Automatic Radiator Bleeding Valve

golfbgud

Anyone used these (Automatic Radiator Bleeding Valve)?
Are they worth fitting?
Do they work?
Are there reputable brands that should be used?
Are they all the same technology?
Seen them on purchase.ie and the ESB store.
Thanks.

Joey the lips

I would not use them but i am biased.

1. If your radiator needs to be blead often there is something wrong with your system. If you dont get it fixed you will have to replace that radiator.

2. How often do you need to bleed a radiator? x how many radiators in the house.


Waste of money and as leathal as an pressure control valve on the water inlet.

Weylin

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Airless Automatic De-Aerator for Radiators

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Airless Automatic De-Aerator for Radiators

Model: A2PK, A5PK


The de-aerator valve will automatically and continuously vent modern radiators(1/2” air vent). This means you’ll never have to manually vent or bleed a radiator again, thereby ensuring increased heating system efficiency. These are available as a 2 pack or 5 pack.


Features:

• Improves the efficiency of radiators
• Easily mounted on existing radiators( with ½ “ air vent)
• Removes ‘gurgling’ noise from radiators

Note: All prices are inclusive of VAT




Please Select A Size 2 Pack 5 Pack

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Normal delivery time of 2 to 4 working days

Price From €9.95

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i had same prob with en suite rad,i fitted auto air bleed valve on it, problem fixed for less than a tenner! that was 2 years ago, still working perfect.:)

knighted_1

Joey the lips wrote: »

.


Waste of money and as leathal as an pressure control valve on the water inlet.

expand on this theory joey ,why is a pressure control valve lethal on the inlet ?

aujopimur

Auto fills & auto vents can conceal problems on a heating system, mainly leaks & overheating.

knighted_1

knighted_1 wrote: »

expand on this theory joey ,why is a pressure control valve lethal on the inlet ?

Lethal to the boiler and the house holders pocket:)

knighted_1

if you read it again he said pressure control valves

i dont have a problem with pressure control valves ,once they have a lever valve of gate valve behing them and that is closed after filling .never left open .

edit
sorry my point was you cant just say something is lethal without giving the scenario that it is letal in .there are plenty ways thats prefectly fine b

DGOBS

No such thing as an 'auto filling valve' the fact it's called that in the industry is the root of the problem, its a pressure reducing valve, and should only be used on a ch system in conjunction with a filling loop downstream of it (that is removed an capped when not in use

Joey the lips

knighted_1 wrote: »

expand on this theory joey ,why is a pressure control valve lethal on the inlet ?

Some one beat me to it...

aujopimur wrote: »

Auto fills & auto vents can conceal problems on a heating system, mainly leaks & overheating.

Thank you for saving me the explination....

gary71 wrote: »

Lethal to the boiler and the house holders pocket:)

and touche

knighted_1 wrote: »

if you read it again he said pressure control valves

i dont have a problem with pressure control valves ,once they have a lever valve of gate valve behing them and that is closed after filling .never left open .

edit
sorry my point was you cant just say something is lethal without giving the scenario that it is letal in .there are plenty ways thats prefectly fine b

I read it. It can conceal the same problems. If a person does not realise they are bleading rads a lot then its masking a problem. I dont trust it. After that its up to you. I am not getting into a war of words.

DGOBS wrote: »

No such thing as an 'auto filling valve' the fact it's called that in the industry is the root of the problem, its a pressure reducing valve, and should only be used on a ch system in conjunction with a filling loop downstream of it (that is removed an capped when not in use

I agree. But then again i think they should be outlawed so they are not used at all.

DGOBS

You need them for unvented cylinders

But as with anything in the country, you can ban or outlaw anything, but it doesn't stop them as nothing is policed

knighted_1

Joey the lips wrote: »

Some one beat me to it...



Thank you for saving me the explination....

and touche



I read it. It can conceal the same problems. If a person does not realise they are bleading rads a lot then its masking a problem. I dont trust it. After that its up to you. I am not getting into a war of words.



I agree. But then again i think they should be outlawed so they are not used at all.

joey you are full crap its unreal - you take what you hear from others and reword it to suit yourself -have you ever used one or installed one or a system for that matter ?

used correctly they serve a purpose ,what you hear people talking about is leaving them connected by dodgy installers to fill when there is a leak or drop in pressure ,get your info right
im not going to inform you the correct operation of these you will no doubt get it arse ways when you dish out advice

Joey the lips

knighted_1 wrote: »

you take what you hear from others and reword it to suit yourself

That post amounts to a personal attack but i shall leave it to other moderators to judge as i am going to deal with your problems..I dont think we reading the same script somehow!

What have i said thats untrue?

If a radiator is automatically vented problems are masked This is obvious to most. Granted only cowboys will do this but if you cannot see the problem due to the radiator being constantly vented the only notification you will get is when your boiler sits down... again this seems like common sense to me.

Then there is the price... I dont know about anyone else but i cannot remember the last time i vented my rads. This is because my system is tuned so to speak. So if anyone wants to spend 9.95 on a pack of 2 amounting to 40 euros worth for a white elephant then fire away. Thats all i said.

Tell me exactly what i said is wrong?

knighted_1

[QUOTE=Joey the lips;


Waste of money and as leathal as an pressure control valve on the water inlet.[/QUOTE]

this is what you said without expanding on it then called it an autofiller , you multi quote other posters to suit yourself

take it as a personal attack if you wish , let the proper mods decide , I've always had a problem with the idiotic advise you dish out in nearly every forum on boards , you must hold the record on giving advise on the widest range of subject matter .

Micky Dolenz

Knighted_1 banned

If a poster has a problem with a post by whoever. Please use the report post function.

Personal attacks will not be tolerated.

heinbloed

These automatic radiator bleeding valves are common in modern heating systems, many modern TRVs have them build in.
The price asked by the ESB (see posting of Weylin) of €9.95 is aimed at idiots.
Before this thread is closed again: the greek word " idiotes " means " common men " . By common men the Greeks meant those who are directed by others like women, children, labourer. Those who do not decide themself.

Those who know what these automatic radiator bleeding valves actually do and how they are used don't say that these things are " letal " and certainly won't compare them with " pressure control valves " or claim that these automatic radiator bleeding valves are a " waste of money ".

These valves come with CE conformity declaration and safe on money. Keep the heating system efficient without asking for a plumber.

The term " bleeding " should not be used for these valves actually. Since they don't seep any liquid, unlike the manual bleeding method. No mess, no stains.

Regular " bleeding " is a standard procedure with all wet central heating systems. There would be certainly something wrong with such a heating system if it would not require regular de-gassing.

@ Joey the lips: please correct your post and ask Knighted1 to join back to this forum.
And let us know who decided for you that these things are a

Waste of money and as leathal as an pressure control valve on the water inlet.

......we are all here to learn

Micky Dolenz

heinbloed wrote: »

Regular " bleeding " is a standard procedure with all wet central heating systems. There would be certainly something wrong with such a heating system if it would not require regular de-gassing.

That's incorrect. If you regularly have to bleed your system, you have a problem.

Once or twice a year is ok, one or twice a week/month is not.

heinbloed

To ventilate the air out of a radiator is a must as soon as some air gets into it. Not when the diary looks suitable!
Therefore an automatic de-gasing is state of the art. It costs less than a cent per action (life time for an automatic bleeding valve as long as the radiator itself). Compared to a plumber's wage and the waste of fuel if waiting for him, until realising it needs to be done - that's a no-brainer by all means.

De-gasing ten radiators including making up for the mess costs how much, once or twice a year, over the life time of a CH system ?

Are some professionals here to give us their wages for this job? For ten or twenty years? Bleeding ten radiators including VAT once or twice per year? Anyone here to beat the price?

Remember: the price given by the ESB for the automatic bleeding valves (see above) is an idiots price. Those who want to safe money pay less than half. Lidl and Aldi had them, two for € 5.- or something like that.
Most plumbing shops do them for a similar price if purchased by the dozen.

How well would they work on a dirty system?

heinbloed

Ask a fortune teller.
But you could try that yourself - if the investment isn't too much.

There are automatic sludge valves available as well. Self cleaning, since a few decades these are available in the plumbing shop.
No need for flushing the CH system. No need for the plumber that is.

Micky Dolenz

heinbloed wrote: »

To ventilate the air out of a radiator is a must as soon as some air gets into it. Not when the diary looks suitable!
Therefore an automatic de-gasing is state of the art. It costs less than a cent per action (life time for an automatic bleeding valve as long as the radiator itself). Compared to a plumber's wage and the waste of fuel if waiting for him, until realising it needs to be done - that's a no-brainer by all means.

De-gasing ten radiators including making up for the mess costs how much, once or twice a year, over the life time of a CH system ?

Are some professionals here to give us their wages for this job? For ten or twenty years? Bleeding ten radiators including VAT once or twice per year? Anyone here to beat the price?

Remember: the price given by the ESB for the automatic bleeding valves (see above) is an idiots price. Those who want to safe money pay less than half. Lidl and Aldi had them, two for € 5.- or something like that.
Most plumbing shops do them for a similar price if purchased by the dozen.

You are moving the goal posts now.

You do know radiator vent keys are easily obtained and nearly every household in the country has at least a few. Most if not all people do it themselves.

A professional plumber does not calculate what they earn from bleeding rads as a singular call out job, as the occurrence is so rare.

In fact a much more common occurrence is being called out after a householder has bleed a system, I.E loss of pressure so pressure sensitive boiler will not fire. Then it's a case of showing house holder how to operate filling loop.

heinbloed

heinbloed wrote: »

Ask a fortune teller.
But you could try that yourself - if the investment isn't too much.

No need, I'll answer my own question without sounding like a plonker:eek:, that's the Saxon plonker :cool:meaning "he who talks a lot, but says nothing".


One of the first signs of a contaminated system is water passing intermittently or unchecked via a auto air release, so it's possible for these to leak causing a problem bigger than the original problem and a problem that should be sorted on a service without any drama.

golfbgud

Hi All.

Thanks for taking the time to post.

I must admit, I wasn't expecting this many replies but all these things are learning issues for me!

(1) What is a "wet system"?

(2) I agree in principle that the rads should not need to be bled if the system is designed and installed properly. I'm not a plumber, just basing this on other people's experience of not needing to bleed air out of their rads on a regular basis (or ever having to perform this task).

(3) I would have thought that all these ECO friendly companies selling these valves that I read about, were reputable especially the ESB, but perhaps I am a tad naive?

(4) In my case, I have 12 radiators in a 2 story semi detached house. House was built in the 70's (I believe). The heating system was originally a back boiler system but I have added an oil burner in recent years. Old rads were replaced with newer one's and we also added a few new one's. I would have to bleed some of the rads every few months as the top of them would be cold to touch. I don't know why this is and thought these new valve "jobbies" would save me the task of bleeding the rads and ultimately be more efficient.

(5) The leaks, if there is one is not at the rads or above the floor that I can see.

(6) If I summoned the services of a good plumber, how would he detect if there was a leak and how would he determine where it is?

(7) If the system is not leaking, what else would cause the air to appear in the rads?

As I said before, I'm not a plumber or central heating expert. I like to understand how to fix issues and generally would have a go myself unless the task is too big for me.

My intention was never to create a post which brings on negativity - hopefully we can move beyond any personal criticism/attacks and get back to a technical debate!

Thanks again - Gerry.

heinbloed

The OP asks:

(1) What is a "wet system"?

A (central heating) system which contains water, usually circulated.

Which leads to the question

(7) If the system is not leaking, what else would cause the air to appear in the rads?

The air gets into the water by diffusion. Diffusing through steel, copper, sealants, the membrane in the expansion barrel.
There is no leak necessary to get air into a wet system. Although the Irish standard system has build-in leaks to keep the plumbers happy. These leaks are the open, vented systems. Troublesome, expensive, inefficient. But plenty of jobs guaranteed.

heinbloed

Mickey Dolenz wrote:

A professional plumber does not calculate what they earn from bleeding rads as a singular call out job, as the occurrence is so rare.

I know a few OAPs who can't or won't afford a plumber until the system fails altogether. Any chance these non-calculating plumbers would come around for free?


And further:

You do know radiator vent keys are easily obtained and nearly every household in the country has at least a few. Most if not all people do it themselves.

How many radiators are dumped because the bleeding valve doesn't open anymore? Check this forum. Costs for this action? No one will calculate this,

as the occurrence is so rare

......

There are wages,charged by the hour, Mickey Dolenz.

And further:

In fact a much more common occurrence is being called out after a householder has bleed a system, I.E loss of pressure so pressure sensitive boiler will not fire. Then it's a case of showing house holder how to operate filling loop.

Exactly. A literacy course on how to read a manual is a great job for the primary school teacher. It safes the plumbing course .....(smiley).

aujopimur

If you have air in a heating system it's being drawn into it for some reason, the most common causes are a leak, or pitching where water in an open system is being pushed up into the exp. tank and is circulating and drawing air in by this method.

Micky Dolenz

OP, you most probably have an open vented system, small tank in attic feeding boiler and rads.

If you have air in your system if may not mean you have a leak. Air may enter a few ways. Poorly positioned or overly strong pump could be pumping water into fed tank in attic, this will lead to air entering water as it falls from expansion pipe to tank. It is possible for a pump to do the opposite also, pulling air into system via expansion pipe.

A good idea is to tie up ballcock in small tank so it can't refill. Leave it for a week and see if you lose water. A drop of a couple of inches is ok as water will evaporate. You can use your heating while on test.

Im not opposed to auto rad vents, I just don't see the need for them.

OP as a guess I would say your system is leaking due to the age of the heating system and the regular bleeding, I would also guess that your system water is dirty because of the same, so to fit these gadgets would save you from bleeding but you risk water passing the gadget.

I find that most heating systems have pipework buried in concrete and I find it's the pipework that's buried that's tends to be the cause of the heartache, fixing leaks like this can be a pain in the back side, have a chat with your OFTEC engineer when you next have the boiler serviced;)

Micky Dolenz

heinbloed wrote: »

Mickey Dolenz wrote:

I know a few OAPs who can't or won't afford a plumber until the system fails altogether. Any chance these non-calculating plumbers would come around for free?


And further:
How many radiators are dumped because the bleeding valve doesn't open anymore? Check this forum. Costs for this action? No one will calculate this, ......
There are wages,charged by the hour, Mickey Dolenz.
And further:
Exactly. A literacy course on how to read a manual is a great job for the primary school teacher. It safes the plumbing course .....(smiley).

I really have no idea what you are going on about a lot of the time. But I do know you like a arguement.

Take this as fair warning. Continue to troll and you will be banned.

There you go OP, 3 definitive answers:D what other problems do you want fixing:)

JohnnieK

I love threads like this :D:D:D

monkeycork

JohnnieK wrote: »

I love threads like this :D:D:D

its hilarious if you took all the advice in this tread you would be some confused puppy!!!!