Atheism to agnosticism to um gnosticism?

talkinyite

Right so I was never baptized and raised a atheist until about 17 when I realised that atheists were still theists and just as annoying and pushy as other theists always telling people how it is and what to think when i had absolutely no interest in any of it at all and didn't think that humans were capable of understanding everything.

As an agnostic I had a interest in culture, and cultural belief systems so I read a ****e load of stuff from different religions that atheists generally wouldn't have any interest in, and religious people probably wouldn't because it would probably go against there religions. I just thought "maybe, and interesting" to all that stuff.

But then I broke up with my girlfriend of a few years and fell into mad depression and swore to myself that I wasn't trusting or letting another woman suck the life out of me (no pun) again and went celibate. It's been a fair while since that's happened and now I seem to be reassessing everything, the world seems very fecking depressing and pointless without love (or weed), it seems almost impossible to walk the line and do what the nanny state or some ****ebag corporation says when you've got no one who makes it feel worthwhile, this depressing craics got me actually questioning things seriously for the first time and sort of thinking there's something to a few of these religious things that I've read over the years and since it's such a mix up of different belief systems from the agnostic reading does that sort of make me a gnostic now or wha? :pac:

Apologies if this is a pile of mad jargon or in the wrong forum or whatever i'm shattered and can't be holed reading over it.

MrStuffins

talkinyite wrote: »

Right so I was never baptized and raised a atheist until about 17 when I realised that atheists were still theists ........

I stopped reading here

Rev Hellfire

MrStuffins wrote: »

I stopped reading here

Which automatically negates any opinion you may have.

MrStuffins

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Which automatically negates any opinion you may have.

I didn't give an opinion.

Try to keep up!

Mark200

You make so many ridiculous generalisations that its hard to take you seriously. But the jist of your post seems to be: long time without sex or weed made you lonely and now you know there is a god. 'Gnosticism' means you have knowledge of something. I think you might be a 'theist', which you might not like since you have such a problem with labels

Roger Hassenforder

go with what your comfortable OP, whether its nonsense or not, its your gig and your life to so with as you will.

you should probably talk to someone though, your GP might be a good place to start rather than here.

off you pop now with your ramblings, and maybe the next time you might "bother your hole" to read your post before posting.

Rev Hellfire

MrStuffins wrote: »

I didn't give an opinion.

Try to keep up!

Ohh I think we all know you sought to imply with your post that their position was nonsensical. But hey if you don't feel like standing by that so be it.

smokingman

I wonder why a lot of conspiracy theorists are religious...you'd think that would be a contradiction but apparantly not.

Maybe it's where the "it's only a theory" came from.

Maybe it's just the fact that conspiacy theorists are people with something missing in their lives just like those that turn to religion to fill a hole.

I wonder if a poll was taken of religious peoples favourite sci-fi shows, would X-files be top? I'd imagine X-Men would be bottom of the pile with all that, y'know, mutation and god like powers and whatnot. :pac:

MagicMarker

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Ohh I think we all know you sought to imply with your post that their position was nonsensical. But hey if you don't feel like standing by that so be it.

Well the OP starts off by making a number of sweeping generalisations about pretty much everyone but himself. Not a good start is it really?

OP, why not tell us what you're now questioning and we can take it from there?

Newaglish

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Ohh I think we all know you sought to imply with your post that their position was nonsensical. But hey if you don't feel like standing by that so be it.

Are you implying that it's not nonsensical? Because it is a bit.

Rev Hellfire

MagicMarker wrote: »

Well the OP starts off by making a number of sweeping generalisations about pretty much everyone but himself. Not a good start is it really?

I wouldn't disagree with such an assessment.

Sarky

The world *is* pretty depressing without meaning. A lot of depression is a result of the brain producing lower levels of mind altering happy drugs than usual. Think about that. We all need to be on happy drugs by default just to function like normal human beings.

It's up to you to find something to make existence less pointless. Some people cling to the appealing belief that it somehow gets better after you die. Some people just accept they'll be dead in 80 odd years and set about having fun and finding things out. Some people do nothing and live and die miserable.

So OP, what do you intend to do to give meaning to your life?

seamus

Sarky wrote: »

The world *is* pretty depressing without meaning.

It's subjective.

The lack of meaning is only an issue if you initially assumed that having meaning is an end or a measure in itself. That is, if having meaning holds no value for you, then lack of meaning in the universe will have little impact on your mental state.
To make a very simplistic comparison - for a soccer supporter, the end goal might be the team winning the cup. When the team doesn't win the cup, the supporter feels to have lost something of value and will suffer mentally for it. For a non-supporter, the cup holds no value, so winning or losing will not affect them in any way.

The existential kicker is that if my existence makes a difference in the long-term, I will never know. So it's an utterly unmeasurable measure for the individual. Like worrying about your team winning the cup, but the cup final never takes place within your lifetime.

Of course the problem is that the vast, vast majority of us strive towards seeking out meaning, or otherwise creating a legacy for ourselves. To make it appear that we made a difference with our existence.
Maybe it's a social construct, maybe it's something to do with ego, maybe it's an essential component of evolution, or maybe it's a complex mixture of a whole pile of things.

Overcoming the depressing idea of one's life being meaningless isn't about learning to cope with it, it's about realising that "meaning" itself is nothing more than an abstract concept to which we ascribe arbitrary value. Or to be even more abstract, "Meaning" itself is meaninginless. Getting hung up on the meaninglessness of something meaningless is a nice mental exercise, but it will also tie you up in irresolvable knots.

My dog doesn't worry about making a difference. She just lives life on a day-to-day basis and does her best to be happy. Realising that "meaning" is not a universal constant and rather just an ideal in your head is very important.

atheists aren't theists
that's kind of the whole point of the word, with the a in front

anyway OP if you are feeling down and suffering from depression I suggest you talk to someone about it

18AD

All religions have some truth in them. Mix and match, they're all just tools for the mind. That doesn't make you a gnostic, a gnostic has directly grasped the essence of existence, which it clearly seems you haven't, regardless of whether it's possible or not.

Sarky

Good point, seamus, I should have thought of that. Typing from phone + hangover = not all bases covered.

MagicMarker

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

I wouldn't disagree with such an assessment.

So you agree with the OP that all ''atheists were still theists and just as annoying and pushy as other theists always telling people how it is and what to think'' or that atheists wouldn't have any interest ''in culture, and cultural belief systems''?

Well if you're happy with that assessment then congratulations, you win at generalising too.

Rev Hellfire

MagicMarker wrote: »

So you agree with the OP that all ''atheists were still theists and just as annoying and pushy as other theists always telling people how it is and what to think'' or that atheists wouldn't have any interest ''in culture, and cultural belief systems''?

Well if you're happy with that assessment then congratulations, you win at generalising too.

I was agreeing your assessment that "the OP starts off by making a number of sweeping generalisations about pretty much everyone but himself".
If your assessment was a sweeping generalisation, then yes I guess I'm guilty. Do we both get to share the prize ?

Roger Hassenforder

now now ladies...

MagicMarker

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

I was agreeing your assessment that "the OP starts off by making a number of sweeping generalisations about pretty much everyone but himself".
If your assessment was a sweeping generalisation, then yes I guess I'm guilty. Do we both get to share the prize ?

My apologies, I obviously thought your were referring to the OP's assessment.

Dr. Loon

After filtering out the nonsense in your post OP, you just sound depressed. I'm not sure buying into a delusion will help you with that, but it might. I'd sooner suggest you go speak to someone professional about it.

The only thing that really matters is that you're happy with yourself, whatever creed you decide to live by, but I personally think the truth - amongst other things - is the most rewarding path towards happiness. Celibacy.... no.

MrStuffins

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Ohh I think we all know you sought to imply with your post that their position was nonsensical. But hey if you don't feel like standing by that so be it.

Oh I stand by it alright. The point I was making is obvious.

You don't ave to listen to someone's whole spiel to know what's coming next. Like when my Taxi driver last night said "Now, i'm not racist but......." I know what was coming next!

recedite

OP, now that you have hit rock bottom, you are ripe for "being saved".
You can head over to one of the other forums, where plenty of people will be happy to latch onto you, and suck you into their fantasy world where a magical sky fairy comes down to solve all your problems for you.

Alternatively, take some personal responsibility and sort them out yourself.
For starters, here's where you went wrong;

fell into mad depression and swore to myself that I wasn't trusting or letting another woman suck the life out of me (no pun) again and went celibate.

The idea that celibacy is somehow "virtuous" came from twisted minds. Get out there and get another woman.

Galvasean

I'd agree with others who have suggested speaking to a professional,
I would also like to ad that I'm sure most of us have been through a bad breakup and went through the 'swearing off women forever' phase. Taking a break from women/relationships could be very beneficial to you, but declaring yourself celibate because you have been hurt by a woman strikes me as an overreaction.

Standman

Rabble!

ShooterSF

Get a hobby or 3. Get out of your own head and have fun. Meet new people. Don't swear off sex and don't think it has to lead to anything serious if you don't want it to. Oh and don't drink when you're depressed it only delays and intensifies the horrors (that's just from personal experience). Take up religion if it's helpful to you but chances are you'll just delay your depression as I don't think your lack of it is the cause of your problems. Do be careful though, you're vulnerable right now and like your ex it may suck the life out of you too!

strobe

talkinyite wrote: »

[....] again and went celibate. It's been a fair while since that's happened and now I seem to be reassessing everything, the world seems very fecking depressing and pointless without love (or weed),[...]

Jesus man, no wonder religion is starting to sound plausible. Get yourself an ounce of some nice white widow and go have sex with someone. Stat!

I'm putting out fires left, right and centre today. Doctor Phil ain't got shit on me.

JohnRiver

talkinyite wrote: »

Right so I was never baptized and raised a atheist until about 17 when I realised that atheists were still theists and just as annoying and pushy as other theists always telling people how it is and what to think when i had absolutely no interest in any of it at all and didn't think that humans were capable of understanding everything.

As an agnostic I had a interest in culture, and cultural belief systems so I read a ****e load of stuff from different religions that atheists generally wouldn't have any interest in, and religious people probably wouldn't because it would probably go against there religions. I just thought "maybe, and interesting" to all that stuff.

But then I broke up with my girlfriend of a few years and fell into mad depression and swore to myself that I wasn't trusting or letting another woman suck the life out of me (no pun) again and went celibate. It's been a fair while since that's happened and now I seem to be reassessing everything, the world seems very fecking depressing and pointless without love (or weed), it seems almost impossible to walk the line and do what the nanny state or some ****ebag corporation says when you've got no one who makes it feel worthwhile, this depressing craics got me actually questioning things seriously for the first time and sort of thinking there's something to a few of these religious things that I've read over the years and since it's such a mix up of different belief systems from the agnostic reading does that sort of make me a gnostic now or wha? :pac:

Apologies if this is a pile of mad jargon or in the wrong forum or whatever i'm shattered and can't be holed reading over it.

I liked it! weed's great... and I do, I suppose, see where a certain depression could arise from the thought of ones life being set out in stone by some uncaring chance occurrence.

but I've always thought to myself "just keep your head up and keep moving" and that that philosophy in itself might have been destined to me and to be where my true power comes from.

I hold true to everything that is myself, logic and reasoning and thus my agnosticism inclusive, and I want to be and best I can be so I keep moving. simple as. I don't ever stop so I need no prop. rhymes :P I need no reason but that I am myself, an unconquerable machine, here to run my course.

make a life of who you really are, not who someone tells you to be for a hope to forever be or better be or both. these religions impose their wills upon us, much as the corporations and governments. don't submit to them of depression of them. but then if you're to be a sheep...?

I personally see more fun to be had with life than succumbing to silly insecurities...

JohnRiver

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Which automatically negates any opinion you may have.

hey, he certainly voiced one with his post...and I'd actually consider it a fact myself.

whatever about the rudeness...

JohnRiver

MrStuffins wrote: »

I didn't give an opinion.

Try to keep up!

well you did really...or you're just kinda weird :P lol..

I must really try reading everything before I post :P

JohnRiver

smokingman wrote: »

I wonder why a lot of conspiracy theorists are religious...you'd think that would be a contradiction but apparantly not.

Maybe it's where the "it's only a theory" came from.

Maybe it's just the fact that conspiacy theorists are people with something missing in their lives just like those that turn to religion to fill a hole.

I wonder if a poll was taken of religious peoples favourite sci-fi shows, would X-files be top? I'd imagine X-Men would be bottom of the pile with all that, y'know, mutation and god like powers and whatnot. :pac:

the religious conspiracy theorists bit was funny :P

JohnRiver

seamus wrote: »

It's subjective.

The lack of meaning is only an issue if you initially assumed that having meaning is an end or a measure in itself. That is, if having meaning holds no value for you, then lack of meaning in the universe will have little impact on your mental state.
To make a very simplistic comparison - for a soccer supporter, the end goal might be the team winning the cup. When the team doesn't win the cup, the supporter feels to have lost something of value and will suffer mentally for it. For a non-supporter, the cup holds no value, so winning or losing will not affect them in any way.

The existential kicker is that if my existence makes a difference in the long-term, I will never know. So it's an utterly unmeasurable measure for the individual. Like worrying about your team winning the cup, but the cup final never takes place within your lifetime.

Of course the problem is that the vast, vast majority of us strive towards seeking out meaning, or otherwise creating a legacy for ourselves. To make it appear that we made a difference with our existence.
Maybe it's a social construct, maybe it's something to do with ego, maybe it's an essential component of evolution, or maybe it's a complex mixture of a whole pile of things.

Overcoming the depressing idea of one's life being meaningless isn't about learning to cope with it, it's about realising that "meaning" itself is nothing more than an abstract concept to which we ascribe arbitrary value. Or to be even more abstract, "Meaning" itself is meaninginless. Getting hung up on the meaninglessness of something meaningless is a nice mental exercise, but it will also tie you up in irresolvable knots.

My dog doesn't worry about making a difference. She just lives life on a day-to-day basis and does her best to be happy. Realising that "meaning" is not a universal constant and rather just an ideal in your head is very important.

could you not have just said live life for yourself and the self you know? it's a much better argument :P and I've always taken when people referred to life's meaning as them referring to its worth. :P ...there was a tongue deserved there (edit).

ah shur, straight up, you're proposing cowardice aren't ya? wrapped up in argument against God. for the dude to just get himself content with who he is now... double wrapped in a dance around worth's meaning that was silly ending it all with a daily looking for happiness.

you sound like a robot.

MagicMarker

Are you going to reply to every single post?

JohnRiver

MagicMarker wrote: »

Are you going to reply to every single post?

well this one because you asked me a question...but I read on past seamus's before I posted and was lazy enough to stop. I might go again? who knows? I mean what else did people put those posts there for but to have been replied to?

smokingman

Galvasean wrote: »

I'd agree with others who have suggested speaking to a professional,
I would also like to ad that I'm sure most of us have been through a bad breakup and went through the 'swearing off women forever' phase. Taking a break from women/relationships could be very beneficial to you, but declaring yourself celibate because you have been hurt by a woman strikes me as an overreaction.

A bad overreaction at that.
My worst breakup resulted in 6 months of bad poetry.

Not something I'd ever like to repeat...

Dades

talkinyite - if you want to reply in this thread - PM me.

Otherwise I'm treating it like a hit and run and closing it before it's filled with any more of the nonsense it seems to be attracting now.