Shocking story.

Azure_sky

A transgender woman has revealed how her desperation for sex reassignment surgery led her to try and cut off her genitals.Kirsty Cass, of Crawley, West Sussex, says she almost bled to death after using a Stanley knife to partially sever her penis.


http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2011/09/28/transgender-woman-tells-of-diy-surgery/

Morlar

Wackjob.

Ambersky

So sad that it got to the stage that she felt such desperation.
To do that a person has to be feeling truly desperate.

Annasopra

Morlar wrote: »

Wackjob.

If you're not going to add anything constructive to the discussion then stay out of it

Morlar

mango salsa wrote: »

If you're not going to add anything constructive to the discussion then stay out of it

That is expressing a perfectly legitimate viewpoint imo. Any person who decides to mutilate their genitals via stanley knife is a wackjob. You can convolute and equivocate all you like but that is what it essentially boils down to. I also don't accept that taxpayers should therefore be required to fund body modification from such a mentally unbalanced individual.

Azure_sky

Morlar wrote: »

That is expressing a perfectly legitimate viewpoint imo. Any person who decides to mutilate their genitals via stanley knife is a wackjob. You can convolute and equivocate all you like but that is what it essentially boils down to. I also don't accept that taxpayers should therefore be required to fund body modification from such a mentally unbalanced individual.

Read the science and don't be so willfully ignorant.

The present findings of somatostatin neuronal sex differences in the BSTc and its sex reversal in the transsexual brain clearly support the paradigm that in transsexuals sexual differentiation of the brain and genitals may go into opposite directions and point to a neurobiological basis of gender identity disorder.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/85/5/2034.full

Annasopra

Morlar wrote: »

That is expressing a perfectly legitimate viewpoint imo. Any person who decides to mutilate their genitals via stanley knife is a wackjob. You can convolute and equivocate all you like but that is what it essentially boils down to. I also don't accept that taxpayers should therefore be required to fund body modification from such a mentally unbalanced individual.

Banned for trolling

deirdre_dub

Morlar wrote: »

That is expressing a perfectly legitimate viewpoint imo..

That is because your "opinion" (if that is what it is) is based on gross, utter ignorance on the realities of the lives of trans people.

If this woman is a "wackjob", then so is every trans person who feels the same way about their genitals. Thankfully most of us get enough support, and have access to enough emotional and other help, to ride out the abusive medical system to get surgery from qualified doctors.

This woman didn't have that help. And you are describing her as a "wackjob" because of it. fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuu :mad:

KnifeWRENCH

Morlar wrote: »

I also don't accept that taxpayers should therefore be required to fund body modification from such a mentally unbalanced individual.

Presumably the best cure for this mental unbalance would be for her to have the surgery? Whether the surgery should be funded by the taxpayer or not is another matter but either way but she's clearly in a lot of distress to resort to something like this and denying her the surgery may cause her to do something even worse to herself next time.

Plenty of people self harm due to depression, this case is somewhat more extreme but the underlying reasons are similar. I don't think it's fair to dismiss everyone in that situation as a "wackjob".

Annasopra

Please refrain from taking the thread off topic. Morlar has been banned - his contributions are now off topic

deirdre_dub

mango salsa wrote: »

Please refrain from taking the thread off topic. Morlar has been banned - his contributions are now off topic

I didn't see the ban before I hit "post". Waiting, now, for the chorus of "censorship" :rolleyes: .

So upon reading this article, it seems that the support that this woman didn't have was that she didn't know about, or couldn't access, the correct path to surgery.

OakeyDokey

Such a sad story I hope she gets all the help she needs.

apache

Morlar wrote: »

That is expressing a perfectly legitimate viewpoint imo. Any person who decides to mutilate their genitals via stanley knife is a wackjob. You can convolute and equivocate all you like but that is what it essentially boils down to. I also don't accept that taxpayers should therefore be required to fund body modification from such a mentally unbalanced individual.

that is a completely valid viewpoint. its an opinion and this is a opinion board no? i don't see it as off topic either.

rainbow kirby

apache wrote: »

that is a completely valid viewpoint. its an opinion and this is a opinion board no? i don't see it as off topic either.

Mango Salsa already stated not to take this discussion further off-topic.

easychair

Self mutilation is a well known and observed psychological condition, and we are all aware of those who cut themselves and so on. I'd have thought self mutilation which is expressed by cutting off ones own genitals is just another form of the same phenomenon.

Transgender people are no more exempt from psychological phenomenona than non transgender people. To have nearly died as a result of trying to cut off ones genitals with a Stanley knife does suggest a slight lack of balance. Even if one is desperate, ones desperation is not going to be helped by the act of cutting off ones genitals with a stanley knife, and the high chance of severe blood loss leading to death, or septicaemia or other complications.

One can feel great sympathy for individuals caught in the situation of waiting for sex realignment surgery, especially when they want the health service to pay for it in a time when there are such pressures for resources.

deirdre_dub

easychair wrote: »

To have nearly died as a result of trying to cut off ones genitals with a Stanley knife does suggest a slight lack of balance.

Umm - no, it doesn't. It suggests severe gender dysphoria, no more, no less.

easychair

deirdre_dub wrote: »

Umm - no, it doesn't. It suggests severe gender dysphoria, no more, no less.

That's for each of us to judge for ourselves. You are quite at liberty to judge that someone who takes a stanley knife and attempts to cut off their genitals is balanced. I am at liberty to judge that someone who does that is less than balanced, and we can all make up our own minds.

Plautus

And are you a psychiatrist? Because not all opinions are of equal value. 'Balance' has no medical meaning in psychiatry. The presence or absence of it it also doesn't invalidate the person's right to receive gender-reassignment surgery in the long run after they've been stabilised. For what it's worth, the balance of probabilities here suggests that the self-mutilation is co-morbid with gender dysphoria.

Morlar got banned for a highly judgemental swipe at a person in distress - it was not fair comment.

easychair

Plautus wrote: »

And are you a psychiatrist? Because not all opinions are of equal value. 'Balance' has no medical meaning in psychiatry. The presence or absence of it it also doesn't invalidate the person's right to receive gender-reassignment surgery in the long run after they've been stabilised. For what it's worth, the balance of probabilities here suggests that the self-mutilation is co-morbid with gender dysphoria.

Morlar got banned for a highly judgemental swipe at a person in distress - it was not fair comment.

If you are saying that only psychiatrists are allowed to have a view whether someone taking a stanley knife to their genitals and cutting them off is balanced, then I don't agree. If you were a psychiatrist, you'd not attempt to make a diagnosis on the basis of an internet thread, and no member of the medical profession I know would do that.

Are you and English professor? If so, you'd know there is no difference between being judgemental and being highly judgemental, as both mean the same thing.

This is not a forum restricted to psychiatrists (or english professors) and none of us need to be lectured that our opinions are not valid.

Plautus

easychair wrote: »

If you are saying that only psychiatrists are allowed to have a view whether someone taking a stanley knife to their genitals and cutting them off is balanced, then I don't agree. If you were a psychiatrist, you'd not attempt to make a diagnosis on the basis of an internet thread, and no member of the medical profession I know would do that.

Are you and English professor? If so, you'd know there is no difference between being judgemental and being highly judgemental, as both mean the same thing.

This is not a forum restricted to psychiatrists (or english professors) and none of us need to be lectured that our opinions are not valid.

I'm just telling you that using 'balance' in an un-medical way and then deciding who should and shouldn't get gender re-assignment surgery accordingly is a bit callous at best and just ignorant at worst. So your opinion will be weighted for value accordingly. Dysphoria is also a recognised condition. Do you think, in your wildest dreams, that it might be at play here and that part of the treatment is expeditious reassignment surgery? Or are we just going to focus on consigning the person as a 'mutilator'.

Highly judgemental? Would you prefer I said blatantly judgemental? Ignorantly judgemental? I'm happy with either re-formulation.

easychair

Plautus wrote: »

So your opinion will be weighted for value accordingly.

Highly judgemental? Would you prefer I said blatantly judgemental? Ignorantly judgemental? I'm happy with either re-formulation.

In Cornell university there is an electron microscope so powerful that it can see the atom, the very building block which makes up our universe. If I had that microscope now, I would be unable to locate my interest in how you decide to weigh up anyone's opinion on any subject whatever. (apols to F. Crane)

Likewise, I have no interest or opinion or preference as to your choice of words.

Plautus

Clearly you do value your own opinion very highly: so why don't you illumine everyone as to how this is self-mutilation, not gender dysphoria, and that the person doesn't need expeditious treatment funded out of the national health system?

Annasopra

easychair wrote: »

Transgender people are no more exempt from psychological phenomenona than non transgender people.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Are saying that transgender and cisgender people are equally susceptible to psychological problems?

easychair

Plautus wrote: »

Clearly you do value your own opinion very highly: so why don't you illumine everyone as to how this is self-mutilation, not gender dysphoria, and that the person doesn't need expeditious treatment funded out of the national health system?

Illumine (sic) everyone? I didn't realise you see yourself as a spokesman for others here.

I've already given my opinion as to the value of making a diagnosis over the internet, and you seem stubbornly persistent in trying to get me to make a diagnosis, of a stranger, over the internet, and you seem to have ignored my comments about that earlier.

I made one comment, that someone who takes a stanley knife and tries to cut off their own genitals, is not balanced. You seem to resent that comment as it's not a medical diagnosis, and not a medical term, and you seem to now see it as your mission to get me to agree with you, and force your opinion that only medical terms be used on these threads.

I have already told you that I have no interest in that sort of verbal tennis. You seem to want to "win" here , or maybe have the last word, and I am delighted for you to claim victory, if that is what you want, and to let you have the last word also.

easychair

mango salsa wrote: »

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Are saying that transgender and cisgender people are equally susceptible to psychological problems?

No, I never claimed that, and never would. I merely pointed out that being transgender doesn't preclude one from being unbalanced, and more than being a motor mechanic might.

Transgender people are just like everyone else, with the exception that they are transgender.

Plautus

easychair wrote: »

Illumine (sic) everyone? I didn't realise you see yourself as a spokesman for others here.

I've already given my opinion as to the value of making a diagnosis over the internet, and you seem stubbornly persistent in trying to get me to make a diagnosis, of a stranger, over the internet, and you seem to have ignored my comments about that earlier.

I made one comment, that someone who takes a stanley knife and tries to cut off their own genitals, is not balanced. You seem to resent that comment as it's not a medical diagnosis, and not a medical term, and you seem to now see it as your mission to get me to agree with you, and force your opinion that only medical terms be used on these threads.

I have already told you that I have no interest in that sort of verbal tennis. You seem to want to "win" here , or maybe have the last word, and I am delighted for you to claim victory, if that is what you want, and to let you have the last word also.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/illumine

And my suggestion to you is simply to heed your own advice and not to provide an opinion where you're not really qualified to and to realise that, accordingly, your opinion isn't worth a whole lot. Especially when many here have an intimate acquaintance with gender dysphoria.

Have the 'last word' all you like. Post right after this!

magicbastarder

Plautus wrote: »

And are you a psychiatrist? Because not all opinions are of equal value.

so anyone who isn't a psychiatrist should not be able to express an opinion.

anyone attempting serious, non-emergency surgery on themselves cannot be said to be of sound mind. stating that is not to say i don't feel sorry for the person.

deirdre_dub

easychair wrote: »

If you are saying that only psychiatrists are allowed to have a view whether someone taking a stanley knife to their genitals and cutting them off is balanced, then I don't agree.

So your opinion on the theory of relativity is as valuable as the opinion of a trained physicist? I don't think so.

In any case, who is in a better position to determine if someone is "mentally balanced" than a psychiatrist?!

Let's call this out for what it is. It is "anyone who desperately needs to see their genitals removed / changed is mentally unbalanced". That is transphobic.

Plautus

magicbastarder wrote: »

so anyone who isn't a psychiatrist should not be able to express an opinion.

They can, just don't expect that opinion to be taken as seriously.

deirdre_dub

easychair wrote: »

Transgender people are just like everyone else, with the exception that they are transgender.

And what does it mean "that they are transgender"?

It means, for instance, that some of us have enough gender dysphoria that taking a stanley knife to a penis is a perfectly valid and sane response to said dysphoria.

deirdre_dub

magicbastarder wrote: »

anyone attempting serious, non-emergency surgery on themselves cannot be said to be of sound mind.

How do you know this wasn't a "non-emergency" situation?

Clearly it was - otherwise, it wouldn't have been done.

deirdre_dub

WORD UP!

What seems to have happened here is someone was living with severe gender dysphoria.

Clearly many of the people who are posting here don't understand what "gender dysphoria" means. If you don't understand the phenomenon, then you shouldn't be posting here! Why? Well, for the same reason that someone who never studied physics shouldn't post in a thread on the theory of relativity.

Unless you are educated on the subject, then your "opinions" are nothing but drivel, and likely inflammatory and hurtful drivel. So just don't do it. If you must post here, educate yourself on the subject at hand first!

easychair

deirdre_dub wrote: »

It is "anyone who desperately needs to see their genitals removed / changed is mentally unbalanced". That is transphobic.

I'm afraid you are claiming I said something I never said. As often happens in these conversations, anyone who has a different opinion is labelled "transphobic".

What I said was unbalanced was the act of taking a stanley knife to this persons own genitals. From that you seem to claim I have said that anyone who wants to have their genitals removed is equally unbalanced, which is not what I said, or think.

It's a shame you have to hurl the "transphobic" label, but it does indicate that you are not prepared to have a rational debate.

deirdre_dub

easychair wrote: »

What I said was unbalanced was the act of taking a stanley knife to this persons own genitals.

You clearly don't understand the phenomenon of gender dysphoria. As per what I said above - please educate yourself so that you stop posting such drivel.

magicbastarder

deirdre_dub wrote: »

How do you know this wasn't a "non-emergency" situation?

Clearly it was - otherwise, it wouldn't have been done.

an act which is so clearly hazardous and likely to lead to death is not an act of someone thinking clearly.
on a purely medical level, it clearly wasn't an emergency.
if the dysphoria was severe enough to cause the person to attempt this, i would argue that the severity of the dysphoria has affected her judgment to the point where it cannot be trusted.

as i mentioned - i feel sorry for her, and would not wish what she went through on anyone; but that doesn't mean it was an act performed in complete possession of her faculties.

anyway, i'll bow out now, i don't wish to contribute to any bad feeling.

deirdre_dub

easychair wrote: »

It's a shame you have to hurl the "transphobic" label, but it does indicate that you are not prepared to have a rational debate.

It's a shame that you have to post such drivel on the subject, but it does indicate that you are unwilling (deliberately so?) to educate yourself.

Annasopra

Locked for the moment until I discuss this with the other mods.