Excessive Fees?

Bohrio

Hello everyone

I need your advice (not legal advice just based on your experiences). A few years ago I had motorbike accident. At first I wasnt going to go to a solicitor but after seeing that I was gonna have permanent issues with my leg due to the accident I decided to go ahead and do it.

At the beginning after visiting this solicitor they told me that they will charge me 250 euro per hour regardless of the total outcome.

A few months later they rang me and told me that they had changed their mind and decided to charge me a one off fee of 4000 euro, at the same time they told me that the other party had made an offer to settle for over 10k.

I was a bit surprised they decided to change this at the same time the other insurance company sent this offer. My solicitor said that I should not accept this as they believed I was entitled to more.

A few months went by and then they said that they were going to take my case to the high court. They said that by doing this the other party will pay all costs. I didnt know any better back then so I didnt say anything and everything went to ahead.

So a few years went by, while I had to pay for doctors fees etc (over 4000 euro worht) etc.. They guaranteed that all those costs were recoverable once the trial is over. A few days before the hearing date my solicitor contacted me again. I asked them why dont they try looking for a settlement before the hearing as the hearing kept being postponed all the time.

They said that it sounded like a good idea, so they contacted the other party and they made an offer. In the end they offer around 40K. The solicitor said that it was unlikely I'd get more than that.

So we agreed to settle, my solicitors sent me most of the money but they decided to keep a bit over 5 K. The alledged that it was just in case the other party wouldnt cover costs, which, sounded a bit weird to me.

Anyway in the end they said that the other party accepted most of the costs with the exception of a few minor things, just the costs of the barrister and other smalls costs. In the end, they gave me of those 5k only 1k.

I was very surprised with this so I asked for a bill of costs and found out that they charged the other insurance company (the other solicitor firm) over 29K for everything?????

Is this normal?

I am not from this country so I am not sure if this is a normal figure!!!!

I am thinking of putting a formal complain to the Law society of Ireland but I might seek legal advice before doing this. I just wanted to know if 29 K is normal or not.

Is a long way to go from those fix 4000 they were originally going to charge me.

Thanks everyone

MagicSean

Request a list of all costs from them. If they recovered costs from the other side they shouldn't really be charging you €4000. If they don't cooperate or if you aren't happy then make a complaint to the law society.

Bohrio

MagicSean wrote: »

Request a list of all costs from them. If they recovered costs from the other side they shouldn't really be charging you €4000. If they don't cooperate or if you aren't happy then make a complaint to the law society.

Thanks Seán

I will look into it

Avatargh

Bohrio wrote: »

Hello everyone

I need your advice (not legal advice just based on your experiences). A few years ago I had motorbike accident. At first I wasnt going to go to a solicitor but after seeing that I was gonna have permanent issues with my leg due to the accident I decided to go ahead and do it.

At the beginning after visiting this solicitor they told me that they will charge me 250 euro per hour regardless of the total outcome.

A few months later they rang me and told me that they had changed their mind and decided to charge me a one off fee of 4000 euro, at the same time they told me that the other party had made an offer to settle for over 10k.

I was a bit surprised they decided to change this at the same time the other insurance company sent this offer. My solicitor said that I should not accept this as they believed I was entitled to more.

A few months went by and then they said that they were going to take my case to the high court. They said that by doing this the other party will pay all costs. I didnt know any better back then so I didnt say anything and everything went to ahead.

So a few years went by, while I had to pay for doctors fees etc (over 4000 euro worht) etc.. They guaranteed that all those costs were recoverable once the trial is over. A few days before the hearing date my solicitor contacted me again. I asked them why dont they try looking for a settlement before the hearing as the hearing kept being postponed all the time.

They said that it sounded like a good idea, so they contacted the other party and they made an offer. In the end they offer around 40K. The solicitor said that it was unlikely I'd get more than that.

So we agreed to settle, my solicitors sent me most of the money but they decided to keep a bit over 5 K. The alledged that it was just in case the other party wouldnt cover costs, which, sounded a bit weird to me.

Anyway in the end they said that the other party accepted most of the costs with the exception of a few minor things, just the costs of the barrister and other smalls costs. In the end, they gave me of those 5k only 1k.

I was very surprised with this so I asked for a bill of costs and found out that they charged the other insurance company (the other solicitor firm) over 29K for everything?????

Is this normal?

I am not from this country so I am not sure if this is a normal figure!!!!

I am thinking of putting a formal complain to the Law society of Ireland but I might seek legal advice before doing this. I just wanted to know if 29 K is normal or not.

Is a long way to go from those fix 4000 they were originally going to charge me.

Thanks everyone

So, you're upset because as regards the costs of the action, you had to cover the 4k they said you would at the outset and recovered the rest from the other side? So, you've had to spend 4k on legal fees for a High Court personal injuries action?

What would you have preferred to happen here? Would you prefer they didn't bother looking for your costs from the other side and just billed you?

MagicSean

Avatargh wrote: »

So, you're upset because as regards the costs of the action, you had to cover the 4k they said you would at the outset and recovered the rest from the other side? So, you've had to spend 4k on legal fees for a High Court personal injuries action?

What would you have preferred to happen here? Would you prefer they didn't bother looking for your costs from the other side and just billed you?

If the other side pays the costs your solicitor can't just take an extra €4000 for no reason.

Bohrio

Avatargh wrote: »

So, you're upset because as regards the costs of the action, you had to cover the 4k they said you would at the outset and recovered the rest from the other side? So, you've had to spend 4k on legal fees for a High Court personal injuries action?

What would you have preferred to happen here? Would you prefer they didn't bother looking for your costs from the other side and just billed you?

Hello

The case never went to high court. My solicitor agreed for a settlement before it went to court.

I asked for a breakdown of the bills but it doesnt really breakdown their costs.

The 4000 (its actually more like 6500) are likely to come off what I had to pay the barrister/doctors/etc. But the funny thing is that I already paid them. Also, I find it suspicious the way that they were always referring to those fees as "small fees" but just the barristers fee is around 3000 euro.

Anyway thanks for your help, I guess I better get some legal advice before going any further as 29K could be a normal fee for a solicitor here in Ireland.

Also bothers me how they kept changing the fees, moving from the original 250 an hour to 4000 fix rate a year after, to now 29K.

Victor

Avatargh wrote: »

So, you're upset because as regards the costs of the action, you had to cover the 4k they said you would at the outset and recovered the rest from the other side? So, you've had to spend 4k on legal fees for a High Court personal injuries action?

That €4,000 seems to have been paid to the solicitor twice.

It comes across as somewhere between being light fingered and fraudulent.

tombren

Bohrio wrote: »

Hello everyone

I need your advice (not legal advice just based on your experiences). A few years ago I had motorbike accident. At first I wasnt going to go to a solicitor but after seeing that I was gonna have permanent issues with my leg due to the accident I decided to go ahead and do it.

At the beginning after visiting this solicitor they told me that they will charge me 250 euro per hour regardless of the total outcome.

A few months later they rang me and told me that they had changed their mind and decided to charge me a one off fee of 4000 euro, at the same time they told me that the other party had made an offer to settle for over 10k.

I was a bit surprised they decided to change this at the same time the other insurance company sent this offer. My solicitor said that I should not accept this as they believed I was entitled to more.

A few months went by and then they said that they were going to take my case to the high court. They said that by doing this the other party will pay all costs. I didnt know any better back then so I didnt say anything and everything went to ahead.

So a few years went by, while I had to pay for doctors fees etc (over 4000 euro worht) etc.. They guaranteed that all those costs were recoverable once the trial is over. A few days before the hearing date my solicitor contacted me again. I asked them why dont they try looking for a settlement before the hearing as the hearing kept being postponed all the time.

They said that it sounded like a good idea, so they contacted the other party and they made an offer. In the end they offer around 40K. The solicitor said that it was unlikely I'd get more than that.

So we agreed to settle, my solicitors sent me most of the money but they decided to keep a bit over 5 K. The alledged that it was just in case the other party wouldnt cover costs, which, sounded a bit weird to me.

Anyway in the end they said that the other party accepted most of the costs with the exception of a few minor things, just the costs of the barrister and other smalls costs. In the end, they gave me of those 5k only 1k.

I was very surprised with this so I asked for a bill of costs and found out that they charged the other insurance company (the other solicitor firm) over 29K for everything?????

Is this normal?

I am not from this country so I am not sure if this is a normal figure!!!!

I am thinking of putting a formal complain to the Law society of Ireland but I might seek legal advice before doing this. I just wanted to know if 29 K is normal or not.

Is a long way to go from those fix 4000 they were originally going to charge me.

Thanks everyone

There's too many variable and unknowns from what you're saying to adequately assess what your costs might be.

In relation to the 4k initially quoted to you, it would appear to me that initially the solicitor may have thought that your case was on the circuit court scale of damages and if that is the case, 4k would be about right for a straight forward circuit court PI.

you say that a few months later they decided to go to the High Court. There is a massive difference between circuit court and high court costs. For a matter that settles for 40k, legal fees of of 29K on a party and party basis to include vat, barrister fees, witness fees, report fees etc would be standard enough.

You would really need to get a breakdown in relation to the 4k. In all proceedings there are two sets of costs. Firstly the party and party costs which is all the necessary and reasonable costs incurred in successfully taking the case. The other side are only liable for some but not all costs. For example, most medical practitioners will charge €350.00 for a medico-legal report however on taxation of costs these will only be allowed at circa €285 so this is all the other side will pay.

In theory somebody has to make up the difference between the €350.00 and €285.00 and this is where solicitor and client costs come into play. You are meant be liable for any costs incurred that are not recoverable on a party and party basis. It is the same with engineer fees, actuary fees, barrister fees. no opposing party will pay these in their entirety. In most cases, these professionals will accept reductions to their fees but it is not always the case and the client is then left with the additional costs.

You said that you paid out over €4k to doctors. If this was in respect of treatment for your injuries (as opposed to medical examination for the purposes of the preparation of a report for trial) these are not legal fees but fees that would form part of your special damages claim. It is likely that monies payable to you in respect of special damages formed part of your 40k settlement. However if this 4k was paid in respect of reports for trial, engineer fees, actuary fees, then it should not have been deducted from your 40k settlement.

As i said - there's too many unknowns from what you are saying and all of the above is guess work or assumptions. Ask your solicitor for a breakdown of the solicitor and client costs of both the monies paid during the matter and the 4k paid after settlement. If you're not satisfied, request that he set the matter down for taxation. This is an independent hearing before a court official who adjudicates on the issue of costs. Your solicitor has to go down this route if you request it.

Avatargh

MagicSean wrote: »

If the other side pays the costs your solicitor can't just take an extra €4000 for no reason.

Yeah, grand.

That's a relevant point, if the other side paid the full bill on the solicitor-client side of things, rather than simply on the party-party side of things. It is not unusual for there to be non-recoverable elements.

Avatargh

tombren wrote: »

However if this 4k was paid in respect of reports for trial, engineer fees, actuary fees, then it should not have been deducted from your 40k settlement

Unless the other side refused to pay for some of them, and it was a deal-breaker. Unlikely, but as you point out, the fact scenario is too vague to jump to the "fraud" notions already being canvassed above.

Milk & Honey

It is extremely rare to secure solicitor and own client costs from the other side in a personal injury case. If solicitor and own client costs are charged to the client, it should have been made clear in the Section 68 letter that this would be done.

dats_right

Okay, firstly the primary obligation to discharge costs falls on the solicitors own client as a matter of contract regardless of any settlement. In many cases the other side will pay part or all of your costs if you are successful, but the primary rule still stands. If the other side do not pay all of your costs then your solicitor will seek to recover them from you and this is perfectly acceptable. See http://www.lawsociety.ie/Pages/Consumer-Interest/Public-Information-Leaflets-CMS/Legal-Charges/

With all due respect to the OP some of what they say doesn't fully ring true, I would imagine that this is because they may not have fully understood or appreciated exactly what their solicitor was telling them.

In any event before you all rush to condemn the solicitor for wrongdoing, might I suggest that there is most probably a perfectly legitimate explanation for the additional costs. For example it could be something as innocent as costs incurred arising from the initial PIAB application, which the other party refused to discharge.

James Jones

Bohrio wrote: »

A few months later they rang me and told me that they had changed their mind and decided to charge me a one off fee of 4000 euro.

Seems like they're trying it on. They should have given you an estimation of the fees IN WRITING , according to Section 68 of the Solicitors (Amendment) Act 1994.
Something similar happened to me but a letter outlining how my solicitor had broken the law and that I intended making a complaint to the Law Society resulted in a full refund of the €6,1050 (€5,000 + VAT!) stolen from me. I got a very nasty, aggressive letter as well but had a good laugh reading it with the cheque my hand. I also thought it funny that a solicitor would charge VAT on money stolen from a client.

Contra Proferentem

We need a independent regulatory commission for the profession, and something like this should hang in every firm in the country:

Kosseegan

When a person gets into a taxi they usually know where they are going and it can be estimated how long the journey will take within reason. A court case can drag out for years and take many twists and turns. It is only after it is over that the costs can be seen.

Contra Proferentem

Kosseegan wrote: »

When a person gets into a taxi they usually know where they are going and it can be estimated how long the journey will take within reason. A court case can drag out for years and take many twists and turns. It is only after it is over that the costs can be seen.

I know, but I was just trying to be sarcastic as to those who constantly suspect they're being "robbed" by Solicitors.

Victor

Kosseegan wrote: »

When a person gets into a taxi they usually know where they are going and it can be estimated how long the journey will take within reason. A court case can drag out for years and take many twists and turns. It is only after it is over that the costs can be seen.

So you can't set out what standard work costs? Even on a per hour basis?