Barristers & garda in fistycuffs

Sunnyisland

http://www.herald.ie/news/barrister-faces-charges-after-scuffle-with-garda-in-courtroom-rumpus-2898134.html

AGGRIEVED: Barrister Alan Toal is now seeking legal adviceORDER: Judge Murrough
Connellan stood firm Gardai intend to press assault charges against a well-known barrister after he was involved in a bizarre courtroom scuffle with a garda.
Barrister Alan Toal -- who represented slain gangland boss Eamon Dunne -- spent 15 minutes in a holding cell at Bray District Court after he ended up scuffling on the ground with a garda in front of shocked onlookers in the court room.
But in an exclusive interview with the Herald today, Mr Toal said he is taking legal advice after the incident which left him with scratches, marks and bruises.
He said he is now seeking legal advice "in all dimensions" about the incident.
Mr Toal said that if he was arrested in relation to the incident, he would subpoena Judge Connellan as a witness.
"He is as answerable to a subpoena as anybody else, and if he did not respond I could apply to secure his attendance," he said.
The incident unfolded shortly before midday yesterday during a family law sitting of the court when a client of Mr Toal arrived late for a court case.
Presiding Judge Murrough Connellan had ordered that no one else was to enter the courtroom as family law matters are held in private, with only people directly involved in the court case allowed in the court.
Mr Toal argued against the judge's order stating that his client and a solicitor involved in the case should be allowed in the courtroom. However Judge Connellan insisted no one else was to enter. Mr Toal continued to argue against the judge's order and refused to sit down when ordered to.
Judge Connellan then asked Mr Toal to leave the courtroom but the barrister refused and a garda approached the barrister on the orders of the judge.
A scuffle ensued and the two men fell on the ground, after which the garda was left with a torn shirt.



Detained
Garda reinforcements were called and Mr Toal was removed to a courtroom holding cell after Judge Connellan ordered his detention. Mr Toal was detained there for 15 minutes before being brought back before the judge, where he apologised to the garda whom he scuffled with but refused to apologise to the judge.
Today, the barrister explained that he was representing a family law case in front of Judge Murrough Connellan yesterday morning and the court had been cleared of everyone but those involved directly in another case.
"Three people arrived late and the judge ask that they not be allowed in, so I explained that one was my solicitor and one was my client," said Mr Toal. "When I refused to sit down he asked that I be taken from the court.
"One garda came to me and I said 'take your hands off me please I am entitled to advise the court' and then all the back-up came," Mr Toal added.
"I was dragged to the cells and locked up against my will," he added.
Mr Toal was later brought back before Judge Connellan.
"He said the resolution of the matter was up to me and I told him that what had happened was a disgrace, and then he replied 'you won't lecture me'."
"I refused to apologise and he told me I would have to withdraw from his court, which I said I would do happily," said Mr Toal, who is a former garda and has been a practising barrister for almost 20 years.
hnews@herald.ie


:eek::eek: Is it not a bad state of affairs when the Barristers and gardai are getting involved in fistycuffs in a court of law,What will the criminals think thats there job

My name is URL

He sounds like as much of a scumbag as the clients he represents

mikemac

The barrister is picking up some habits from his gangland clients, maybe he needs a suspension from the courts

Gee Bag

realies wrote: »

But in an exclusive interview with the Herald today, Mr Toal said he is taking legal advice after the incident which left him with scratches, marks and bruises.

He can't be much of a barrister if he doesn't know that your not supposed to fight guards in a courtroom............you do it outside Copperface Jacks

ScumLord

realies wrote: »

But in an exclusive interview with the Herald today, Mr Toal said he is taking legal advice after the incident which left him with scratches, marks and bruises.
He said he is now seeking legal advice "in all dimensions" about the incident.

"I was dragged to the cells and locked up against my will," he added.

Are they sure this guy is actually a solicitor? he seems a bit naive about the whole law/courts thing.

Morlar

I don't see how that reflects badly on the Garda, he reacted to extreme provocation. The Barrister is the one in that story with no respect for the Irish legal system.

Dan133269

ScumLord wrote: »

Are they sure this guy is actually a solicitor? he seems a bit naive about the whole law/courts thing.

:D:D

jaykay74

realies wrote: »

He said he is now seeking legal advice "in all dimensions" about the incident.
Mr Toal said that if he was arrested in relation to the incident, he would subpoena Judge Connellan as a witness.

The 5th dimension is the trickiest to get legal advise on.

Remmy

ScumLord wrote: »

Are they sure this guy is actually a solicitor? he seems a bit naive about the whole law/courts thing.

Barrister...But that post was pure gold.:D

Remmy

I guess all the advocacy he was doing was really stressful and it finally took it's toal.

Fozzie Bear

A quick Google of Alan Toal turned up this. Seems like he is not too dissimilar to some of those he represents...

"Barrister Alan Toal, who was driving without insurance when he was
involved in a fatal accident, told Dublin Circuit Court that he was
being hounded by the father of the man who had died in the accident.
Following the death of Peter Casey in 1992, Sean Casey of Sandycove,
Co. Dublin, took legal action against Toal. This was eventually
settled out of court late last year with the payment of IR6k to Mr
Casey. Mr Toal succeeded in obtaining an ex parte injunction
restraining Mr Casey from making any further approaches."

ScumLord

Remmy wrote: »

Barrister...But that post was pure gold.:D

I should have used the technical term that covers them all. *****.

Nodin

Wigs on the green.

Mike 1972

Mr Toal said he is taking legal advice

Gee Bag wrote: »

He can't be much of a barrister if he doesn't know that your not supposed to fight guards in a courtroom

Or if he needs to take legal advice on the matter

Gee Bag wrote: »

.....you do it outside Copperface Jacks

Its perfectly legal there ???

Is that like the law they have in Jamacia where its legal to shoot a Sherrif but theyll hang you if you shoot a Deputy ?

mikemac

Lionel Hutz

For Forks Sake

mikemac wrote: »

Lionel Hutz

Care to join me in a belt of scotch?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2yOd_fMal4

Gee Bag

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Its perfectly legal there ???

Is that like the law they have in Jamacia where its legal to shoot a Sherrif but theyll hang you if you shoot a Deputy ?

I guarantee you it's 100% legal outside Copperface Jacks. As a bonus if you win the fight you get to go home with the nurse the guard has been chatting up all night

lucy123

As a professional, I am ashamed to have had a close colleague witness the disgraceful unfolding of events that occurred in Bray District Court.
The solicitor and client which were removed from the court had as much right as every other person in that courtroom and Counsel was correct to insist they were permitted into the Courtroom.
The Judge exceeded his powers and ordered an unlawful detention of a member of the Bar.
The garda was acting upon an Order of the Judge. I beg to refer to the authority upon which the Judge had to make such an Order?! - I am yet to find same.
The garda took an Order from a Judge, knowing the Counsel in question had done nothing. He was then assisted by further Members of An Garda Siochana and detained Counsel in a holding cell.
Might, I remind this country, this Counsel was merely carrying out his duties as a representative of his clients. I have no association nor am affiliated with this particular Member of the Bar, but I am taking this opportunity to express that no person, irrespective of their status should be subjected to such ill treatment from our Judicial System.
This could very easily been your legal representative!

Unique User Name

What about his client? So he turned up ready to roll, then he finds eh my barrister is in the cells? Judge can we resit at another time..... please????

kincsem

First post lucy123. Don't be ashamed.

For Forks Sake

lucy123 wrote: »

I have no association nor am affiliated with this particular Member of the Bar

Hmmmm.......

This could very easily been your legal representative!

I doubt it somehow.

paddyandy

mike1972

Is that like the law they have in Jamacia where its legal to shoot a Sherrif but theyll hang you if you shoot a Deputy ?[/QUOTE]Many Jamaicans regret the loss of british rule ....they are not able to run a police service apparently.

ResearchWill

lucy123 wrote: »

As a professional, I am ashamed to have had a close colleague witness the disgraceful unfolding of events that occurred in Bray District Court.
The solicitor and client which were removed from the court had as much right as every other person in that courtroom and Counsel was correct to insist they were permitted into the Courtroom.
The Judge exceeded his powers and ordered an unlawful detention of a member of the Bar.
The garda was acting upon an Order of the Judge. I beg to refer to the authority upon which the Judge had to make such an Order?! - I am yet to find same.
The garda took an Order from a Judge, knowing the Counsel in question had done nothing. He was then assisted by further Members of An Garda Siochana and detained Counsel in a holding cell.
Might, I remind this country, this Counsel was merely carrying out his duties as a representative of his clients. I have no association nor am affiliated with this particular Member of the Bar, but I am taking this opportunity to express that no person, irrespective of their status should be subjected to such ill treatment from our Judicial System.
This could very easily been your legal representative!

While I agree any order by the Court to exclude a solicitor and or client with out good cause is incorrect, and I do not believe that tardiness is a good reason. In my opinion as a barrister the correct action of counsel, is to inform the court that it is acting outside it's jurisdiction, and to inform the court that you have no option but to leave the court and seek the assistance of a higher court. It is not decent for counsel, judges or garda to let what could be seen to be ego get in the way of the application of the law.

If I was ever in that situation, I would leave court, head straight for the HC and seek judicial review of the DC decision. Also I would regrettable seek an order prohibiting that DJ from hearing the action.

CrazyRabbit

Mr Toal said he is taking legal advice after the incident

Mr Toal can't be much of a barrister if he needs to seek legal advice from someone else.

ResearchWill

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Mr Toal can't be much of a barrister if he needs to seek legal advice from someone else.

A fool takes himself as a client. I am a barrister, I would always employ a solicitor and barrister if I found my self in that situation, you need to have someone who is not emotionally attached to the issue giving you advice.

Logical Fallacy

Morlar wrote: »

I don't see how that reflects badly on the Garda, he reacted to extreme provocation. The Barrister is the one in that story with no respect for the Irish legal system.

You'd think a Gardai would be easily able to handle some bookworm though.:D

steddyeddy

ResearchWill wrote: »

A fool takes himself as a client. I am a barrister, I would always employ a solicitor and barrister if I found my self in that situation, you need to have someone who is not emotionally attached to the issue giving you advice.

Thats understanble and I assume different barristers are expert in various areas of the law.

ShamoBuc

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

You'd think a Gardai would be easily able to handle some bookworm though.:D

Before being a 'bookworm' he was a Garda himself!

UglyBolloxFace

ResearchWill wrote: »

A fool takes himself as a client. I am a barrister, I would always employ a solicitor and barrister if I found my self in that situation, you need to have someone who is not emotionally attached to the issue giving you advice.

I think you mean - "a person who represents himself has a fool for a client".

Jake Rugby Walrus666

I think "Lucy" that the Judge calls the shots. That's the way Court works, isn't it?

squod

Some more judges making the news after petitions were made by TDs on their ' behalf to the justice minister. Story in todays Times tells of barristers approaching members of the Dail in hope of making judge. Seems very shady to me. Wonder will FG do anything about these findings.

cocoshovel

Barristers and Solicitors....ugh.

ResearchWill

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

I think you mean - "a person who represents himself has a fool for a client".

If I had meant to give a direct quote I would have Done so and referenced it to President Lincoln. I paraphrased, I did not know you had to give the exact quote, but I will remember for next time.

Logical Fallacy

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Before being a 'bookworm' he was a Garda himself!

Does that make him a bacon flavoured bookworm?

ResearchWill

cocoshovel wrote: »

Barristers and Solicitors....ugh.

And your exact issue with me is? Just wondering, is it the fact that I paid for myself to go through a total of 8 years in third level education, without the aid of free fees or grants. Is it the fact that I represent about 20% of my clients for free, and I don't mean no foal no fee I mean free. Is it that my income has been reduced by 50% per year.

ScumLord

ResearchWill wrote: »

And your exact issue with me is? Just wondering, is it the fact that I paid for myself to go through a total of 8 years in third level education, without the aid of free fees or grants. Is it the fact that I represent about 20% of my clients for free, and I don't mean no foal no fee I mean free. Is it that my income has been reduced by 50% per year.

I think it's meant generally towards the profession than at you personally. It's a broken and corrupt system it's not really the gears and cogs fault the poorly made machine doesn't work properly.

ResearchWill

ScumLord wrote: »

I think it's meant generally towards the profession than at you personally. It's a broken and corrupt system it's not really the gears and cogs fault the poorly made machine doesn't work properly.

As a person who works in the system, my opinion is that the system is not broken or corrupt. Some people are, like many a trade and profession, there are some cowboys. But I see everyday people working very hard to protect people. I see everyday ordinary people with good legal representation being protected from large organisations public and private. Many of the rights that people on these boards have, are because lawyers took it upon them selves to fight for them.

I have a friend a solicitor, a day does not go by that he does not receive a gift, from clients, a card or an invite to their home for dinner because he made a difference.

So when someone throws out a comment a "barristers and solicitors uggh" it kinda gets to me. When people say they are only liars, I get annoyed I have never lied to a client or in court and day I do I will leave the profession, and most I know think the same.

I am not saying there are no muppets, with 10000 solicitors and 2500 barristers there are, but most I know really care about the law and their clients.

In relation to barristers approaching TD's to get the nod for the bench, I hate the idea, the Minister for Justice should not have any say in the appointment of judges, it should be a panel and should not be seen as a reward for political allegiance, in saying that I know many a judge appointed, who was a political hack, who in office was very fair and made many a decision against the very political party who appointed him or her.

ScumLord

ResearchWill wrote: »

As a person who works in the system, my opinion is that the system is not broken or corrupt. Some people are, like many a trade and profession, there are some cowboys. But I see everyday people working very hard to protect people. I see everyday ordinary people with good legal representation being protected from large organisations public and private. Many of the rights that people on these boards have, are because lawyers took it upon them selves to fight for them.

I don't think of people as bad or evil so I'm not blaming the people involved in the legal system. The problem as I see it with the legal system is that rather than resolve problems it becomes a competition, I really do think the system as a whole is just not effective, we don't really solve any problems by sending people to prison if anything it trains them up to be better criminals.

CrazyRabbit

ResearchWill wrote: »

A fool takes himself as a client. I am a barrister, I would always employ a solicitor and barrister if I found my self in that situation, you need to have someone who is not emotionally attached to the issue giving you advice.

But I was only talking about needing to take advice from another barrister regarding the law. I didn't mean representing himself in court.

But I thanked your post because it makes a good point.