on the spot subject inspections

andee

Hi,

I am just wondering if on the spot subject inspections are in yet? I heard they have to be agreed with the unions first.

Can anyone shed any light on this?

thanks in advance

Toto Wolfcastle

I was told by someone last week that they are due to start in the middle of October. As far as I remember her source was credible, although I can't remember where she found out now. On the other hand, I don't really trust anything I hear in teaching any more because everyone always seems to have a different story.

implausible

Whole School Evaluations are still happening, but the ongoing ones surely have to be the final ones.

I raised this at a union meeting and yes, the unions are giving submissions to the Dept about this. However, there is very little negotiation to be done as our terms and conditions of service have always specified that we were subject to inspection and that hasn't changed, even if the type of inspections have. Our Area Rep expressed the view that this is a cost-saving measure, reducing the number of inspectors. Another thing he said was that the same level of paperwork would not be looked for in comparison to a planned WSE or subject inspection. The inspectors will look for plans etc if they are not happy with what they see in the classroom (I'd be a bit sceptical about that one myself, I don't think inspectors are going to unlearn their methodology of inspection just like that). Oh, and a written report would not be issued, but there would be follow-up visits and reports if the inspectors weren't happy.

That's my second-hand tuppence-worth anyway!

happywithlife

i heard today that they took effect last as and from last week but haven't heard of any actually happening.
wouldn't mind it if it sorted the terrible timetabling in the school i'm subbing in at the moment - i see all junior classes twice a week for a double! 3rd years on a monday and not again till friday. absolute nightmare! its not anywhere near meeting the actual recommendations for the subject and i don't know how the teacher has put up with it over the years. they have avoided any subject inspection to date.

solerina

I think everyone is wondering exactly what will happen when these on the spot inspections begin, so who ever has one or knows something definate (ie one happened in your school, not friend of a friend, twice removed stuff) can you please post up some information so we can all know what to expect. Thanks.

evolving_doors

Word on the street says they're calling them 'drive by inspections'... hillarious..

byhookorbycrook

Armelodie wrote: »

Word on the street says they're calling them 'drive by inspections'... hillarious..

We have these in primary and had the pleasure of seeing the cigire land into the carpark(overlooked by the staffrooom) in the recent past. It was like a scene from the Three Stooges as the entire staff legged it out the staffroom door. :P

I have no issue with incidentals, more realistic than the dog and pony show that is a WSE.Plus, we usually have so many special ed. questions and issues on cutbacks that I'd imagine any inspector would prefer to make a swift getaway.:D

Our inspector is good, so that helps. My husband had an inspector last year who was the year behing me in college and the laughing stock of his year,I'd only love for him to land in to me.

doc_17

Anybody have one of these unannounced inspections yet? Or hear of any of them taking place at second level?

golden virginia

Incidental Inspections at second level are in. There is a guide.

rebel10

I cannot wait for the inspections to begin in my school. Some of the older staff could do with a little shaking. One issue I have is that the inspector may have been, lets say an English teacher, how is someone who knows nothing about my subject supposed to tell me what I am doing wrong? Are they following some sort of standardised method of teaching guidelines? Another small issue is the fact that you have to make yourself available to meet with them either after the lesson or during another class. Now, I know that in my school this will become a huge issue. First of all teachers don't want to miss any classes, in particular exam classes, secondly, if I have a class off during the day which gives me time to eat my lunch because I have been supervising, or prepare for other classes, I don't want to give up my free time.

doc_17

rebel10 wrote: »

I cannot wait for the inspections to begin in my school. Some of the older staff could do with a little shaking. One issue I have is that the inspector may have been, lets say an English teacher, how is someone who knows nothing about my subject supposed to tell me what I am doing wrong? Are they following some sort of standardised method of teaching guidelines? Another small issue is the fact that you have to make yourself available to meet with them either after the lesson or during another class. Now, I know that in my school this will become a huge issue. First of all teachers don't want to miss any classes, in particular exam classes, secondly, if I have a class off during the day which gives me time to eat my lunch because I have been supervising, or prepare for other classes, I don't want to give up my free time.

I'd imagine that you would only be inspected by someone who teaches your subject? As for meeting with them in your own time or during another class.,.,your choice. But it might be handy to have the chance to explain some things that might have happened in your class and put them in context.

But if the class went grand then you should feel free to eat your lunch instead of meet with them. But I'd say the principal would want you to meet them.

jonseyblub

Are these on the spot inspections going to be subject based or is it that they'll visit any 5 classes taking place in the school on that particular day? Had a very quick look through the document but didn't notice any word on it.

rebel10

doc_17 wrote: »

I'd imagine that you would only be inspected by someone who teaches your subject? As for meeting with them in your own time or during another class.,.,your choice. But it might be handy to have the chance to explain some things that might have happened in your class and put them in context.

But if the class went grand then you should feel free to eat your lunch instead of meet with them. But I'd say the principal would want you to meet them.

No, they won't be picking only one subject to inspect per day. The ASTI told us that they could be inspecting French in one class and then MTW in the next. That is why I am concerned.
You have to meet them after.

rebel10

jonseyblub wrote: »

Are these on the spot inspections going to be subject based or is it that they'll visit any 5 classes taking place in the school on that particular day? Had a very quick look through the document but didn't notice any word on it.

No not subject based, but was told by the union that there will be a focus on numeracy and literacy so to expect alot of maths/English classes to be hit.

doc_17

jonseyblub wrote: »

Are these on the spot inspections going to be subject based or is it that they'll visit any 5 classes taking place in the school on that particular day? Had a very quick look through the document but didn't notice any word on it.

Just saw on the first page

The inspection visits may focus on teaching and learning in one subject or may
cover a number of different curriculum areas or programmes during the course of

the school day

rebel10 wrote: »

No, they won't be picking only one subject to inspect per day. The ASTI told us that they could be inspecting French in one class and then MTW in the next. That is why I am concerned.
You have to meet them after.

I wouldn't be one bit worried if an English teacher came to see any of my Maths classes. in fact I'd relish the opportunity to make a point of asking what their subject background is. I wouldn't dream of going into an English teacher's claaa and trying to tell them how to teach Shakespere.

If someone is having a problem with class discipline then that would be fairly obvious. But having someone inspect you who has no knowledge or experience of eaching the subject you teach is dumb.

rebel10

doc_17 wrote: »

JIf someone is having a problem with class discipline then that would be fairly obvious. But having someone inspect you who has no knowledge or experience of eaching the subject you teach is dumb.

+1. Well, from my experience of inspectors, they generally are teachers who left their teaching posts for one reason or another. One particular inspector that visited our school was known by some of our staff as she had taught in a school locally and I was told the reason why she left was because she had difficulties in controlling her classes.:rolleyes:

rainbowtrout

Drive by inspections have been taking place in the north west over the last few days. There was an inspection in the Ursuline College, Sligo yesterday (teacher I work with is friends with a teacher who works there) and apparently in Tubbercurry, Co. Sligo on Monday. We haven't heard the details of the inspections yet.

rainbowtrout

Was talking to another teacher friend last night. Gortnor Abbey in Crossmolina had a drive by during the week, so north Mayo/Sligo is getting hit this week.

Rosita

rebel10 wrote: »

I cannot wait for the inspections to begin in my school. Some of the older staff could do with a little shaking. One issue I have is that the inspector may have been, lets say an English teacher, how is someone who knows nothing about my subject supposed to tell me what I am doing wrong? Are they following some sort of standardised method of teaching guidelines? Another small issue is the fact that you have to make yourself available to meet with them either after the lesson or during another class. Now, I know that in my school this will become a huge issue. First of all teachers don't want to miss any classes, in particular exam classes, secondly, if I have a class off during the day which gives me time to eat my lunch because I have been supervising, or prepare for other classes, I don't want to give up my free time.

From someone who, according to your opening remark, cannot wait for the inspections to begin in order to "shake" other teachers you sure do seem to have a lot of reservations yourself.

peanuthead

Rosita wrote: »

From someone who, according to your opening remark, cannot wait for the inspections to begin in order to "shake" other teachers you sure do seem to have a lot of reservations yourself.

No he/she doesn't - they are simply asking questions about the structure of the inspections which is very reasonable imo

Rosita

peanuthead wrote: »

No he/she doesn't - they are simply asking questions about the structure of the inspections which is very reasonable imo

This did seem more like a reservation than a question to me: Another small issue is the fact that you have to make yourself available to meet with them either after the lesson or during another class. Now, I know that in my school this will become a huge issue. First of all teachers don't want to miss any classes, in particular exam classes, secondly, if I have a class off during the day which gives me time to eat my lunch because I have been supervising, or prepare for other classes, I don't want to give up my free time.

But perhaps, as you suggest, it is a question about the structure of the inspections and I am missing something. It doesn't really read like a question to me to be honest. Maybe the person themselves would have a view on it.

Toto Wolfcastle

Rosita there is no need to be so pedantic. If you cannot post helpfully then don't post at all. Do not respond to this warning on-thread.

golden virginia

rebel10 wrote: »

I cannot wait for the inspections to begin in my school. Some of the older staff could do with a little shaking.

Rosita wrote: »

From someone who, according to your opening remark, cannot wait for the inspections to begin in order to "shake" other teachers you sure do seem to have a lot of reservations yourself.

Bobblehead Panda wrote: »

Rosita there is no need to be so pedantic. If you cannot post helpfully then don't post at all. Do not respond to this warning on-thread.

I feel very shocked that older staff need to be "shook up ".
Thankyou Rosita for your help in pointing out that rebel 10 had reservations in this regard.

I have learnt so much from older teacher, now that i am ageing, I have orthopedic issues.

In the above posts, i note that there are comments about inspectorate personnel. Inspectors do not shake any teachers, for certain.

golden virginia

rebel10 wrote: »

+1. Well, from my experience of inspectors, they generally are teachers who left their teaching posts for one reason or another. One particular inspector that visited our school was known by some of our staff as she had taught in a school locally and I was told the reason why she left was because she had difficulties in controlling her classes.:rolleyes:

I find inspectors to be very professional.

golden virginia

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Our inspector is good, so that helps. My husband had an inspector last year who was the year behing me in college and the laughing stock of his year,I'd only love for him to land in to me.

Inspectors and the Inspection process is very beneficial.

spurious

golden virginia wrote: »

I find inspectors to be very professional.

I do too.
I find in general they are more interested in increasing 'best practice' rather than trying to catch anyone out.

I welcome the unannounced inspections - let them see what is really going on and just what effect the cuts are having.

rainbowtrout

spurious wrote: »

I do too.
I find in general they are more interested in increasing 'best practice' rather than trying to catch anyone out.

I welcome the unannounced inspections - let them see what is really going on and just what effect the cuts are having.

Yes, I would welcome them with open arms into my fifth year computer class, of 24 computers and 33 students.

Powerhouse

rebel10 wrote: »

Another small issue is the fact that you have to make yourself available to meet with them either after the lesson or during another class.

That's looking for excuses. Any teacher should be prepared and available to discuss their class with an inspector. It is a normal part of the school day to have cover for teachers who might be unavailable for some reason. That's not an issue at all. Nobody is that busy.

And everybody in every job has days when lunch is not so easy. Such is life. You won't be inspected every day.

Benicetomonty

To be honest, I'm not sure of the relevance of incidentals. It seems to me that the inspectorate is the only remaining area in education that continues to be invested in, even though it remains as ineffective as ever when it comes to actually challenging the positions of completely incompetent teachers.

Unless of course you're temporary, when post-lesson reports to the principal might actually mean something :rolleyes:

peanuthead

Benicetomonty wrote: »

To be honest, I'm not sure of the relevance of incidentals. It seems to me that the inspectorate is the only remaining area in education that continues to be invested in, even though it remains as ineffective as ever when it comes to actually challenging the positions of completely incompetent teachers.

Unless of course you're temporary, when post-lesson reports to the principal might actually mean something :rolleyes:

To be honest - I find them far more relevant than other inspections. I'm delighted that for once and for all they are actually taking the time to observe all of this theory IN PRACTICE and for once it's not about the admin and whether little Johnny has a date on his page - but more focused on whether Johnny can take part in class and has a clue about what he's doing.

Unless I've got it all wrong, but I doubt that as I read the guidelines thoroughly.

Benicetomonty

peanuthead wrote: »

To be honest - I find them far more relevant than other inspections. I'm delighted that for once and for all they are actually taking the time to observe all of this theory IN PRACTICE and for once it's not about the admin and whether little Johnny has a date on his page - but more focused on whether Johnny can take part in class and has a clue about what he's doing.

Unless I've got it all wrong, but I doubt that as I read the guidelines thoroughly.

I had a subject inspection last April and, in practice, I don't see how incidentals add anything new. None of my record keeping was asked of me at the time; students' copies were checked, they were asked a few questions on what we'd done and inspector and I had a chat. And that was it. Her comments were perfectly fair and constructive, I might add but I found the whole experience bizarre; I got on fairly well with that particular class but the her presence created a different atmosphere, one of egg-shell treading on the parts of both students and I. Advance notice or otherwise, I genuinely don't see inspected classes running without that sense of...well, 'intrusion' might be the wrong word but you get the point. Therefore, imo, unless you prove to be completely incompetent during the class, the incidental becomes little more than a spot check. And either way, permanent teachers are practically unaffected. Just seems biased to me and not an addition to that which is already in place.

mrboswell

I hear there was one in Dublin city yesterday

golden virginia

Benicetomonty wrote: »

n a spot check. .

I regard incidental inspections as that - a spot check! Like the primary sector; reports that may be issued are statistical snapshots. Its a way of taking a cross section through what is happening now in schools. In my opinion this doesn't do any harm and if accurate, may be beneficial for teacher!

rebel girl 15

We had one on the 15th November in North Cork - history, geography and CSPE were looked at

rainbowtrout

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

We had one on the 15th November in North Cork - history, geography and CSPE were looked at

So what happened exactly?

rebel girl 15

rainbowtrout wrote: »

So what happened exactly?

Not 100% sure of the details, but he arrived in at 8.20, school day normally starts at 9am. Spent the first class in the office, and then went to look at a number of classes, geography was supposed to be one, but both the contracted geography teachers were out, so he ended up doing History and CSPE, not sure did he look at an English class.

Feedback was very positive - had this thing about learning outcomes and that they should be written on the board before the class.

School in Ballincollig had one last Monday as well

solerina

Every person that I have heard having an on the spot inspection or a WSE MLL its all about writing the learning outcomes on the board at the start of the lesson, and leaving them there, and checking with the class at the end that they are covered...obviously 'learning outcomes' is the latest Buzz word in the Dept .

rainbowtrout

solerina wrote: »

Every person that I have heard having an on the spot inspection or a WSE MLL its all about writing the learning outcomes on the board at the start of the lesson, and leaving them there, and checking with the class at the end that they are covered...obviously 'learning outcomes' is the latest Buzz word in the Dept .

That was said to us last year for a regular subject inspection.

rebel girl 15

rainbowtrout wrote: »

That was said to us last year for a regular subject inspection.

Still being said - friend of mine had an subject inspection and that was mentioned as well

kob29

Yep our place had a drive by in the last three weeks, he sat in on about 4 classes. The look of heart failure in the staff room that morning was priceless Reports from three of the four inspected were very positive in terms of what they got from it (the other one who is a fly by the seat of her arse kinda teacher was grumbling alright). No harm I think over all

spurious

We had a drive-by yesterday. Four teachers were visited - Maths, English, Geography and Science. All went well according to reports.

One 'character' started acting up in a class, but the Inspector just took his journal (which of course contained all his transgressions since the start of the year), realised what he was dealing with and ignored him.

Everyone seemed very pleased with how it went.

byhookorbycrook

spurious wrote: »

One 'character' started acting up in a class, but the Inspector just took his journal (which of course contained all his transgressions since the start of the year), realised what he was dealing with and ignored him.

A sensible cigire??Good lord, thought that was a contradiction in terms!!

doc_17

The dept were advertising for inspectors in the papers this week.

I'm not surprised by the benign natural of these inspections so far. It will begin like that just as the WSEsnd subject inspections did then get more critical as time goes on.

unknowngirl!!

Sorry to bring this thread back up but I'm trying to find out exactly what is meant to be done by each department in terms of subject planning. I can't find anything online and I was wondering if someone could guide me in the right direction...

Thanks in advance.

solerina

Nothing specific for the drive by inspections.
For proper inspections you need a good bit of detail...schemes which are very detailed, weekly, termly, yearly etc. You also need learning outcomes, sections on literacy and numeracy, your methodology, comparison between your JC and Lc results and the national averages, homework policy etc...our subject planning file is huge and we are always being given new headings to add more stuff into it !!

rainbowtrout

unknowngirl!! wrote: »

Sorry to bring this thread back up but I'm trying to find out exactly what is meant to be done by each department in terms of subject planning. I can't find anything online and I was wondering if someone could guide me in the right direction...

Thanks in advance.

You'll find some useful templates etc on this website for subject planning. It's for the Irish education system not just random ones found online.

http://www.sdpi.ie/subject_planning.html


Work your way through the Subject Profile Template Document listed about 10th from the bottom and you'll be grand regards paperwork for the most part.

rossean

Any teachers of Irish here who have ever had a drive by inspection?

Pinkycharm

two schools in North Tipp have had them since September.