't possess the HTFU kind of attitude but unless your risking injury, bailing on a session will affect your mental strength.

It works for me.

I have bailed on a 2 LSR but it was because I planned too much and was not in the same mindset starting. One I had a upset stomach after 2 miles but still did 14 and both was because I was wearing a skins top that was too tight. Only times I have ever done that except two other times where I got injured on the run. You do need to listen to your body also but focusing on the pain as a method of motivation is negative to say the 2 more miles or whatever but focusing on the feeling that you will feel when you enter the session into your training log etc is a positive feeling. The two are basically the same thing but a different slant on it. Just saying that positive goal is easier to achieve than a negative one from my experience. Regarding someone winning a race because he couldn't afford to replace some stuff for his kitchen otherwise. I bet that he focused on buying and unwrapping the new products rather than the negative feeling of not being able to afford it.

RacoonQueen

Well yeah, you always need to be able to tell the difference between making excuse and needing to suck it up and being sensible and holding/pulling back. It can be a thin line sometimes.

RubyK

Personally, I don't like to think too much about racing. I find if I start thinking too much, I start to feel overwhelmed about what's ahead. So for me it's more a case of getting to the startline, and keep going .

But I do find running a real head clearer. I know, even if I don't really want to head out the door, a mile or two down the road I'm the better for it. I really enjoyed the LSR's for last years DCM. Lots of wrongs were put right in those hours on the road on my ownsome.

D Chief

Interesting stuff, tunguska. I'd never heard of this Central Governor theory.

I found a couple of podcasts with interviews with Tim Noakes:

http://zebra.bookslive.co.za/blog/2011/10/07/podcast-advice-from-tim-noakes-how-to-hack-fatigue/

Interview starts about 26:30
http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com/2011/03/episode-138-tim-noakes-tells-you-how-you-can-use-the-central-governor-to-tap-into-your-muscles-hidden-potential/

Interview starts about 32:45

Well worth listening to. I also liked his ideas on weight loss (basically, carbs cause the release of insulin which causes the body to store fat, so to lose fat, eat less carbs) and the reason some athletes run faster than others is because they have stronger muscles and/or use more of their muscle capacity than others.

I might read his book. Seems a bit of a tome though, 900 pages of very scientific stuff. Is it hard going or interesting and easy enough?

tunguska

D Chief wrote: »

Interesting stuff, tunguska. I'd never heard of this Central Governor theory.

I found a couple of podcasts with interviews with Tim Noakes:

http://zebra.bookslive.co.za/blog/2011/10/07/podcast-advice-from-tim-noakes-how-to-hack-fatigue/

Interview starts about 26:30
http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com/2011/03/episode-138-tim-noakes-tells-you-how-you-can-use-the-central-governor-to-tap-into-your-muscles-hidden-potential/

Interview starts about 32:45

Well worth listening to. I also liked his ideas on weight loss (basically, carbs cause the release of insulin which causes the body to store fat, so to lose fat, eat less carbs) and the reason some athletes run faster than others is because they have stronger muscles and/or use more of their muscle capacity than others.

I might read his book. Seems a bit of a tome though, 900 pages of very scientific stuff. Is it hard going or interesting and easy enough?

I'm not finished it yet but I've found it to be an interesting read. There are some heavy technical sections but theres enough good stuff to keep you hooked.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Does anyone have a link to Noakes paper on "Central Governor"?