Should DB bring back bus conductors?

n97 mini

Cost aside, a lot to be said for conductors:

- Less dwell time at stops, resulting in a faster service
- Customers can board and disembark quicker, providing an improved customer experience
- Less anti social behaviour on buses, again improving customer experience

What would rolling out a fleet of conductors add to the fare price?

CIE

Easy now; next thing you know, you'll have the consultants recommending that DB be converted to POP. Then things will get yet messier.

I remember the days of conductors well. The buses were a great deal faster, especially when it came to dwell times. If you had a tough conductor, he also quietened down the rowdy ones in split seconds. Although I do have to wonder why they didn't use both doors for entrance and exit at all stops on the dual-door buses while they still had conductors; the only time you could get to use the centre door was at the city centre terminus' set-down locations, for exit alone. (Then again, I'm old enough to remember the R-class, RA-class and R900-class of buses, and miss them quite a bit.)

cson

[a] No.

Probably a lot seeing as you'd have to hire a huge amount of people at a time when DB are letting people go.

Totally inefficient and costly idea I'm afraid OP.

DB should have kept the double doors on all buses for boarding efficencies, introduced and Oyster type card and standard fare of €3 along with proper revenue protection officers a lá Luas. But I guess that's a debate for another day.

CIE

Revenue protection officers = just as much money spent as on conductors, especially if you want to maximise fare recovery. Depending on how rowdy the passengers are, additional training to restrain passengers that engage in so-called "antisocial behaviour" means even more money out of the Exchequer.

thebman

Stop taking coins on the bus unless ticket machine is broken at stop, install ticket machines at stops with CCTV.

Vast majority of people would pre-purchase properly and use the ticket machine and if the machine is broken, you still have coin option as backup.

Losty Dublin

While it will reduce down time at stops, bus conductors need space to walk around on board which means less people standing on board which means less capacity on routes and slightly less revenue. At a stroke, it means a huge increase in staffing numbers as all buses will require a second man on board; can you see DB doing that given the current economy drive?

dunnariogh

dont forget the old"45 go ahead" scam conductors were doing.

CIE

thebman wrote: »

Stop taking coins on the bus unless ticket machine is broken at stop, install ticket machines at stops with CCTV.

Vast majority of people would pre-purchase properly and use the ticket machine and if the machine is broken, you still have coin option as backup.

Someone likes the surveillance state. And ticket machines are enough of an infrastructure cost as it is.

losty dublin wrote: »

While it will reduce down time at stops, bus conductors need space to walk around on board which means less people standing on board which means less capacity on routes and slightly less revenue. At a stroke, it means a huge increase in staffing numbers as all buses will require a second man on board; can you see DB doing that given the current economy drive?

That was helped in the past by adding buses when they filled up at termini or intermediate city-centre points (there was a reason for the old "Bus Full" sign), and the minimum-fare system. If it increases reliability, besides, it'll be a plus that does attract car drivers to the bus system. (Then again, we can all wait to see if a "congestion charge" abomination reaches Dublin as well...)

billyhead

CIE wrote: »

Someone likes the surveillance state. And ticket machines are enough of an infrastructure cost as it is.That was helped in the past by adding buses when they filled up at termini or intermediate city-centre points (there was a reason for the old "Bus Full" sign), and the minimum-fare system. If it increases reliability, besides, it'll be a plus that does attract car drivers to the bus system. (Then again, we can all wait to see if a "congestion charge" abomination reaches Dublin as well...)

Do they not still operate on buses. I don't use the bus regularly myself but was wondering then who checks if a customer has a valid ticket for the journey, and what about the machine swipe cards. Some users of the bus may be using a student pass rather then the normal adult ticket etc

the groutch

dunnariogh wrote: »

dont forget the old"45 go ahead" scam conductors were doing.

you'll have to clue us in on that one

CIE

billyhead wrote: »

Do they not still operate on buses. I don't use the bus regularly myself but was wondering then who checks if a customer has a valid ticket for the journey, and what about the machine swipe cards. Some users of the bus may be using a student pass rather then the normal adult ticket etc

Sounds like you're talking about inspectors. Back in those days, you had both conductors and inspectors; the latter would board buses at random intervals/locations and punch tickets that conductors issued.

dunnariogh

the groutch wrote: »

you'll have to clue us in on that one

Back in the day of conductors,fiddling was rife among conductors,if the fare was say 65p,you would say 45 go ahead,and hed take the cash and not issue a ticket in the hope an inspector wouldnt get on.

CIE

dunnariogh wrote: »

Back in the day of conductors, fiddling was rife among conductors, if the fare was say 65p, you would say 45 go ahead, and he'd take the cash and not issue a ticket in the hope an inspector wouldn't get on

Doesn't sound like too smart of a scam. If they had gone with flat fares back in those days, skimming couldn't be too easily done for sure.

spareman

Ever since I became a bus driver with Dublin Bus, I've always said that getting rid of conductors was a mistake in terms of the rampant anti social behaviour and fare evaison I've witnessed from the cab, On some route's I've worked I believe a conductor would more than pay for himself with regard to fare evasion, Dwell times at stops is not so much an issue I think, over a complete journey you might only save 4/5 mins.

stop

I'd prefer to see a proper transport police.

Run_to_da_hills

Conductors are also useful for counting skulls.

bk

n97 mini wrote: »

Cost aside, a lot to be said for conductors:

- Less dwell time at stops, resulting in a faster service
- Customers can board and disembark quicker, providing an improved customer experience

A flat fare with smart card will give you the same at much less cost.

n97 mini wrote: »

- Less anti social behaviour on buses, again improving customer experience

Maybe, but then in these days of health and safety mania, they would end up demanding stab proof vests and be under strict instructions not to tackle anti social behavior.

stop wrote: »

I'd prefer to see a proper transport police.

Agreed this is the real solution to anti social behaviour.

mikemac

I used to get the 78A
I would consider getting an annual pass again if Dublin Bus got in STT, the lads that Irish Rail and the Luas use

You don't even need them that long
The scum are not up before noon

Some security guards and you'd attract people back who pay several hundred for that annual ticket
It would pay for itself

Del2005

mikemac wrote: »

I used to get the 78A
I would consider getting an annual pass again if Dublin Bus got in STT, the lads that Irish Rail and the Luas use

You don't even need them that long
The scum are not up before noon

Some security guards and you'd attract people back who pay several hundred for that annual ticket
It would pay for itself

STT can do nothing as they are civilians, the Luas Red line hasn't improved since they came along.

We need transport police to remove or arrest trouble makers.

CIE

stop wrote: »

I'd prefer to see a proper transport police

That's more money from the exchequer spent on personnel. Coulda spent it on conductors. Also sounds like another call for increasing the surveillance state...makes one want to drive.

Cookie_Monster

CIE wrote: »

That's more money from the exchequer spent on personnel.

not necessarily, turn the traffic corps into transport police and have them do something useful rather than sit on motorways collecting speeding fines

galwaycyclist

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

not necessarily, turn the traffic corps into transport police and have them do something useful rather than sit on motorways collecting speeding fines

The thought occurs that one of main reported forms of anti social behaviour associated with DB is aggressive behaviour by the drivers towards cyclists in bus lanes. If we had transport police on the buses would this help stop that?

stop

CIE wrote: »

stop wrote: »

I'd prefer to see a proper transport police

That's more money from the exchequer spent on personnel. Coulda spent it on conductors. Also sounds like another call for increasing the surveillance state...makes one want to drive.

No it's a call for a proper unit of Gardai that are mandated to deal with public transport with the power of arrest who will not have the fear of H&S behind them as conductors would.

CIE

stop wrote: »

No it's a call for a proper unit of Gardai that are mandated to deal with public transport with the power of arrest who will not have the fear of H&S behind them as conductors would

How often are you claiming the "power of arrest" needs to be invoked on the buses? Still sounds very police-state-like. Thanks, but I'll drive.

n97 mini

I would agree, and I think it's a crazy situation that we don't have transport police. But then again we've a history of thinking we know better than everyone else.

But I still think we need conductors again.

stop

CIE wrote: »

stop wrote: »

No it's a call for a proper unit of Gardai that are mandated to deal with public transport with the power of arrest who will not have the fear of H&S behind them as conductors would

How often are you claiming the "power of arrest" needs to be invoked on the buses? Still sounds very police-state-like. Thanks, but I'll drive.

No problem, the traffic corp anpr vehicles an cameras will find it easier to track you on the roads if you fear the police state that much.

On topic I have witnessed several incidents over the years that would warrant a proper transport police, from drunks, junkies, assaults, vandalism, not to mention we might finally see enforcement of the smoking ban.

Del2005

galwaycyclist wrote: »

The thought occurs that one of main reported forms of anti social behaviour associated with DB is aggressive behaviour by the drivers towards cyclists in bus lanes. If we had transport police on the buses would this help stop that?

That's the Gardaí's job already, but we are talking about anti social behaviour on public transport, which is the Gardaí's job also but far from their priority.

CIE wrote: »

How often are you claiming the "power of arrest" needs to be invoked on the buses? Still sounds very police-state-like.

Well if some scumbag is chasing the dragon and trying to blow it into the cab of the driver I'd say that's an arrestable offence and that's only some of the problems on the Red Line. I'm sure our bus driving posters could tell other better stories.

CIE wrote: »

Thanks, but I'll drive.

That's part of the problem, scum have taken over some of our public transport making people want to drive and a large part of our population can't or don't want to drive all the time.

A proper transport police would improve our public transport and make it a viable option for more people.