Passing correctly

rich.d.berry

I have done a bit of searching, because I hate starting a new thread on a topic that's already been done to death. Besides this thread that first got me wondering whether I was doing it right, I found a number of brief opinions as to how and where to pass other vehicles, but could find nothing conclusive. So here goes.

I have seen some mentions of the dangers of undertaking, and the illegality thereof, but as already confessed, I regularly undertake stationary or slow moving cars, buses and lorries, especially where there is enough room.

I have done so, for a number of reasons:

1. I've always done so as I thought that it was allowed. I'm still not sure.
2. Practically everybody does it. I've learned by example.
3. The positioning of cycle lanes would indicate that the left is where bicycles are expected to remain.
4. I feel safer because I am not in danger of being punted head-on into oncoming traffic.
5. I get given less grief from motorists when I do so. On the odd occasion when I do pass on the right I find that I often get snide and sarcastic comments or abuse hurled at me for being in "the wrong place".

So, here are my questions:

1. If I ride next to the curb and pass slow moving or stationary vehicles on the left, am I breaking the law?
   
   Assuming the answer to the first question is yes:
   
2. If someone does something stupid, such as opening a door on me or turning across my path, do I risk being held liable (and therefore losing out on any compensation claim) for perfoming an illegal undertake?
3. How do I handle it where my speed is more or less matched by the speed of the vehicles passing me? Once passed, am I expected to hold position and not re-pass on the left if the traffic slows?
4. I'm assuming that this discussion only applies to roads that do not have cycle lanes, or would it be illegal to pass on the left even when using a cycle lane.

Alanstrainor

rich.d.berry wrote: »

[*]If someone does something stupid, such as opening a door on me..., do I risk being held liable (and therefore losing out on any compensation claim) for perfoming an illegal undertake?
[/LIST]

Undertaking is legal in slow moving traffic.

I have claimed, and won in a situation exactly as described above.

rollingscone

From a civil liability point of view it usually comes down to who had the greater burden of responsibility for their manouvre.

In the case of cycle lanes I'd tend to argue that they constitute their own right of way.

Even without a cycle lane, a court would be very unlikely to find that a driver couldnt reasonably expect to have cyclists traveling to his left, and in any case if he's opening his doors or moving off his line of travel, he'd still be expected to ensure it was safe to do so.

Look at it this way. If your car is illegally parked, it doesn't bestow the right on anyone else to crash into it.

galwaycyclist

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Undertaking is legal in slow moving traffic.

I have claimed, and won in a situation exactly as described above.

Do you have the case details on that?

In 2008 Noel Dempsey stated that he hoped to make legal the common practice of cyclists overtaking slow moving traffic on the inside.

This suggests that as Minister for Transport he was being advised that it is not currently legal.

galwaycyclist

Ok - I am not a lawyer but - the main source of law on this is the Traffic and Parking regulations

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0182.html

Outside of the regulations the Roads Act expresses a duty to avoid injury and damage to property (including as I recall injury to yourself or your own property).

For most purposes the regulations make no distinction between cars and bicycles so cyclist = driver = cyclist

Overtaking regulations
Article 10.
(1) A driver shall not overtake, or attempt to overtake, if to do so would endanger, or cause inconvenience to, any other person.

(2) A driver shall not overtake, or attempt to overtake, unless the roadway ahead of the driver—

( a ) is free from approaching traffic, pedestrians and any obstruction, and

( b ) is sufficiently long and wide to permit the overtaking to be completed without danger or inconvenience to other traffic or pedestrians.

(3) A driver shall not overtake, or attempt to overtake, on a stretch of roadway on which traffic sign number RUS 014 [no overtaking] has been provided.

(4) Subject to the provisions of sub-article (5), a driver shall overtake on the right and shall not move in towards the left until it is safe to do so.

(5) A driver may only overtake on the left—

( a ) where the driver of the vehicle about to be overtaken has signalled an intention to turn to the right and the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after overtaking, to go straight ahead or to turn to the left,

( b ) where the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after overtaking, to turn left at the next road junction and has signalled this intention,

( c ) in slow moving traffic, when vehicles in the traffic lane on the driver's right are moving more slowly than the overtaking vehicle.

Sub-article 10.c is the controversial one, some cyclists interpret that as meaning they can pass on the left. Others are of the view that this only applies in a two-lane situation.

There is nothing in the regulations that could be interpreted as permitting you as a cyclist to overtake left-turning turning traffic on the left. This is where Irish traffic law differs from other countries. Irish drivers are not taught to check for, or yield to, cyclists in such situations.

We also need to distinguish safety from legality.

Just because it feels more protected to pass left does not mean it is necessarily safer. Likewise if you feel more exposed passing on the right it does not follow that you are at greater risk.

The key issue is what happens at junctions. In large cities a major cause of cyclist deaths is going under left-turning HGVs. NEVER try to pass inside a HGV or bus near a junction. If there is a cycle lane ignore it and stay behind the lorry preferably in a position where you can see the driver in his wing mirrors. (I have a list of cyclists killed in cycle tracks by HGVs) In traffic jams, never try to filter up inside a HGV if there is any possibility that it might move. In any case if you find yourself coming to a junction you should rejoin the traffic stream beforehand.

You are entitled to pass on the right provided you yield to oncoming traffic as you encounter it. You should feel no hesitation about making full use of the lane e.g. stay a good car doors width or more from the vehicles you are passing. This also makes you more obvious to everyone which is good.

If you are using a cycle lane be aware that they do increase your general risk of collisions at junctions.

If traffic is moving at cycling speed then the theory is that you should try to make yourself recognisably part of the traffic stream by adopting a more prominent road position. (Even if that means possibly slowing down a little). Again it means you reduce your risk of a junction type conflict if someone else changes direction. One issue with this theory is that some motorists will insist on trying to drive up beside, and obstruct, a cyclist who they can't actually overtake. Also this may not apply as directly to the wide streets of Dublin as it would in other cities.

The last rule means you should only be filtering on the left if the traffic is nearly stopped. You are at increased risk from doors etc so you need to cycle more slowly and cautiously as a result. If you filter on the left you are also at increased risk from pedestrians stepping out. If you want to go fast pass on the right.

rich.d.berry

Thanks GalwayCyclist. Your reply covered all my questions and more.

A lot of what you advise is what I do already, but I do tend to pass stationary traffic approaching junctions. Perhaps I need to take a bit more care. Because I use clipless pedals and cycling shoes I hate stopping because I've fallen a few times when putting a foot down, especially on a road with a severe camber. My shoes have very little traction on damp or loose surfaces.

On a side note, I am seriously considering using the MTB style SPD pedals and shoes when commuting because of the better traction that the SPD shoe soles offer.

There is another question I have. Would vehicles entering a roundabout be considered to be turning left?

Every day I go through 2 large roundabouts with long tailbacks and I always pass the stationary traffic on the left and enter the roundabout without stopping. I cannot recall any close shaves or incidents at these roundabouts, discounting a few impatient hoots when I've gone straight past the first exit with vehicles wanting to turn left into it. In all these cases I am the one being overtaken by the vehicles wanting to turn left and I position myself and use hand signals to clearly indicate that I'm not exiting the roundabout. I feel safe doing what I'm doing and am only questioning it on the basis of legality.

CramCycle

rollingscone wrote: »

Even without a cycle lane, a court would be very unlikely to find that a driver couldnt reasonably expect to have cyclists traveling to his left, and in any case if he's opening his doors or moving off his line of travel, he'd still be expected to ensure it was safe to do so.

A driver would have been expected to check their rear view mirrors before opening his door, the burden is on the driver AFAIK, even if his passengers open the door, it is still the drivers responsibility.

rich.d.berry wrote: »

There is another question I have. Would vehicles entering a roundabout be considered to be turning left?

At some point they will have too :P

Every day I go through 2 large roundabouts with long tailbacks and I always pass the stationary traffic on the left and enter the roundabout without stopping. I cannot recall any close shaves or incidents at these roundabouts, discounting a few impatient hoots when I've gone straight past the first exit with vehicles wanting to turn left into it. In all these cases I am the one being overtaken by the vehicles wanting to turn left and I position myself and use hand signals to clearly indicate that I'm not exiting the roundabout. I feel safe doing what I'm doing and am only questioning it on the basis of legality.

Another discussion on this here.

If your going straight through I'd recommend staying in the lane you would be if you were a car or at least only undertake this lane and not the lane that will be turning across you, all it takes is one motorist to jump the clutch on you and your all of a sudden your a human/bike/pancake hybrid.

rich.d.berry

Thanks Cram, the advice and linked discussion noted.

Here's my dilemma though. In one direction of my commute I enter the roundabout going up hill into the prevailing wind. Some days, when really windy as the last few have been, I'm hard pressed to do 15 km/h. Though this speed is faster than the traffic flow average as I approach the roundabout, when I'm on the roundabout I would be in everyone's way. I would feel very unsafe mixing it in the traffic flow at that speed. I therefore keep left, and have found that in general the traffic makes allowances for me as I cross the first exit.

On the return journey I have no problem matching and even exceeding the speed of the other vehicles in the roundabout.

However, I am still unsure whether passing the queue of vehicles on the left puts me in contravention of the rule about not passing left turning vehicles on the left.

CramCycle

Can you put in a google maps link as to which roundabouts you are referring too?

Thanks

seamus

rich.d.berry wrote: »

However, I am still unsure whether passing the queue of vehicles on the left puts me in contravention of the rule about not passing left turning vehicles on the left.

The law states that a vehicle must turn left when they enter a roundabout. This implies that any vehicle entering a roundabout is legally turning left and therefore yes it is illegal to overtake a left-turning vehicle on the left.

But again, there are potential exceptions. There are a number of roundabouts where the cycle lane continues on through the roundabout, dangerously placing the cyclist along the outer edge of the roundabout, even if they're taking a late exit.
Theoretically if the cycle lane is distinguished as a distinct traffic lane, then the onus is on the vehicle to ensure that the cycle lane is clear from traffic, before they cross it and therefore the cyclist is OK to continue through the roundabout on the left.

The problems arise because nowhere in law has it been clarified whether the cycle lane represents a legal traffic lane. If it does, then the cyclist always has right of way while occupying the lane; any traffic wishing to cross or enter the lane must yield t
If it's not, then it's just a funny-coloured part of the main traffic lane and cyclists have the same rights (and obligations) as any other traffic using the main lane.

Theoreticals aside, practically I always join the traffic queue before entering a roundabout no matter how slow they or I am moving.

rich.d.berry

CramCycle wrote: »

Can you put in a google maps link as to which roundabouts you are referring too?

Thanks

http://maps.google.ie/maps?hl=en&ll=53.162327,-6.822488&spn=0.008195,0.01929&hnear=12+Sarsfield+Dr,+Newbridge,+County+Kildare&t=m&z=16&vpsrc=6

Here they are. The up hill, into the wind route takes me from Kildare road, past the motorway on-ramp, over the bridge. This is where I keep left.

At the next roundabout I cross the motorway off-ramp and miss the second exit and take The Curragh exit. On this roundabout I join the traffic flow and don't keep left.

The other direction they present no navigation problems to me, but I am in the habit of passing vehicles on the left as I enter.

CramCycle

rich.d.berry wrote: »

http://maps.google.ie/maps?hl=en&ll=53.162327,-6.822488&spn=0.008195,0.01929&hnear=12+Sarsfield+Dr,+Newbridge,+County+Kildare&t=m&z=16&vpsrc=6

Here they are. The up hill, into the wind route takes me from Kildare road, past the motorway on-ramp, over the bridge. This is where I keep left.

It is a tough call, if you can't get in lane with traffic but indicate right until you pass the on ramp then you should be fine as your intentions are clear but the truth is you are crossing (I presume) a fairly busy junction and if you were to be hit, legally you would be in the wrong but then again, any car driver should have realised that as a cyclist you couldn't have been going onto the motorway, ergo you are going onto the next junction.

Google maps isn't as clear as I hoped though as there only looks like one lane going onto the roundabout (I thought it would have split before hand). You may not have a choice in how you do it. Personally I would get in line with traffic in this instance. If you insist on going on the left, make sure you are indicating right to make it clear you are not taking the off ramp, most cars will slow and let you merge across, which is how I imagine I would do it.

Can you say that your approach is the safest one for the situation might be a more valid question?

rich.d.berry

For the last two mornings I've been following the advice offered here and have been joining the traffic flow into the roundabout.

To my surprise I did not feel at all intimidated and the vehicle following me onto the roundabout acted as a buffer between me and the faster traffic already in the roundabout.

I think that I have been converted.