Advice about Miscarriage(s)

melody_cool

Hi there,
I have had 2 miscarriages recently and really need some solid advice about what i could do differently if i decide to try again.
I have a healthy 2 and a half yr old daughter, my cycle is reg and i seem to get pregnant easily. I eat healthy, don't drink or smoke and i drink decaf coffee so what am i doing wrong that i can't hold on to my pregnancy?
I spoke to the doc but he had no answers for me and i can't get tested unless it happens again.
Any suggestions/advice/opinions would be appreciated i really don't want to go through the heartache of losing another baby.

Fri.Day

I`m so sorry for your loss Melody,
I`m busy looking for answers at the minute myself, I miscarried in august.
I read that thread that is stickied "Trying to Conceive" from the very start to present and there are useful things to do. Maca, aspirin etc.
Some ladies have done different things so have a read and see about what you can do.
What I`ve started myself is charting my temperature on fertilityfriend and bought the book "taking control of your fertility" toni weschler, acupuncture and trying my best to have sex at the right time.
I`ve identified 2 possible reasons so if I`ll see how it goes...
Why can`t you get tested for any issues? Do you really have to have another m/c for that?
Hope that helps - I`m not very good at advice without rambling...

applejam

It took a term loss and 3 mc's for me to be tested, turned out to be a blood clotting disorder that baby aspirin (75mg daily) for me to carry full term.
Maybe chat about the pros of aspirin to your obs ?? I know loads of girls it has helped.


So sorry for your losses x

melody_cool

Thanks, Fri.Day and applejam I am very sorry to hear about your losses also.
I did hear about taking aspirin but when i mentioned it to my Doctor he said he never heard that and would have to research it! I don't have an ob, maybe someone can recommend one to me?

Femmesage

melody_cool wrote: »

Hi there,
I have had 2 miscarriages recently and really need some solid advice about what i could do differently if i decide to try again.
I have a healthy 2 and a half yr old daughter, my cycle is reg and i seem to get pregnant easily. I eat healthy, don't drink or smoke and i drink decaf coffee so what am i doing wrong that i can't hold on to my pregnancy?
I spoke to the doc but he had no answers for me and i can't get tested unless it happens again.
Any suggestions/advice/opinions would be appreciated i really don't want to go through the heartache of losing another baby.

Hi melody_cool
Firstly sincere sympaties on your miscarraiges. So tragic as there is so much hope & plans with every pregnancy.

I have had successful pregnancies after hearing about a dr in Galway.
My friend recommended him,having had four miscarriages before attending him.
By correctly diagonising & treating a slight hormone imbalance, she carried & gave birth, three times,to three gorgeous girls.

I attended him with primary infertility. Six months later baby no 1. 18mths later pregnant again with twins! No treatment needed this time to conceive but I take cyclogest (progesterone) & get levels checked which ensure I won't miscarry through low hormones.

I recently told another friend about him after many years of infertility. Lo & behold! She's 7wks Preg!
So suffice to say I have a lot of faith in him & his practice.
His name is Phil Boyle & He runs the Napro clinic in Galway. But if you google it, I think he has a practice in Dublin a few days also.
As you can see from the experiences I've had & know of from him, I think he's great.
He's not crazy expensive nor is he invasive in his treatment, it's all very much you monitoring your body for a few months first.
Best of luck with everything.

groz

Hi Melody_cool and All,

Sorry to hear about your miscarriages. I have never had an experience of late miscarriage - meaning, but since trying for my first child, I've had several 'early miscarriages' or chemical pregnancies as they are better known. However, some doctors do not take this in to consideration at all. I think this is wrong. I have come across a book recently that explained to me a lot of things in relation to the miscarriage. It is an interesting read and it is called:

"Is Your Body Baby-Friendly?: Unexplained Infertility, Miscarriage & IVF Failure" Authors - Alan E. Beer, Julia Kantecky & Jane Reed

It is pretty much well summed up here in these reviews:

From the reader
this book opens up a fascinating perspective on something your arrogant reproductive endocrinologist may know very little about. I had all the tests done, had to really argue for it, and discovered some interesting data that informed our decisions. If you have ever miscarried with a fever, read this book.


From the Publisher
No longer do patients have to accept that their infertility is "just bad luck" and they just have to "keep on trying." No longer should women with recurrent miscarriages have to listen to their doctor telling them that their loss was "God's will" or that they ought to be thankful because their baby was probably chromosomally abnormal. The statistics simply do not support such claims—in fact, they show that repeated reproductive failure can be a symptom of wider health problems in the mother. Furthermore, the root cause can be treated—not only to promote the chances of a successful pregnancy, but to improve the mother's health long-term.

From the Author
In response to growing demand, the thoughts and theories of the internationally acclaimed fertility specialist Dr. Alan Beer have been documented. "Is Your Body Baby-Friendly?" explains for the first time ever why "unexplained" infertility, IVF failures and recurrent miscarriages happen.
This book shows how the immune system can behave in a way that prevents a pregnancy from continuing. High levels of Natural Killer cells, genetic compatibility between partners and blood clotting problems are all significant causes of reproductive failure.

Autoimmunity—either inherited or environmentally triggered—is a major reason for the increase in infertility and miscarriage today. In addition to medical treatments, there are also natural ways that the immune system can be moderated to create a more "baby-friendly" environment.

For the first time, readers will be able to see that their reproductive problems have a root cause and that in many cases, they can be addressed with immune therapy and possibly by making certain changes to their lifestyle.


I think it is a good idea to read this book and with some clearer idea go to the more experienced Reproductive Endocrinologist (GP is not of any help here, I'm sorry to say) and talk to him/her and suggest/demand some advanced tests to be done.

What I like about the 'phylosophy' of Dr.Beer is that he absolutely hates the idea of waiting for few miscarriages to happen and letting women go through terrible ordeals only then to be tested and told that nothing can be done - "it is just what it is - the body naturally rejects the baby". This book suggests that there are some things that certainly could be done to reduce or eliminate any chance of problems occurring again.

Please read, I think some excerpts are available online I believe.

Good luck and hope this helps at least a little bit.

All the best!

Grawns

I would do a lot of research before I availed of Napro. They are well known as right wing christians with an anti IVF agenda. I find their creed ofensive myself and it could be very damaging for over sensitive people.
http://www.theword.ie/cms/publish/printer_396.shtml

melody_cool

My sincere thanks to everyone offering their advice here, it gives me hope that i can carry another baby.
@Groz I think i will have to get that book you mentioned, it sounds like there is a lot i don't know.
@Femmesage & Grawns I never heard of Napro, i think that this sounds like an definite option though because my doctor as nice as he is didn't seem to know anything about what is available for women in this situation, he even had to ask one of the other female doctors because he didn't know that it is strict policy that you cannot be tested until you have 3 miscarriages.
Besk of luck to anyone else going through the same issues.

Femmesage

melody_cool wrote: »

My sincere thanks to everyone offering their advice here, it gives me hope that i can carry another baby.
@Groz I think i will have to get that book you mentioned, it sounds like there is a lot i don't know.
@Femmesage & Grawns I never heard of Napro, i think that this sounds like an definite option though because my doctor as nice as he is didn't seem to know anything about what is available for women in this situation, he even had to ask one of the other female doctors because he didn't know that it is strict policy that you cannot be tested until you have 3 miscarriages.
Besk of luck to anyone else going through the same issues.

Among the suspected causes of miscarriage are; incompetent cervix. Usually affects later misc & it's basically where the cervix can't hold the Preg. If diagonised it can be treated.
Or it may be an intrinsic factor. I think the policy in most centres is three missc before they look at coagulation studies & consider treatment such as aspirin as mentioned above.
Another factor is low progesterone but once you have miscarried it's too late to check the level. However if low during the pregnancy it can be treated.

Napro does seem to have an initial 'religious' undercurrent. I remembered hearing Phil Boyle on gerry Ryan one morning after he won his case in some court not to provide fertility treatment to unwed couples.
I asked him about this when I met him & he said it was his belief, old fashioned or otherwise that he brings children into a 'stable' family unit where there is more likelihood of a couple staying together.
It's an odd notion but tbh I felt if that was his belief he was entitled to hold it, once he was as good as I heard I didn't care. Maybe a selfish outlook, but when you're trying for a baby, end result is all that matters.
They don't look for proof of marriage so it's not necessarily stringent.

Re IVF. My friend had three yrs of ivf & he never passed heed on it. Also at initial appoint he told me the instances where he wouldnt be able to help ( ie low sperm count etc) and said ivf would be the only hope then.

All this said, I've not read the link provided. So I can't comment on it's content. My husband works in the medical field ( not obstetrics ) and has since heard a lot about dr Phil boyle and his successes.
But from a personal point of view, he definately was worth the consideration!

melody_cool

@Femmesage I'm not married to my partner but i have known him for almost 2 decades and we had a daughter together so i hope should we decide to make an appointment with Dr Boyle he doesn't turn us away....because i do believe we have a more stable relationship than a lot of married couples out there.

I was trying to find more info about his practice but i couldn't find a website, i'll keep digging. Thanks again for all the info and advice it's very much appreciated at at time when i feel lost about what has happened.

Neyite

melody_cool wrote: »

@Femmesage I'm not married to my partner but i have known him for almost 2 decades and we had a daughter together so i hope should we decide to make an appointment with Dr Boyle he doesn't turn us away....because i do believe we have a more stable relationship than a lot of married couples out there.

I was trying to find more info about his practice but i couldn't find a website, i'll keep digging. Thanks again for all the info and advice it's very much appreciated at at time when i feel lost about what has happened.

I am afraid he probably will turn you away. If you are not married, you will not be accepted for Napro in Galway, irrespective of how long you are with your partner. I am not married either, and could agree with you that a wedding ring is no safeguard for a stable relationship, and I also live in Galway where it is common knowledge that they dont treat unmarried couples. I would dearly hope that they have altered their policies, but as of last year they had not. Just make sure that they dont make you pay for an appointment only for them to tell you that they cant treat you, and leave you down €200 or whatever the initial consult costs.

Edit: clinic details here: http://www.galwayclinic.com/default.aspx?treeid=40&CID=156

melody_cool

Thanks the advice upfront Neyite, i wouldn't want to waste my time and money if he would refuse to treat me. If anyone knows anyone else out there that treats unmarried couples with Napro.....or has any success stories from other treatments i'd love to know.......

Femmesage

melody_cool wrote: »

Thanks the advice upfront Neyite, i wouldn't want to waste my time and money if he would refuse to treat me. If anyone knows anyone else out there that treats unmarried couples with Napro.....or has any success stories from other treatments i'd love to know.......

I think Neyite is right.I just checked with the two other girls I know & they both were asked year of marriage on booking.
Such a pity he restricts it as it's a service everyone should be able to avail of.

Grawns

Femmesage wrote: »

melody_cool wrote: »

Thanks the advice upfront Neyite, i wouldn't want to waste my time and money if he would refuse to treat me. If anyone knows anyone else out there that treats unmarried couples with Napro.....or has any success stories from other treatments i'd love to know.......

I think Neyite is right.I just checked with the two other girls I know & they both were asked year of marriage on booking.
Such a pity he restricts it as it's a service everyone should be able to avail of.

Yuk! I admit I have an anti religion bias though:) my only concern is that if anyone oversensitive were to try this before ivf they will fill your head with nonsense and perhaps deny someone a chance of a baby. They don't need to do this if they get you post ivf. I have a friend who used them pre ivf that's how I know. Her desire for a child and her shaky religious beliefs allowed her to proceed to successful ivf despite their propaganda.

melody_cool

I think it's a real shame that he has the opinion because i've heard so many good things about him. I have a lot i could say about this subject but i think it's much of what most people on this thread think anyway.

Marriage is not an option for me so i guess i'll have to find some other doctor to help me.

barbiegirl

I have had some dealings with napro. After our second miss we contacted him. He rang us and we started arranging dates for appointments. Then we found out we were pregnant again. I e-mailed him the happy news and he rang me straight back, gave me a list of stuff to get my gp to prescribe all with no charge by him.
I found Dr Philip to be a man who cared we'd not even met and he cared.
Yes they are an association who believe in marriage before kids. They are a private clinic so can put any restriction they want in place. It's a pity, but those are his rules as he believes a stable relationship is needed to withstand fertility and miscarriage issues and his way of trying to ensure this is insisting on only married couples. We might not like his views but he and the association are entitled to them.
After our last miss we're in the Coombe Mis-carriage clinic having lots of tests but if they find nothing then it will be back to Napro for us. Their results are excellent.

melody_cool

melody_cool wrote: »

what am i doing wrong that i can't hold on to my pregnancy?

First of all, I'm very sorry for your loss, and I hope things go better for you in future. Miscarriage is a dreadful thing to go through, and even more so when it happens more than once.

I deliberately quoted one part of your post so that I could reply to it and say - as firmly as possible - that you aren't doing anything wrong. Regardless of what else has happened or will happen, and regardless of what else you might read on this thread, it's really important that you remember this.

There are some risk factors for miscarriage, but none of them apply to you and in any case there isn't really any concrete evidence to say that women are more likely to have miscarriages if they "do something wrong". The truth is that despite a lot of research, miscarriage is not that well understood, and the medics aren't really making any headway with preventing miscarriages. And regrettably, because of the hurt and sadness that miscarriages cause, there are people out there who claim they have some kind of inside track on preventing them. But they don't.

What we do know is that miscarriages are common events. It's hard to get precise statistics, but anything up to a quarter of all pregnancies in Ireland result in miscarriage. If you think about it, that means that a surprisingly high percentage of women will have at least one miscarriage at some stage in their lives. If you think about it further, quite a high percentage will have two miscarriages - and yet for many of those women there will be nothing wrong with them to cause that. This is why women aren't tested for underlying causes until they've had a third miscarriage. It sounds cold and "sciencey", but if the doctors did it differently they would (for most women) be chasing and trying to diagnose medical problems where none exist.

We also know that about 60% of miscarriages are caused by chromosome disorders, and that these are a bit more likely to happen as women get older. As to the other 40%, there are all sorts of ideas and theories - and along with those there are all sorts of proposed treatment methods and programmes. But the truth is that there's no real evidence that they work, and even when a woman has one of these treatments and then has a successful pregnancy, it is usually impossible to tell if it was because of the treatment or if it would just have happened anyway.

As time goes by, it's likely that the medics will start to get to grips with the causes of miscarriage, but right now they are shooting in the dark to a large extent, and the honest truth is that there is quite a lot of luck involved.

I'm sorry if that's all a bit off-putting, because it isn't meant to be. What I'm really getting at is that there can be a bit of luck and chance involved, and that miscarriages aren't caused by medics getting it wrong or by women doing anything wrong. But because miscarriages involve so much heartbreak, sometimes it can be tempting to look for causes where there aren't any, or to look for something to blame in yourself. It is really important not to do that.

All the best.

melody_cool

@Barbiegirl sorry for your losses.

I do understand that Dr Boyle is entitled to his beliefs but i have to disagree with him based on my experiences in life. being married or not married doesn't make for a stable relationship...any number of circumstances can make or break a couple's relationship. Maybe the stats say that more married couples stay together but does that mean they are happy?

@Ulysses1874 Everything you said makes sense to me and when i had the first m/c it made me feel better when the doctor told me much the same thing, it's harder to accept that the second time because of the fear i have of it happening again...i guess i feel like i should be doing something to try prevent it. I have decided to read the books suggested on this thread and take it from there, i'm not sure what i'll do if we try and it happens again, i'll cross that bridge if i come to it......