Thomas a Kempis and the Imitation of Christ

Asry

Does this text make anybody else supremely uncomfortable or is it just me? The violence to the body sections, I mean.

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

Onesimus

Asry wrote: »

Does this text make anybody else supremely uncomfortable or is it just me? The violence to the body sections, I mean.

You'll have to provide us with a direct qoute in order to properly start a conversation or dialog about your problem with it. I've read it and never had a problem with any of it. Are talking about fasting and sleep deprivation? you'll have to shed more clarity and provide a qoute.

Onesimus

Asry

Here we are Apologies.

Let's see. These are from my Googlebooks search.

"Sometimes, however, thou must use violence and resist manfully thine appetite, not regarding what the flesh would or would not; but rather taking pains that even perforce it may be made subject to the Spirit" - p89

This is about patient men who undergo a wholesome purgatory - "[he] often offered violence to himself, and laboureth to bring his body wholly into subjection to the Spirit." - p38

"But blessed is the man, who for thy sake, O Lord, is willing to part with all creatures, who does violence to his nature, and through fervour of Spirit crucifieth the lusts of the flesh; that so with a serene conscience he may offer pure prayers unto thee..." p145

"The more violence thou usest against thyself, the greater shall be thy profiting." -p44

"Unless thou doest violence to thyself, thou shalt never get the victory over sin." p34

Do you see what I mean? I people have done some really harmful stuff to themselves because of this. Do you think things like this should be circulated? It's so extreme but apparently everyone reads it and uses it as a handbook. I think it's very dangerous. IMO anyway

gimmebroadband

I haven't read it yet myself, but if anyone is interested there is a free PDF version of the book, among others at the following link:

http://catholic-books.blogspot.com/

Onesimus

Asry wrote: »

Here we are Apologies.

Let's see. These are from my Googlebooks search.

"Sometimes, however, thou must use violence and resist manfully thine appetite, not regarding what the flesh would or would not; but rather taking pains that even perforce it may be made subject to the Spirit" - p89

This is about patient men who undergo a wholesome purgatory - "[he] often offered violence to himself, and laboureth to bring his body wholly into subjection to the Spirit." - p38

"But blessed is the man, who for thy sake, O Lord, is willing to part with all creatures, who does violence to his nature, and through fervour of Spirit crucifieth the lusts of the flesh; that so with a serene conscience he may offer pure prayers unto thee..." p145

"The more violence thou usest against thyself, the greater shall be thy profiting." -p44

"Unless thou doest violence to thyself, thou shalt never get the victory over sin." p34

Do you see what I mean? I people have done some really harmful stuff to themselves because of this. Do you think things like this should be circulated? It's so extreme but apparently everyone reads it and uses it as a handbook. I think it's very dangerous. IMO anyway

Hi Asry the word violence here is used in the archaic sense, it means fasting and hard labor in order to bring under control the desires of the flesh. St.Paul talks about it in his letters.

It is not to be taken as whipping oneself or anything of the sort. Some people do strange things in order to do penance like John Talbot who is up for sainthood used to wear chains under his clothes as penance for his sins. But we shouldnt do things our body is not capable of. Some people have the medical dispostion to fast for more than three days and others dont.

Granted though that people often read these books and take violence to mean a whole other thing and do stupid things to themselves not in accordance with Gods plan for them. So I suppose it might be worthy to bring out a different translation of the texts altogether.

Onesimus

georgieporgy

I read it many years ago. It's considered a spiritual classic. Onesimus is right. The term violence merely refers to resisting your natural inclinations.
For example, the drunk is inclined to have another drink. He has to overcome that inclination (do violence to it) so as not to succumb to the demon drink.
Ditto for the other vices.

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

alex73

I have read the book several times, As with all spiritual writings that one applies to their own lives any corporal mortification should only be done with the Guidance of a spiritual Director/Mentor.

You need an objective viewer of your spiritual path to know you are on the right path.

So as with any spiritual book, if in doubt call it out.