Dead Animals

slowburner

I get on well with my neighbour but he seems to have a problem lately with animals dying and his fields are covered in Ragwort. The problem is that he does nothing about the carcasses which causes an almighty and sickening stink and flies are everywhere and where used to be full of birdsong is now home to the horrible racket of only magpies and grey crows.
At the moment there is a half rotten carcass 50 yards from our house, and when the wind carries the smell you'd nearly puke.
I don't want to make an enemy of my neighbour but at the same time I don't want to live in a knacker's yard. Does he have a legal obligation do dispose of carcasses properly and within a certain time? And could the Ragwort be causing the fatalities?
What to do?

Tora Bora

slowburner wrote: »

I get on well with my neighbour but he seems to have a problem lately with animals dying and his fields are covered in Ragwort. The problem is that he does nothing about the carcasses which causes an almighty and sickening stink and flies are everywhere and where used to be full of birdsong is now home to the horrible racket of only magpies and grey crows.
At the moment there is a half rotten carcass 50 yards from our house, and when the wind carries the smell you'd nearly puke.
I don't want to make an enemy of my neighbour but at the same time I don't want to live in a knacker's yard. Does he have a legal obligation do dispose of carcasses properly and within a certain time? And could the Ragwort be causing the fatalities?
What to do?

How much room have you in the freezer?:D

EGAR

Ring the DVO, they will clarify. I think you need a permit from the DVO to bury on your own land and other than that you must dispose of your dead animals via the local collection agencies.

epfff

slowburner wrote: »

I get on well with my neighbour but he seems to have a problem lately with animals dying and his fields are covered in Ragwort. The problem is that he does nothing about the carcasses which causes an almighty and sickening stink and flies are everywhere and where used to be full of birdsong is now home to the horrible racket of only magpies and grey crows.
At the moment there is a half rotten carcass 50 yards from our house, and when the wind carries the smell you'd nearly puke.
I don't want to make an enemy of my neighbour but at the same time I don't want to live in a knacker's yard. Does he have a legal obligation do dispose of carcasses properly and within a certain time? And could the Ragwort be causing the fatalities?
What to do?

Try and chat him before you go legal route.
Not a happy day when you go out in field and their is a pile of money lieing dead.
I would worry about the farmer
Why is he not moving them and getting to the route of the problem

greysides

epfff wrote: »

I would worry about the farmer
Why is he not moving them and getting to the route of the problem

I would agree with that.

Live, growing ragwort is very unlikely to be eaten by animals, unless other grazing is scant, it's too bitter.

LostCovey

slowburner wrote: »

Does he have a legal obligation do dispose of carcasses properly and within a certain time?

Yes it is an offence (in a legal & neighbourly sense to leave fallen animals unburied. It also plays puck with traceability (because animals only "die" on the animal identity tracing system when they go to a factory or a knackery). Your neighbour is also putting his single farm payment at risk. I do not know what is the legal limit on how long you can leave an animal unburied - nobody should need to know that anyway, they need to go to the knackery ASAP.

slowburner wrote: »

And could the Ragwort be causing the fatalities?
What to do?

Yes, but it usually poisons animals via the silage, and it is a slow killer so they die in the summer and autumn

slowburner wrote: »

What to do?

Personally, I wouldn't mess around. I would give him an ultimatum to the end of the week, before you ring the DVO and his single farm payment is toast.

However IU would temper the hard line with a slight note of caution you have to know the full story. This isn't normal behavour, and you would need to be "in the loop" in your area to rule out medical/psychiatric/ other extenuating reasons for this type of behaviour. It's not normal, its not even common.

LC

pakalasa

epfff wrote: »

I would worry about the farmer
Why is he not moving them and getting to the route of the problem

Exactly, I would worry more about the mental health of the farmer.
Any cases I've seen in the media like this, there were usually cases of the farmer not being able to cope. Maybe start by talking to other neighbours first. Best of luck!

slowburner

I didn't mention that the farmer is not in the best of health, but not so bad that he can't deal with the carcasses. Sorry for not mentioning it, but to be honest, I think he doesn't deal with the carcasses, more out of laziness and ignorance than any underlying complaint. He tried to burn one carcass - half successfully.

LostCovey

slowburner wrote: »

I didn't mention that the farmer is not in the best of health, but not so bad that he can't deal with the carcasses. Sorry for not mentioning it, but to be honest, I think he doesn't deal with the carcasses, more out of laziness and ignorance than any underlying complaint. He tried to burn one carcass - half successfully.

Are these cattle or sheep?

LC

slowburner

Mostly sheep and a few horses.

redzerologhlen

slowburner wrote: »

Mostly sheep and a few horses.

The way you say it sounds like hes lost alot. Have a word with him about it before you go ringing the legal route or ringing the DVO, The last thing someone needs if they are in bad health is them crawling down his neck threatning to take away all his entitlements. Its not fair on you or the animals either but best to figure out the situation before taking any action because it makes things difficult when you dont get on with your neighbour. Is there much grass in the field they are in??

raindodger

Is this a regular occurance? if it is it is an animal welfare issue and something needs to be done about it
Had much the same happen to me someone alongside me had cattle die in the field and left to rot.I never did anything about it about six months later the department called to his sheds and he had about thirty dead .Often say to myself if i had done something would they have had to suffer.

slowburner

redzerologhlen wrote: »

The way you say it sounds like hes lost alot. Have a word with him about it before you go ringing the legal route or ringing the DVO, The last thing someone needs if they are in bad health is them crawling down his neck threatning to take away all his entitlements. Its not fair on you or the animals either but best to figure out the situation before taking any action because it makes things difficult when you dont get on with your neighbour. Is there much grass in the field they are in??

Fick all grass and I don't see him bringing in feed either. The last thing I want to do is get the man into trouble but I'd like to see this place back to the way it was.

slowburner

raindodger wrote: »

Is this a regular occurance? if it is it is an animal welfare issue and something needs to be done about it
Had much the same happen to me someone alongside me had cattle die in the field and left to rot.I never did anything about it about six months later the department called to his sheds and he had about thirty dead .Often say to myself if i had done something would they have had to suffer.

It's only become regular in the past couple of months. I rang him about one dead sheep and the missus answered - she sounded grateful for the info, all nice as pie and said she'd get him to call me back the next day - never heard a word.

raindodger

Hard one to call for you was the same for me did nothing look what happened.
I would keep a very close eye ,if nothing is changing move before it gets worse. You will only be doing him a favour if you save him stock.depending how you get on with him you can ask does he need help dosing or feeding and this may open a door for a chat

keep going

look this is a situation that cant go on.have you spoken about this to anyone because i think you will have to go to the dept.but if you have disscussed this with your neighbours it would make me slower to go on a limb on my own.the dept in general dont come down hard on people at first and heard of a case where they really helped out a fella but if there is no change they will throw the book at them

EGAR

slowburner wrote: »

It's only become regular in the past couple of months. I rang him about one dead sheep and the missus answered - she sounded grateful for the info, all nice as pie and said she'd get him to call me back the next day - never heard a word.

If he has a wife than he is not alone, so I would be a lot faster to call in the Department than I would with a farmer living on his own who is struggling to keep his head above water and/or has a mental health/drink problem etc.

slowburner

EGAR wrote: »

If he has a wife than he is not alone, so I would be a lot faster to call in the Department than I would with a farmer living on his own who is struggling to keep his head above water and/or has a mental health/drink problem etc.

No, he's not alone. He doesn't drink and his mind is sound but he is not too mobile on foot.
The thing is, I want to sort the problem out but I don't want to make an enemy of my next door neighbour either. If I was to call in the authorities he would know for sure that it was me - the lie of the land would mean that it could only have been me.

Do the authorities ever do random or routine inspections?
If I could tip them off in such a way as the farmer would think it was a routine inspection, that might save our good relationship. Last thing I want is the department arriving in saying "We've had a complaint about you". That could lead to hostility, and to be honest, I cannot afford that.

Who deals with this kind of problem officially, by the way?

EGAR

I have dealt with many cases involving horses, and always ended up calling in the DVO if the farmer was non-compliant. And yes, there are routine inspections, OH had a DVO guy out a few months ago who was doing the rounds locally. So you can ask them to do that.

slowburner

EGAR wrote: »

I have dealt with many cases involving horses, and always ended up calling in the DVO if the farmer was non-compliant. And yes, there are routine inspections, OH had a DVO guy out a few months ago who was doing the rounds locally. So you can ask them to do that.

Is DVO the district vet's office?

whelan1

have been talking to a friend this evening, some one sent an email to the dvo about her farm a few weeks ago, district vet is coming out tomorrow to have a look around and address the issues in the email, she says she has nothing to hide and was wondering under the freedom of information act can she find out who sent the email?

wallycool

Why not get a friend of yours to call and pretend that he is from the department and doing a inspection on the farm . Tell him to get rid of all the dead animals or there will me more steps taken .

Highland

Ring the Distirict Vet Office (DVO) - ask to speak to one of the Vets. Then explain your situation - ie that you are concerned for the animals but dont want to fall out with your neighbour. They will deal with the situation discretely. That is the decent thing to do for everyones sake including the animals.

slowburner

whelan1 wrote: »

have been talking to a friend this evening, some one sent an email to the dvo about her farm a few weeks ago, district vet is coming out tomorrow to have a look around and address the issues in the email, she says she has nothing to hide and was wondering under the freedom of information act can she find out who sent the email?

I suppose anyone can send any authority an email along those lines.
I guess there is no love lost between your friend and the person who sent the email ?

slowburner

Highland wrote: »

Ring the Distirict Vet Office (DVO) - ask to speak to one of the Vets. Then explain your situation - ie that you are concerned for the animals but dont want to fall out with your neighbour. They will deal with the situation discretely. That is the decent thing to do for everyones sake including the animals.

Thanks this seems like sound advice.
And thank you all for your concerns for the animals, the farmer and me.

EGAR

whelan1 wrote: »

have been talking to a friend this evening, some one sent an email to the dvo about her farm a few weeks ago, district vet is coming out tomorrow to have a look around and address the issues in the email, she says she has nothing to hide and was wondering under the freedom of information act can she find out who sent the email?

Usually they call unannounced if they had a tip off and do not call in advance, Whelan, I find that very strange. You can file under the FoI Act with any government agency which includes the DVO and she may get a copy of the email with lots of blackened out lines..

whelan1

they are calling at 10 am , so will see how she goes

LostCovey

I have recently been told that the IFA have a liaison with the Dept on these sort of cases in some counties, I am sure your local rep would know more about it. It means the first approach can come from a farmer rep saying "you'd need to sort this out" and giving the farmer support instead of an inspector being the first caller.

The inspector can always be deployed if it doesn't work.

Also, the Dept are very creative in fairness at finding a "reason" for a "random" inspection/follow up to an animal sold in a mart or whatever.

A lot of us have probably been inspected on foot of a report to the Dept and are still unaware of it.

rancher

LostCovey wrote: »

I have recently been told that the IFA have a liaison with the Dept on these sort of cases in some counties, I am sure your local rep would know more about it. It means the first approach can come from a farmer rep saying "you'd need to sort this out" and giving the farmer support instead of an inspector being the first caller.

The inspector can always be deployed if it doesn't work.

Also, the Dept are very creative in fairness at finding a "reason" for a "random" inspection/follow up to an animal sold in a mart or whatever.

A lot of us have probably been inspected on foot of a report to the Dept and are still unaware of it.

Definitely contact your local IFA office, they will ensure it's handled sympathetically, animal welfare should be a priority

EGAR

LostCovey wrote: »

I have recently been told that the IFA have a liaison with the Dept on these sort of cases in some counties, I am sure your local rep would know more about it. It means the first approach can come from a farmer rep saying "you'd need to sort this out" and giving the farmer support instead of an inspector being the first caller.

The inspector can always be deployed if it doesn't work.

Also, the Dept are very creative in fairness at finding a "reason" for a "random" inspection/follow up to an animal sold in a mart or whatever.

A lot of us have probably been inspected on foot of a report to the Dept and are still unaware of it.

I find the DVO inspectors I work with very compassionate and they have always tried to help instead of coming down hard on the farmer. It really depends on the severity of each case and the reaction of the farmer. Trust me, it's not pretty to come to a place and find animal remains everywhere and a farmer who couldn't care less, these cases are in the extreme minority but they do exist . And lately it's horses more than any other type of animal.

In a lot of cases the farmer is grateful for help and implements the advice given.

And it is also a H & S issue for neighbours, carcasses draw rats amongst other scavengers and rats can transmit Weil's Disease.

whelan1

slowburner wrote: »

I suppose anyone can send any authority an email along those lines.
I guess there is no love lost between your friend and the person who sent the email ?

department guy came out to her this morning, complaint was made over the weekend, by some one who had been at her place 6 weeks ago:eek: he spent 2 hours going around looking at every thing and said that since minister coveney had come in animal welfare is his number 1 priority ... he will be back to her in 2 weeks and wants an improvement by then

Tipp Man

whelan1 wrote: »

department guy came out to her this morning, complaint was made over the weekend, by some one who had been at her place 6 weeks ago:eek: he spent 2 hours going around looking at every thing and said that since minister coveney had come in animal welfare is his number 1 priority ... he will be back to her in 2 weeks and wants an improvement by then

What was the problem and what needs improving?

whelan1

its nearly all poultry , he kept going on about them having a dry lie, her point was that they sleep on perches, pigs where in muck, ducks and geese not housed properly... sheep and calves are ok... she did say that it has been raining for the last month

JohnBoy

whelan1 wrote: »

have been talking to a friend this evening, some one sent an email to the dvo about her farm a few weeks ago, district vet is coming out tomorrow to have a look around and address the issues in the email, she says she has nothing to hide and was wondering under the freedom of information act can she find out who sent the email?

I doubt it, as it's an email the data protection act comes into play too, and I think that will trump freedom of information. As someone has suggested they'd probably get a copy of the email but with any personal/contact info blacked out.


And to be honest I think rightly so.


If someone makes such a report to the authorities it's the authorities job to come out and check you out if they deem it. if they find something amiss then the report was valid, if they dont find something amiss then you just have to move on. I dont see why you should have any right to know who reported you. You might want to know, but why should you actually be told?

wallycool

I have an sneaking suspicion that your neighbor is elderly, I have seen and heard of occurances like this happening before IE dead animals everywhere and not disposed correctly, People that are to old and frail to work and run a farm properly.
Knew of one old lady (spinster) and all she was able to do was look over the gate once a week into a big field with over one hundred sheep in it- its hard to tell if a sheep has maggot from 200 yards, with bad eyesight and mind that is not as sharp as it used to be. She would have really been better off renting the land because her farm is so badly run that she would not be making much money from the sheep or land. But it is very difficult to tell old people these things, they would think you were trying to do them out of it somehow.
You have a hard choice to make my friend.
The IFA idea sounds like a good solution.

bob charles

JohnBoy wrote: »

I doubt it, as it's an email the data protection act comes into play too, and I think that will trump freedom of information. As someone has suggested they'd probably get a copy of the email but with any personal/contact info blacked out.


And to be honest I think rightly so.


If someone makes such a report to the authorities it's the authorities job to come out and check you out if they deem it. if they find something amiss then the report was valid, if they dont find something amiss then you just have to move on. I dont see why you should have any right to know who reported you. You might want to know, but why should you actually be told?

Thats okay up to a point but when authority keep responding to constant fictitious complainants is a fuppin joke. Then once authority land in your yard they will examine everything with a fine tooth comb and pick you up for something stupid so as to make their journey worthwhile. Some of the complainants I have put up with is borderline ridiculous

whelan1

my friend got a phone call late on saturday night from a private number from some one that was well jarred saying" i'm glad they came out, i hope they throw the book at you!"

whelan1

my friend waited around all day yesterday as dept guy told her he would be out thursday, he never came:mad: what would you do? she doesnt want him to turn up when she isnt there and for him to go around on his own, i think itis disgraceful that he never rang to say he wasnt coming

johngalway

whelan1 wrote: »

my friend got a phone call late on saturday night from a private number from some one that was well jarred saying" i'm glad they came out, i hope they throw the book at you!"

Yet another reason to never answer private numbers.

whelan1

she got a letter today, dated yesterday that he- dept guy- will be in touch in due course

greysides

johngalway wrote: »

Yet another reason to never answer private numbers.

Once upon a time all numbers were private.

johngalway

greysides wrote: »

Once upon a time all numbers were private.

True but I wasn't the one answering the phone then

slowburner

Things on this farm have gone from bad to worse.
The number of animals has doubled, if not more, and the grazing is worn out.
He feeds them the odd bale of hay from time to time, but probably not enough.

Today I contacted the IFA, who were very understanding.
If they can't help out, or if the owner is uncooperative, then they will treat it as an animal welfare issue, and proceed along those lines.

It's in the hands of the IFA now - hopefully, they will be able to sort it out for the good of all concerned.