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Building Surveyors - Do people know enough about them?
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06-10-2011 4:10pm#1
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I think it's more so that the general population are unaware of BS. So they tend to start threads looking for an Architect or an Engineer.
The Architectural Technicians are in a very similar spot and unless they dealt with one, a layperson is unaware that they exist. I've often refered to myself as an Architect in light conversation just to avoid the hassle of explaining the difference. Although, currently that is my job title so not incorrect atm.
I agree with your opinion regarding awareness. I have been called a "poor man's architect", which is just a tad insulting (nothing against architects
).sydthebeat wrote: »i find at standard domestic project level the lines between architect, engineer, technician, surveyors etc become blurred. At domestic level each can interchange onto each others 'specialities' for example architects can sign off rsjs, enginners can design houses, technicians can carry out building surveys, QS's can write up building specs etc. While not preferrable, the scale of the work allows for this amalgamation of services. Also, theres a distinct lack of willingness of clients to pay for individual professional services for what they see as something one professional should be able to provide on a solo basis.
The differences between each becomes a lot cleared on large budget commercial builds.
You are right regarding the blurring of the lines. I do feel though that in some cases that I have come across, a job may have been done by a person of a certain profession where as another profession would have been the better choice but that does boil down to awareness etc again I think?martinn123 wrote: »For those of us who are not one of the Professionals, listed above, can you outline what you can bring to a project, from your particular qualifications.
I note you mention renovations, or extentions, an area I am engaged in as a Contractor.There is for example a thread here querying whether an Architect is required on a simple, no planning required extention. The concensus of posters say its not worth an Architects while getting involved as the fees could possibly not be justified. Where would you fit in to this scenario.
I have to admit before finding this Forum I did not know what an Arch/Tech did, I assumed it was a less qualified type of Architect, ( no offence ).
I agree with syd,as someone doing an extention is looking for one person to carry out all the Design, Certs, Monitoring, etc.
So can you clarify, what you would bring to the table.
I can of course, from my qualifications (I am currently undertaking my chartership, which is a minimum 2 year process and interviews) I can be instructed to do a wide range of jobs, such as;
Planning Permissions Applications
Fire Safety Certificates and Disability Access Certificates
Dilapidations
Schedules of Condition
Schedules of Work
Refurbishment
The complete tendering process from client briefing to drawing/specifications to tendering/comparision of returned tenders to project monitoring of the job.
Space Planning etc.
and as mentioned above Project Management.
edit:
<snipped> you dont need to include fee structure etc as it reads too closely of advertisement
please deal specifically with the services and profession of building surveying
thank you
sydthebeat
Hopefully I have answered your queries? 0 -
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Just for the benefit of anyone reading this who is not in the industry and to remove any ambiguity I'd just like to clarify that BS stands for Building Surveyor and not Bull Shitter
Thank you for clearing that up totallysydthebeat wrote: »That list of services reads like a CV and could come from any Architect, Engineer or Architectural Technician.
What specifically can a BS bring to any project that any of the rest can not? Did you learn specifically how to put a planning application together in college?
What areas is your training specifically in, and how much weighted focus is actually given towards specific areas in comparison to to others.
For example, as an Architectural technician "structures" was an integral subject studied in each year of training, thus offering a greater understanding than say, level surveying which was only studied in one year.
Not sure about the term cv..?
There was an accumulation of topics that we covered in college, for example we had to chose an existing building and design it to a certain change of use so that encompassed the 'design' and 'refurb / adaption' aspects. We had to complete a full planning appraisal and feasibility study on the proposed project then complete full drawings and reports (structures, environmental, mechanical & electrical) to include within a planning application, which went hand in hand with a fire safety certificate application. For another lecturer involved in this we then had to do a detailed schedule of work or bill of quantities and prepae a full tender package including contracts etc.
Regarding dilaps, I undertook this topic, and the specific issue of repair and the warranting of a schedule of condition and negeotiating positions, for my thesis.
I am not saying that other professions cannot bring some of these topics to the client.as syd says, it reads more like a cv. you mention refurbishment for example, but what exactly do you mean? and agree with syd on being specific with what you can bring in particular to the table, that no other professional can.
(I know what a BS does, but you have to look at normal people with no understanding of construction. if someone asks can you do refurbishment, what does it mean?)
If I could direct you to the above answer to the Syd's quote regarding the cv (don't mean to be smart saying that).
Regarding the second half of your post, I would describe it for say defects, a Building Surveyor would come in, investigate, determine the cause, propose recommendations and then monitor work..
In the focused aspect of refurbishment; IMO I would see refurbishment as basicaly, the returning of a building/object/element back to its former glory/condition (people may differ in opinion).
In that event, a Building Surveyor would be contacted and would in turn;
give advice to the client and proceeding from there; designs/plans/tendering/monitoring/certifying.
I am not saying that we are the only ones that can do this but we are not usually included.
For example, in the recent Dept of Ed Schools' Projects during the summer, the work was tendered out through a well known website, and the form said 'a suitable professional, e.g. architect, engineer, q.s etc..." however not building surveyor. I queried this with an individual within the Dept and the reply I got was I don't know what you guys do, you mustn't be suitable if you are not mentioned..!!! F.F.S is the only thing that could come to mind. Our very own Dept of Ed doesn't even know!!! (I don't think anyone needs a hand with F.F.S )Max Moment wrote: »
I do feel however, that there is a fair bit of crossover between all the professions mentioned. We all really do need to know, understand and appreciate elements of each other's profession to do our own job. And, due to experience and in some instances further education, I feel we are competent to undertake certain elements which could be done by any of the professions. Such as I would carry out some dilapidation surveys and tendering for clients etc.
Likewise there are of course other very specific specialist areas that each profession has that I could not do.
You do have a point regarding crossovers. Regarding dilapidation surveys, I have seen some done by certain "professionals" in the construction trade and well lets just say that they wouldn't be the best!! i.e they have not read the lease at all and are literally listing everything within the building, relevant or not..
In response to everyone, I hope I am not coming across as ignorant etc of everyone else's professions, because that is not my intention whatsoever.
I have worked in an architectural practice as well as building surveying firms.
Also, I am no where near knowing everything there is to know, as the way I see it you only stop learning when you go into a certain large box.0 -
Thank you for clearing that up totally
Not sure about the term cv..?
There was an accumulation of topics that we covered in college,
Regarding the second half of your post, I would describe it for say defects, a Building Surveyor would come in, investigate, determine the cause, propose recommendations and then monitor work..
In the focused aspect of refurbishment; IMO I would see refurbishment as basicaly, the returning of a building/object/element back to its former glory/condition (people may differ in opinion).
I am not saying that we are the only ones that can do this but we are not usually included.
In response to everyone, I hope I am not coming across as ignorant etc of everyone else's professions, because that is not my intention whatsoever.
just on that, everyone would have studied a lot of aspects of all parts of construction when in college. I did a heap of law, but I would not be any sort of expert on law. what you do in college, and what happens when you come out and actually work at can be very different. subjects in college give you a base to start off, and you develop it from then on, whichever route you choose. I could have went more into law, but it didnt interest me.
on you second point I picked out there, I know what refurbishment is, but just to describe in more detail what the BS brings to the design team, ie broaden out your brief description, how you survey existing buildings and provide reports and do investigations and suggest what is required for the refurb etc. Most on here will know what a BS brings, but as you point out, a BS is left out of most discussions when someone with no experience in construction goes about discussing what to do. I still get when I say I'm a QS that I'm one of the lads standing out in a field with a tripod. its about explaining in simple terms to people how they can understand your work and involvement in a project.
and you certainly arent coming accross as ignorant to me, all I see is someone who just wants to see his profession more involved and more recognised, absolutley no harm in that. I'd see a BS as invaluable to refurbs and detailing work to be done. And for someone who has bought a house and needs to upgrade it a bit, i'd see a BS as more than capable of doing the design team work and project managing a job.0 -
just on that, everyone would have studied a lot of aspects of all parts of construction when in college. I did a heap of law, but I would not be any sort of expert on law. what you do in college, and what happens when you come out and actually work at can be very different. subjects in college give you a base to start off, and you develop it from then on, whichever route you choose. I could have went more into law, but it didnt interest me.
on you second point I picked out there, I know what refurbishment is, but just to describe in more detail what the BS brings to the design team, ie broaden out your brief description, how you survey existing buildings and provide reports and do investigations and suggest what is required for the refurb etc. Most on here will know what a BS brings, but as you point out, a BS is left out of most discussions when someone with no experience in construction goes about discussing what to do. I still get when I say I'm a QS that I'm one of the lads standing out in a field with a tripod. its about explaining in simple terms to people how they can understand your work and involvement in a project.
and you certainly arent coming accross as ignorant to me, all I see is someone who just wants to see his profession more involved and more recognised, absolutley no harm in that. I'd see a BS as invaluable to refurbs and detailing work to be done. And for someone who has bought a house and needs to upgrade it a bit, i'd see a BS as more than capable of doing the design team work and project managing a job.
With your first point, I was lucky enough to secure work experience with two different surveying firms while still in College for during the holidays etc, so I was able to begin the development of the topics that we had covered in college.
Apologies for not hitting the points regarding refurb..
Regarding surveying buildings, building surveyors offer a number of different surveys ranging from the old 'structural survey' which is now called a 'building survey report' which is basically a indepth investigation of a building WITHOUT the opening up of elements unless requested, to a condition report, which would involve going into a building and outlining every element and its condition and possible recommendations.
Regarding refub;
We would become involved in the refurbishment process when a client realises that their property is becoming dilapidated (in need of repair) or unsuitable for their needs. Or alternatively when they purchase an older property.
we would undertake a measured survey of the property, draw it up using AutoCAD. Obviously we would sit down and chat/advise the client regarding options/possibilities/alternatives to achieve what they want as a finished product.
We then go and draw up these alternative options and review with the client as 'nailing' the brief from the start imo is the most important thing to achieve at the start of the process.
From there we would then complete a schedule of work or bill of quanitites which would clearly state what is required and the processes are involved to be able to send it to contractors for tender. I have been told that the @tighter'/better written the S.o.W, the less movement there is for 'unforeseen' items to arise.
Hopefully I am answering your point or I may be just going around in circles with my description (me own fault )
Regarding the profession becoming more involved, I have queried this with a certain 'organisation' regarding the Dept of Education but have heard nothing back. Also the more that young surveyors can get their name and profession out there in the public domain, the less chance there is for the need to emigrate but don't get me wrong I am not for a minute suggesting that we are the only profession facing the emigration problem.
Lastly good luck and many happy years with your new house 0 -
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