The decline of the bar trade in Ireland (bar staff)

Tiocfaidh Armani

It used to be a well paid trade and suppose that was an excuse for some of the high prices but now looking at jobs.ie it's a job for the minimum wage and the standard of bar staff for me has fallen big time, obviously for that reason. It's a shame because you pay top money in Ireland for your drink you should get well paid well trained bar people who take pride in their job. I used to do it years ago but the hours got to me so jacked it in. Anybody else noticing its decline.

youtube!

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

It used to be a well paid trade and suppose that was an excuse for some of the high prices but now looking at jobs.ie it's a job for the minimum wage and the standard of bar staff for me has fallen big time, obviously for that reason. It's a shame because you pay top money in Ireland for your drink you should get well paid well trained bar people who take pride in their job. I used to do it years ago but the hours got to me so jacked it in. Anybody else noticing its decline.

Man walks on moon....

Temptamperu

Oh poor you having to take a pay cut

4leto

Fret not I have just made plans to support your trade tonight.

Chuck Stone

I used to pilot horse carriages.

Damn cars.

Snakeblood

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

It used to be a well paid trade and suppose that was an excuse for some of the high prices but now looking at jobs.ie it's a job for the minimum wage and the standard of bar staff for me has fallen big time, obviously for that reason. It's a shame because you pay top money in Ireland for your drink you should get well paid well trained bar people who take pride in their job. I used to do it years ago but the hours got to me so jacked it in. Anybody else noticing its decline.

Not once in the past five years have I seen a barman throw a bottle in the air, and turn around, catch it, then fling it over to Bryan Brown who effortlessly mixes a drink from the bottle, while music plays. Shocking state of affairs.

4leto

Not really to be honest, not up in Dublin anyway. I have just notice there are less people in them during the week and they are not as crowded as they use to be at weekends.

But if I had the money I wouldn't buy a pub these days, once upon a time in Ireland, to buy a pub was a guaranteed way of making good money.

Tiocfaidh Armani

Temptamperu wrote: »

Oh poor you having to take a pay cut

I'm well out of it, but noticed the standard of bar staff has declined obviously due to it not been treated as a trade anymore. Jeez sorry for even commenting on it.:rolleyes:

DonalK1981

If there are any barmen looking for a change where they can in effect be their own boss, there is a licensed premisis available in the Algarve region of Portugal.

It needs a lot of work and probably some investment to at least stock it, plus a security deposit.

Reckon anybody would give it a go?

Tiocfaidh Armani

Snakeblood wrote: »

Not once in the past five years have I seen a barman throw a bottle in the air, and turn around, catch it, then fling it over to Bryan Brown who effortlessly mixes a drink from the bottle, while music plays. Shocking state of affairs.

It's not really about that though. It's about people experienced who can pull a good pint and serve people quickly and take more than one blooming order at a time.

Davidth88

Actually it's something I notice when I go home to England

The bar staff there are almost always terrible

They can only serve 1 person at a time, if you order more than one drink they go into ' tilt ' mode .

By and large the bar staff in Irish pubs are much better.

of course by and large I am excluding the places like Temple ( lets rip tourists off and pretend we are oirish ) Bar

Hannibal Smith

I think bar staff are great, I dunno how they do it...especially in a packed up on a saturday night with lines of people shouting their orders at them. How they remember what you ask for is beyond me Most of the time they're so lovely and generally a good laugh. Yay for the bar men and women

StephenHendry

its not exactly the greatest job in the world, the pay they got in the boom times certainly compesated for that. there wasn't a need to develop great social skills, they could be ignorant, rude etc. on occasion but it didnt affect trade. there are good barmen of course who do a very good job regardless of the pay.

what i dislike most is the 'poor me' attitude of publicans atm when they should be putting every effort in to looking after the punters that still go in for their regular pint. there are plenty who do this and do it well but there are a few still content in blaming others for their problems (i.e. supermarkets, off licences etc.) instead of putting in the effort which includes making sure their barstaff aren't behaving like pr****

FetchTheGin

Prices have to go down. It's simple.

BraziliaNZ

Davidth88 wrote: »

Actually it's something I notice when I go home to England

The bar staff there are almost always terrible

They can only serve 1 person at a time, if you order more than one drink they go into ' tilt ' mode .

By and large the bar staff in Irish pubs are much better.

of course by and large I am excluding the places like Temple ( lets rip tourists off and pretend we are oirish ) Bar

The bar staff here in the UK are SHOCKING. Serve one person at a time, keep your head down all the time to avoid eye contact, have no idea who's next...
Such idiots! I've seen so many people going nuts in bars here because of poor bar staff. The place might be busy and there could be a few of them totally unabled to manage the bar - recently the bar girl goes "WHO'S NEXT" - and someon said "IT'S YOUR F**KING JOB TO KNOW WHO'S NEXT!!!" - that about explains it all. I miss the professionalism in Ireland, they are USELESS in London and anywhere else in UK I've been.

goose2005

Service is appalling - even in a soup kitchen they smile and say hello.

Hannibal Smith

StephenHendry wrote: »

its not exactly the greatest job in the world, the pay they got in the boom times certainly compesated for that. there wasn't a need to develop great social skills, they could be ignorant, rude etc. on occasion but it didnt affect trade. there are good barmen of course who do a very good job regardless of the pay.

what i dislike most is the 'poor me' attitude of publicans atm when they should be putting every effort in to looking after the punters that still go in for their regular pint. there are plenty who do this and do it well but there are a few still content in blaming others for their problems (i.e. supermarkets, off licences etc.) instead of putting in the effort which includes making sure their barstaff aren't behaving like pr****

I agree, to a certain extent. I don't know why pubs aren't doing more to get trade in. They blame supermarkets and off licenses, but there are pubs that do really good food and stuff that are still quite busy. So it's all about knowing how the market has changed I think and adapting your business if you want to stay in it.

ShooterSF

There are plenty of people in the "trade" these days who don't want to be a bar person and are either stuck there or putting themselves through an education so yes standards will slip as they don't care. That's life!

People can go on about juggling bottles and making extravagent cocktails but a good barperson will aknowledge your presence at the bar if there'a queue, take your order asap and may even remember it if you've been up a few times, finishing naming the drinks for you if it's a big round and you're forgetting one or two. All the while looking like they are in good form and maybe having a laugh if it's quiet with customers and other staff.
It's the ability to be good at being casual and jovial and relaxed whilst also being good at professionally and quickly serving customers and being good at swithcing instantly from one to the other!

mikemac

I was struggling for a student job and did a bar course with CERT. CERT are kind of like FÁS only they are superb and were run by Fáilte Ireland.
Loved that course and the tutor was a retired barman. Learned lots from it and got sorted with a job

Even now I'd be in the bar and notice little things that I didn't before.
Like I hate when the barman uses a glass to scoop ice. Glasses chip and you can't see glass in ice.
Small things like that.

Korvanica

Used to work in a abr too, good pay, **** hours..

What you doin saturday night? .. workin.. GAH!

4leto

I sympathise with anyone who trade and industry is dying a death, but OP I don't see it getting any better, they have succeeded in mc Donaldising the Bar trade.

MrStuffins

One thing i've never understood is how being a barman could be considered a trade?

It's pulling pints and doing general bar stuff, hardly a trade!

jetsonx

MrStuffins wrote: »

One thing i've never understood is how being a barman could be considered a trade?

It's pulling pints and doing general bar stuff, hardly a trade!

Go to some countries in continental Europe and its taken very seriously and often with a lot of pride.

4leto

jetsonx wrote: »

Go to some countries in continental Europe and its taken very seriously and often with a lot of pride.

And parts of the USA as well.

MrStuffins

jetsonx wrote: »

Go to some countries in continental Europe and its taken very seriously and often with a lot of pride.

Yeah but pride does not equal skill.

I worked in a bar for years. I'm pretty sure it took me much less time to prepare for and become good at my job than it did for your average electrician, plumber or carpenter! It's not a difficult job to master in fairness.

I remember being offered an "Apprenticeship" as a teenager when I worked as a lounge boy! Pffffft!

Logical Fallacy

MrStuffins wrote: »

Yeah but pride does not equal skill.

I worked in a bar for years. I'm pretty sure it took me much less time to prepare for and become good at my job than it did for your average electrician, plumber or carpenter! It's not a difficult job to master in fairness.

I remember being offered an "Apprenticeship" as a teenager when I worked as a lounge boy! Pffffft!

I guess it really depends. If it's just slogging pints it's not that hard, if it's all the fancy cocktail **** that hen parties get wet for then there is some skill involved.

Mainly the skill in avoiding being raped.

Leftist

It's the johnny foreigners that are bringing the trade to it's knees. Years ago you would walk into a pub and be greated with a stocky gentleman with his white sleeves rolled up, dying to hear your troubles. Auld lads would wait for you to arrive and break out in a great story and everyone was into the gaa.
But now you've got africans and eastern europeans, whose arrival I may add, co-incided with the rise in alcohol prices.
They work 60 hours at a time for a packet of crisps or baby skin whatever it is they eat, and force irish people out of jobs for no other reason than they are polish and it is their culture to hate our ways.
My mate who works for a living tells me half the price of cheap polish beer (Zyczu... Tyskie etc) goes back to poland to pay for shiploads of slovakians to come over here and take our school places.
I know this sound racist but they are killing the country.

StephenHendry

Leftist wrote: »

It's the johnny foreigners that are bringing the trade to it's knees. Years ago you would walk into a pub and be greated with a stocky gentleman with his white sleeves rolled up, dying to hear your troubles. Auld lads would wait for you to arrive and break out in a great story and everyone was into the gaa.
But now you've got africans and eastern europeans, whose arrival I may add, co-incided with the rise in alcohol prices.
They work 60 hours at a time for a packet of crisps or baby skin whatever it is they eat, and force irish people out of jobs for no other reason than they are polish and it is their culture to hate our ways.
My mate who works for a living tells me half the price of cheap polish beer (Zyczu... Tyskie etc) goes back to poland to pay for shiploads of slovakians to come over here and take our school places.
I know this sound racist but they are killing the country.

you've a good point there, agree with a lot of this. anyway i don't think that a lot of irish workers either care or more importantly service type jobs like barwork anymore. hence foreigners are willing to work even in appalling conditions (sometimes) , for low wages even for the sake of having a job. now a lot of these are probably illegal , therefore complaining about work conditions isnt' an option.

secondly as you say, the foreign workers dont' have the natural gift of the gab that the irish bar workers have in terms of the conversational aspect which is not what you want when you pay 6e for a pint nearly in temple bar. gone are the days when the barman was an agony uncle so to speak to being a worker who just has the job to pay the bills and probably hates every minute of the job

wild_cat

Leftist wrote: »

It's the johnny foreigners that are bringing the trade to it's knees. Years ago you would walk into a pub and be greated with a stocky gentleman with his white sleeves rolled up, dying to hear your troubles. Auld lads would wait for you to arrive and break out in a great story and everyone was into the gaa.
But now you've got africans and eastern europeans, whose arrival I may add, co-incided with the rise in alcohol prices.
They work 60 hours at a time for a packet of crisps or baby skin whatever it is they eat, and force irish people out of jobs for no other reason than they are polish and it is their culture to hate our ways.
My mate who works for a living tells me half the price of cheap polish beer (Zyczu... Tyskie etc) goes back to poland to pay for shiploads of slovakians to come over here and take our school places.
I know this sound racist but they are killing the country.

I take it that your username has nothing to do with your political beliefs so....

BraziliaNZ

wild_cat wrote: »

I take it that your username has nothing to do with your political beliefs so....

Surely it's a wind up?

mikemac

Leftist is just having a bit of fun, just a wind-up

Posted some sensible and decent posts in the other Irish workers thread

4leto

I seldom talk to the bar staff as in anything past niceties, so I don't really care who dishes up my Hino, just like I don't care who checks out my groceries.

Tiocfaidh Armani

FetchTheGin wrote: »

Prices have to go down. It's simple.

How's that gonna improve the quality of bar staff?

StephenHendry

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

How's that gonna improve the quality of bar staff?

its not but it would be a good start

mcmoustache

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Surely it's a wind up?

Maybe.

It sounds like the sort of trolling that I get up to sometimes. It's subtle and hard to tell from a serious post but there are hints of satire in there - eg dried baby skin. It's written well by an intelligent writer but the content is quite absurd and extreme.

For now I'm going to assume that Leftist is a rather good troll and thank the post accordingly.

I thought it was quite funny.

Leftist

StephenHendry wrote: »

you've a good point there, agree with a lot of this. anyway i don't think that a lot of irish workers either care or more importantly service type jobs like barwork anymore. hence foreigners are willing to work even in appalling conditions (sometimes) , for low wages even for the sake of having a job. now a lot of these are probably illegal , therefore complaining about work conditions isnt' an option.

secondly as you say, the foreign workers dont' have the natural gift of the gab that the irish bar workers have in terms of the conversational aspect which is not what you want when you pay 6e for a pint nearly in temple bar. gone are the days when the barman was an agony uncle so to speak to being a worker who just has the job to pay the bills and probably hates every minute of the job

You've hit the nail on the head here pal.

I don't mind them in the shops (as long as no irish people are let wanting for that position) but when I go to Temple Bar I expect to converse with bar staff. They are just completely obsessed with work and never have to just stop, bang, right in the middle of a Saturday night and take time for a chat about utter tripe.


Ice runs through their veins.

Plazaman

MrStuffins wrote: »

Yeah but pride does not equal skill.

I worked in a bar for years. I'm pretty sure it took me much less time to prepare for and become good at my job than it did for your average electrician, plumber or carpenter! It's not a difficult job to master in fairness.

I remember being offered an "Apprenticeship" as a teenager when I worked as a lounge boy! Pffffft!

Have to disagree there. Sure if you're only a Counter Server then you're only the fob/optic jockey. But a Barman (male or female) used to mean the all rounder in the Public House from stock taking to ordering to customer service to hygiene management to customers therapist etc etc. Definitely a Management type of role and not learned in a couple of weeks or months.

Leftist wrote: »

It's the johnny foreigners that are bringing the trade to it's knees......They work 60 hours at a time for a packet of crisps or baby skin whatever it is they eat, and force irish people out of jobs for no other reason.....

Leave them alone, my Baby Skin delicatissen and delivery service is booming (not schilling Mods, honest www.plazasbabyskinculineryservice.com)

StephenHendry

Leftist wrote: »

You've hit the nail on the head here pal.

I don't mind them in the shops (as long as no irish people are let wanting for that position) but when I go to Temple Bar I expect to converse with bar staff. They are just completely obsessed with work and never have to just stop, bang, right in the middle of a Saturday night and take time for a chat about utter tripe.


Ice runs through their veins.

exactly. its as if some of the pubs don't give a toss if they go under or not.

Tiocfaidh Armani

StephenHendry wrote: »

its not but it would be a good start

Why? Lesser prices will improve the bar staff? I'm all for lesser prices but that makes no sense.

Tiocfaidh Armani

Leftist wrote: »

You've hit the nail on the head here pal.

I don't mind them in the shops (as long as no irish people are let wanting for that position) but when I go to Temple Bar I expect to converse with bar staff. They are just completely obsessed with work and never have to just stop, bang, right in the middle of a Saturday night and take time for a chat about utter tripe.


Ice runs through their veins.

I know you're on the wind up but who mentioned foreigners that you're trying to be smart about for?

StephenHendry

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

Why? Lesser prices will improve the bar staff? I'm all for lesser prices but that makes no sense.

yes but also pubs need to start saying to some of their barstaff to cop the fcuk on if they can't be bothered making an effort to be nice, friendly to punters. you'd swear you were trying to rob the pub at gunpoint with the looks that some barworkers give you

Tiocfaidh Armani

StephenHendry wrote: »

yes but also pubs need to start saying to some of their barstaff to cop the fcuk on if they can't be bothered making an effort to be nice, friendly to punters. you'd swear you were trying to rob the pub at gunpoint with the looks that some barworkers give you

I agree, had it the weekend in the Bohemians in Phibsboro the weekend, utter grumps auld sh*ts. For me it passed the time having the craic and joke with the customers. I knew everything about the regulars and would even visit them in hospital if I knew they took not well. Think that sort of thing is dying and it's sad to see.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

StephenHendry wrote: »

yes but also pubs need to start saying to some of their barstaff to cop the fcuk on if they can't be bothered making an effort to be nice, friendly to punters. you'd swear you were trying to rob the pub at gunpoint with the looks that some barworkers give you

Some bar staff just can't be bothered making an effort with customers, I always find that a smile and a 'Thank You' is as easy as firing the change back at the customer.

Having worked in the trade though, I can say that it works the other way aswell. Some punters can be so rude. They fire the money (Or credit card) on the counter rather than handing it to you, if theyre waiting to be served, rather than seeing that you're serving people in order and working your way towards them, they start waving their money in the air. Very aggravating. Then when theyre drunk some assholes will try telling you that they gave you a fifty when they gave you a twenty (forcing a spot check on the till) and just generally trying to piss you off.

All being said and done, I prefer being on the drinker's side of the bar.