RSA letter to stakeholders on new laws

skelliser

Saw this on the "other" forum:

05 October, 2011


Information Note: New EU Proposal for Motorcycles (including mopeds, trikes and quads)

Dear Stakeholder,
The Road Safety Authority (‘RSA’) has issued the following information note – EU proposal for a Regulation on L-category vehicles. This proposed EU Regulation presents a legal framework for the type approval and market surveillance of motorcycles (including mopeds, trikes and quads) which, once adopted, will replace the existing Type Approval Directive 2002/24/EC.

The objectives of the proposal are:
• to increase vehicle safety for new vehicles entering the market by the introduction of new requirements, such as mandatory anti-lock braking systems fitted to medium and high performance motorcycles, powertrain tampering prevention and automatic headlamp-on feature
• to contribute to a lower, more proportionate share of overall road transport emissions by strengthening emissions standards
• the introduction of market surveillance measures in an effort to combat the selling and registration of vehicles and components which do not comply with the type-approval requirements
• To simplify the current legal framework
A summary of the proposal is available on our website and it includes links to a detailed information note and to the commissions website where additional information is available;
http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Vehicles-and-L...s/Motorcycles/

We would welcome any comments or observations that you may have on the proposed EU Regulation by the 29th October 2011. We would also ask that if you are an organisation, that you make your members aware of this proposal. You can email us at vehiclestandards@rsa.ie, call us on 096-25014 or you may write to us at the following address:

EU Proposal for a Regulation on L-category vehicles
Vehicle Standards
Moy Valley Business Park
Primrose Hill
Ballina
Co. Mayo

Yours sincerely,

Clearly they are pressing ahead of these new regulations if they are sending this out now. Seems they are certain the regulations will be passed.

Time to step up the protest.

Tigger

skelliser wrote: »

Saw this on the "other" forum:



Clearly they are pressing ahead of these new regulations if they are sending this out now. Seems they are certain the regulations will be passed.

Time to step up the protest.

link is http400

CJhaughey

Looking at the National Motorcycle Action Plan 2010-2014 it seems as though they have considered it as a done deal already.
I also note that the proposed 1800-POTHOLE hotline hasn't materialised by the completion date set out in their own action plan.
It looks as though the whole Hi-visibility thing is low hanging fruit.
Easy to propose, easy to enforce and a sure fire way of saying we have done something good.
page 22 section 7.4.2 does say that the action plan has to be accepted by all stakeholders and for there to be shared ownership of it.
I wonder is this for real or just lip service?:rolleyes:

Green_Martian

Can't believe all this [EMAIL="cr@p"]cr@p[/EMAIL] is going on we are living in a "Nanny" State where they tell us what the "Think" would be good for us without even asking the people involved for their opinion. I for one will not wear a hi-vis i have not for some years and that is MY choice not someone elses. I don't i would like the idea of using ABS on a bike esp when in ****ty driving conditons, which will be most of the time in thi country.

Steffano2002

Same as you G-man! F%ck them and their goody two-shoes ideas!

People that come up with this sh!t are old and crippled old farts that haven't got a clue about biking!

F%ck them all!

bladespin

Just had a read of the 'action plan' - there are some god ideas in there but it's full of silly assumptions which completely undermines it im my mind.

Steffano2002

If you come up to me and say "from next year we will ask that all motorcyclists wear motorcycle boots, armoured trousers and jackets, armoured gloves and a helmet less than 5 years old" then I will respect you.

If you come up to me and say "from next year we will ask that all motorcyclists wear fluorescent yellow vests because incompetent drivers seem to be oblivious to them" then I'll think you're a knob...

Simple!

amacca

what can be done to resist this horse****?

1) send a letter to TD ...check...will do asap

2) any online petition available...know there is a uk one but you have to be a uk citizen to sign it

3) any more protest rides being organized?

tell me what else can be done and I will do it...its up to us to stand up in numbers and make our opposition felt or it will be a done deal.....they will go for the low hanging fruit to make themselves look proactive without imo much improvement in road safety for motorcyclists...good old targetting the minority...always does the trick

cant believe aftermarket parts manufacturers/distributors etc are not making some noise + why are motorcycle manufacturers not resisting/voicing opposition ---this will push up the cost of motorcycles and leave them with less customers...independent mechanics etc have a stake in this also they should be doing something



tempted to attend protest rides in just jocks, trainers and the legally required helmet + high viz jacket....

no mention of ppe or reducing vat on safety equipment...wtf.

CJhaughey wrote: »

page 22 section 7.4.2 does say that the action plan has to be accepted by all stakeholders and for there to be shared ownership of it.
I wonder is this for real or just lip service?

the usual planning middle management bullplop - yes it will be just lip service unless enough of a stink is kicked up - it will be produced as a fait accompli in their next eye shatteringly boring policy document and somewhere it will say there was very little opposition to the new provision and it was even welcomed in most quarters unless we provide un-ignorable resistance to their proposals for them.

pencil pushers get off on this measurable targets and tangible results stuff - too bad the real target is just to be seen to be doing something to justify the existence of their new road safety industry rather than actually improving road safety....yet to see proper scientific research taking account of all the variables that proves forcing us to wear high viz will actually reduce accident rate

action planning - planning to plan....talk about a load of pseudo intellectuals justifying their existence with endless reams of red tape and bureaucracy......they should get out from behind their desks and actually attempt to live a life rather than spending their time trapped in the "planning cycle".....I wonder will they look back on their pencil pushing bull**** lives on their deathbeds with even 5% satisfaction.

Green_Martian

Steffano2002 wrote: »

If you come up to me and say "from next year we will ask that all motorcyclists wear motorcycle boots, armoured trousers and jackets, armoured gloves and a helmet less than 5 years old" then I will respect you.

If you come up to me and say "from next year we will ask that all motorcyclists wear fluorescent yellow vests because incompetent drivers seem to be oblivious to them" then I'll think you're a knob...

Simple!

Well said mate, why should we have to suffer cos of someone elses incomptency???? If they brought in decent proposals as you have outlined grand not a problem with it, i would say 90% of bikers have the correct ppe already so no problem.

It is about time that we all stood up to ridiculous laws like these, i don't see the benefit of wearinga Hi-vis more focus should be on dopey [EMAIL="c@ge"]c@ge[/EMAIL] drivers who don't see us. I have had 2 incidents where i was in the left lane of a road and the [EMAIL="c@ge"]c@ge[/EMAIL] driver decided to cut across me and when i beeped i got the usual hand gesture of "Sorry i didint see you" welll guess what Mr/Mrs [EMAIL="c@ge"]c@ge[/EMAIL] driver thats why you have those things called MIRRORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! use the fooking things

bladespin

Green_Martian wrote: »

Well said mate, why should we have to suffer cos of someone elses incomptency???? If they brought in decent proposals as you have outlined grand not a problem with it, i would say 90% of bikers have the correct ppe already so no problem.

It is about time that we all stood up to ridiculous laws like these, i don't see the benefit of wearinga Hi-vis more focus should be on dopey c@ge drivers who don't see us. I have had 2 incidents where i was in the left lane of a road and the c@ge driver decided to cut across me and when i beeped i got the usual hand gesture of "Sorry i didint see you" welll guess what Mr/Mrs c@ge driver thats why you have those things called MIRRORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! use the fooking things

Had a fairly typical car/bike accident last year, driving on a main road came through a junction (had the right of way) when a lady decided to just drive out in front of me, I'm sure every biker on the road couls share the frustration that comes from hearing a yellow bib is supposed to stop a moron who hasn't even bothered to look - BTW I was ina car at the time, a dirty big one with headlights and fogs on, if she didn't see that then there's no hope she'd have seen a bike even if it had been fitted with neon disco balls!

oleras

bladespin wrote: »

Had a fairly typical car/bike accident last year, driving on a main road came through a junction (had the right of way) when a lady decided to just drive out in front of me, I'm sure every biker on the road couls share the frustration that comes from hearing a yellow bib is supposed to stop a moron who hasn't even bothered to look - BTW I was ina car at the time, a dirty big one with headlights and fogs on, if she didn't see that then there's no hope she'd have seen a bike even if it had been fitted with neon disco balls!

She probably didnt see you, due to the fog and all that...;)

peckerhead

bladespin wrote: »

...no hope she'd have seen a bike even if it had been fitted with neon disco balls!

Don't be putting ideas into the cúnts' heads. :eek:

bladespin

oleras wrote: »

She probably didnt see you, due to the fog and all that...;)

Fog on the M3 earlier but it was completely clear when the accident happened, always drove with them on so the car would be more visible lol, guess I was using the RSA's idiotic logic. :rolleyes:

turbodiesel

Green_Martian wrote: »

Well said mate, why should we have to suffer cos of someone elses incomptency???? If they brought in decent proposals as you have outlined grand not a problem with it, i would say 90% of bikers have the correct ppe already so no problem.

It is about time that we all stood up to ridiculous laws like these, i don't see the benefit of wearinga Hi-vis more focus should be on dopey [EMAIL="c@ge"]c@ge[/EMAIL] drivers who don't see us. I have had 2 incidents where i was in the left lane of a road and the [EMAIL="c@ge"]c@ge[/EMAIL] driver decided to cut across me and when i beeped i got the usual hand gesture of "Sorry i didint see you" welll guess what Mr/Mrs [EMAIL="c@ge"]c@ge[/EMAIL] driver thats why you have those things called MIRRORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! use the fooking things

Sorry about this but internet access is a bit "restricted" in work and the other half is working permo nights so kids have bene keeping me busy off the net at home. Any Demo's going ahead, i remember talk about the end oct first week nov.....

Oryx

Protest run on the 29th October, with riders coming from 4 or 5 points around the country into Dublin city. You probably need to check locally for points where you can join this. Also I heard of plans for a run to the govt offices in Mayo? United Bikers of Ireland is the name attached to those runs. They have passed petition sheets on to bike shops etc, but I dont have any contact info.

My problem with these laws is they have been dreamt up by people who dont understand bikes, have never ridden or probably even sat on one, and just think they are dirty, dangerous things. Its an attempt to regulate them out of existence.

sleepysniper

I can post up a copy of the petition for the United Bikers of Ireland if lads want to hand them into different places?

sleepysniper

Ok lads Iv attached the United Bikers of Ireland petition and a document explaining the laws the EU/RSA are trying to bring in explained in laymans terms.

Put these up in places where you think it'll get the most feedback. i.e. bike shops and the likes.

PM a scanned copy of the Signed Petitions back to me before Friday week.
Or alternatively if you know someone going to the protest in Dublin on the 29th you could give it to them to bring up.

Thanks in Advance.:)

oleras

sleepysniper wrote: »

Ok lads Iv attached the United Bikers of Ireland petition and a document explaining the laws the EU/RSA are trying to bring in explained in laymans terms.

Put these up in places where you think it'll get the most feedback. i.e. bike shops and the likes.

PM a scanned copy of the Signed Petitions back to me before Friday week.
Or alternatively if you know someone going to the protest in Dublin on the 29th you could give it to them to bring up.

Thanks in Advance.:)

I appreciate the effort you went to but just one thing, can you provide a citation for the piece in the lay mans proposals under, NO home servicing ?

Thanks.

Victor

bladespin wrote: »

Just had a read of the 'action plan' - there are some god ideas in there but it's full of silly assumptions which completely undermines it im my mind.

Then you need to inform them that they are silly assumptions and why they are silly assumptions and what would be a better way to move forward.

This thread reminds me of something I saw yesterday. A helmetted moped driver who wasn't even wearing gloves. How about coming up with a minimum set of equipment that you can agree upon?

Whinging won't get anyone anywhere. Thoughtful action might.

oleras

Victor wrote: »

Then you need to inform them that they are silly assumptions and why they are silly assumptions and what would be a better way to move forward.

This thread reminds me of something I saw yesterday. A helmetted moped driver who wasn't even wearing gloves. How about coming up with a minimum set of equipment that you can agree upon?

Whinging won't get anyone anywhere. Thoughtful action might.

Have you put your thoughts on PPE to the RSA ?

Edit: that was done in my best southern accent....lol

Victor

oleras wrote: »

Have you put your thoughts on PPE to the RSA ?

I will be doing so next week.

BlackWizard

It would be great if someone could provide a template letter or email that we could send off to a list of people about this.

I'm really not informed enough to be writing anything like that.

Or if someone could show us what they are sending to the RSA.

Hotblack Desiato

Victor wrote: »

A helmetted moped driver who wasn't even wearing gloves.

So what?

I wear all the gear all the time, but that's my choice and my choice alone, and the law has no right to dictate to me what protective clothing I must wear at all times, the lid law is bad enough!

Most cyclists don't wear gloves either! (or helmets...)

Where is this silly nanny-statism going to end? Gardai pulling over all motorcyclists (and cyclists?) looking for CE-approved, homologation-stamped clothing from head to toe? What would be appropriate for pedestrians, seeing as they're by far the most vulnerable road users of all?

Ridiculous. It's as if the concept of personal freedom, where an adult has the right to make their own decisions and accept the consequences, never really caught on in this country..

Victor

ninja900 wrote: »

So what?

Consider degloving accidents (where the flesh is ripped away from the skeleton). The cost-benefit ratio is very much skewed towards wearing gloves, full length trousers, etc.

Caution - image (not a photograph) may be upsetting: [noparse]http://www.doereport.com/generateexhibit.php?ID=143&ExhibitKeywordsRaw=&TL=&A=[/noparse]

Lots of pedal cyclists do wear gloves. However, motor cyclists tend to travel at higher speeds than pedal cyclists and are at greater risk.

Hotblack Desiato

Yes I know (which is why I'm ATGATT) but that wasn't the point.

carsQhere

BlackWizard wrote: »

It would be great if someone could provide a template letter or email that we could send off to a list of people about this.

I'm really not informed enough to be writing anything like that.

Or if someone could show us what they are sending to the RSA.

Try here: http://www.magireland.org/category/campaigns/hiviz/

Simples :-)

bladespin

Victor wrote: »

Then you need to inform them that they are silly assumptions and why they are silly assumptions and what would be a better way to move forward.

This thread reminds me of something I saw yesterday. A helmetted moped driver who wasn't even wearing gloves. How about coming up with a minimum set of equipment that you can agree upon?

Whinging won't get anyone anywhere. Thoughtful action might.

I already have, the RSA and I have had correspondence over the years and not just on the action plan, the disappointing thing is how they refuse to listen, but thanks for the lecture :rolleyes:.

Hotblack Desiato

Chip away at our freedoms bit by bit, and eventually the ultimate step of taking our right to ride away from us altogether won't seem like such a big deal...

Oryx

ninja900 wrote: »

Chip away at our freedoms bit by bit, and eventually the ultimate step of taking our right to ride away from us altogether won't seem like such a big deal...

They won't ever take the right away openly. It will be removed by excessive regulation which will discourage new riders from ever getting their first bike and the industry will die out. Its already started, with high costs and the recession. Ask any of the bike distributors in Ireland. The ar5e has fallen out of new sales. Young riders just aren't there. These new rules will be the final nail in the biking coffin.