No Car tax. Going to court.

Yoyoma

Here's my story. I need some advise please.

I was stopped a few months back for driving without a current tax disc.

It was over a year out of date. I think it was up to September 09 so it was about 15months out.

The Gaurda who stopped me asked why. I told him the ECU went in my car, which is true, and I could not afford the new part as it was over €1000 parts and labour. I had only recently gotten the part and it was my first few days, two to be exact, back on the road with the car.

I had my NCT and Insurance sorted and the tax was the last thing to do but I hadn't gotten the time or money in the last couple of days to do this and it was the last item on the agenda, but I did plan on doing so straight away.

He told me he was going to get on the radio and run a check and that if my car had been stopped in the last two years he was going to seize the card. He did a radio check and the last time I was stopped was about 2006.

He told me I would get the €60 fine for not displaying tax and that would be the end of it. I asked him if I needed to produce the new tax disc within ten days and he said no, I had my NCT and insurance so he had no problem.

I never recived the fine but have gotten a summons this week instead. My car was taxed after this stop and is taxed until January 2012.

What are my options now? I plan on talking to the Gaurda and showing my tax but I wonder how much good this will do. I was willing to pay the fine but now I'm facing court. Does anyone know what is the most likely outcome? I plan on making my case with all documentation present to the judge but I'm worried about this.

Is a driving ban likely? Any advise would be appreciated.

smash

Worst case you'll have to pay back tax and get a conviction.

Yoyoma

Yoyoma wrote: »

Is a driving ban likely?

No chance

mickdw

When taxing it, did you pay the back tax or did you go to gardai to declare it off the road (even after being stopped)?

Zubeneschamali

mickdw wrote: »

When taxing it, did you pay the back tax or did you go to gardai to declare it off the road (even after being stopped)?

In particular, did you pay the tax for the month in which you were stopped?

166man

Yoyoma wrote: »

Here's my story. I need some advise please.

I was stopped a few months back for driving without a current tax disc.

It was over a year out of date. I think it was up to September 09 so it was about 15months out.

The Gaurda who stopped me asked why. I told him the ECU went in my car, which is true, and I could not afford the new part as it was over €1000 parts and labour. I had only recently gotten the part and it was my first few days, two to be exact, back on the road with the car.

I had my NCT and Insurance sorted and the tax was the last thing to do but I hadn't gotten the time or money in the last couple of days to do this and it was the last item on the agenda, but I did plan on doing so straight away.

He told me he was going to get on the radio and run a check and that if my car had been stopped in the last two years he was going to seize the card. He did a radio check and the last time I was stopped was about 2006.

He told me I would get the €60 fine for not displaying tax and that would be the end of it. I asked him if I needed to produce the new tax disc within ten days and he said no, I had my NCT and insurance so he had no problem.

I never recived the fine but have gotten a summons this week instead. My car was taxed after this stop and is taxed until January 2012.

What are my options now? I plan on talking to the Gaurda and showing my tax but I wonder how much good this will do. I was willing to pay the fine but now I'm facing court. Does anyone know what is the most likely outcome? I plan on making my case with all documentation present to the judge but I'm worried about this.

Is a driving ban likely? Any advise would be appreciated.

So you haven't paid road tax for more than two years? When did the ECU go in the car anyway? Was it two years ago or more recently?

MugMugs

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

In particular, did you pay the tax for the month in which you were stopped?

I believe that's the key point.

You were driving without TAX and must accept anything that comes to you for that but you should ensure that the arrears were paid for when you recommenced use of the vehicle.

This will be a good plea bargain with the Judge.

Also, Approach the Garda and explain the situation again and see what comes of it.

MidlandsM

Yeah, good advice above - go to court, be well turned out, cleanly shaven etc , speak to the guards before hand and explain the situation and the judge will probable give you a small fine etc.

Yoyoma

166man wrote: »

So you haven't paid road tax for more than two years? When did the ECU go in the car anyway? Was it two years ago or more recently?

I was stopped about 5-6 months ago. The car has been taxed ever since. I can't remember the exact date the last disc ran out but it was late 2009. Maybe 15 months is not right but its not much more.

The ECU went two years ago. It basically makes the car undriveable. It will start and run but its in fuel consumption mode and the top speed is extremely low and would hold up traffic and stick out like a sore thumb. I live close to my work so it was not a problem at the time.

I didn't back tax for the month or declare it off the road. I got a new tax form and a Gaurda stamp on it and was able to tax it for that month and onwards.

My sore point with this is the car was not siezed on the spot. My story checked out with and I was told I was getting a fine. If I was told to back date the tax and even if the car was taken to the compound I would have paid the tax and holding fines to aviod court. I was told I was getting a fine but got a court date instead.

What changed since? The Gaurda decided to ignore his own radio check and that my story was bull?

MugMugs

Yoyoma wrote: »

What changed since? The Gaurda decided to ignore his own radio check and that my story was bull?

Only the Garda knows. Perhaps he didn't recall the incident fully and just saw your details in his notebook so prosecuted.

Anyway, you TAXED your vehicle for the time you were caught. Also potentially obtain proof from the Garage whom diagnosed and fixed the issue for you with dates if possible. This could go toward assisting your plea.

cml387

Please don't tell us you got the tax form stamped to say it was off the road after you were stopped by the guard?

MugMugs

Yoyoma wrote: »

I didn't back tax for the month or declare it off the road. I got a new tax form and a Gaurda stamp on it and was able to tax it for that month and onwards.

cml387 wrote: »

Please don't tell us you got the tax form stamped to say it was off the road after you were stopped by the guard?

Riskymove

Yoyoma wrote: »

What changed since? The Gaurda decided to ignore his own radio check and that my story was bull?

I think you are being summoned because the fine was not paid

You seem to have not recieved it, its not the first time we've seen such a case

Yoyoma

cml387 wrote: »

Please don't tell us you got the tax form stamped to say it was off the road after you were stopped by the guard?

The stamp was to cover the previous off the road period. It was still taxed for the month I was stopped. These dates are filled in on the form.

Also the form was stamped without any details being noted I was about third in a line of people that had a form stamped with no questions being asked.

Edit: Sorry, my bad in explaining. I got it taxed for the month I was stopped and there on. I didn't pay any back tax before this month as it wasn't in use.

I said I didnt bax tax the month I was stopped. I did. I meant I didn't back tax anytime before this i.e. the long off the road period but I didn't declare it off the road for that period by any other means as I'm not aware of any such procedure. I know getting the form stamped is declaring it off the road for this period and I only did this when taxing the now operational vehicle.

Anan1

Yoyoma wrote: »

Also the form was stamped without any details being noted I was about third in a line of people that had a form stamped with no questions being asked.

But you gave the form to the Motor Tax office when you taxed the car, so it's now on file. Still, that shouldn't be a problem, as long as you paid the tax for the month in which you were stopped.

cml387

Yoyoma wrote: »

The stamp was to cover the previous off the road period. It was still taxed for the month I was stopped. These dates are filled in on the form.

Also the form was stamped without any details being noted I was about third in a line of people that had a form stamped with no questions being asked.

Sorry, I missed that bit.

Remember that all the guard is doing when signing the form is witnessing your signature to the declaration that the car was off the road.That's all.

AgileMyth

From my reading of this I reckon if you show up in court and explain the situation the case will be dismissed. Bring all your documents and you should be ok.

Riskymove

OP

Does the summons mention what you are being charged with?

Blazer

Yoyoma wrote: »

Here's my story. I need some advise please.

I was stopped a few months back for driving without a current tax disc.

It was over a year out of date. I think it was up to September 09 so it was about 15months out.

The Gaurda who stopped me asked why. I told him the ECU went in my car, which is true, and I could not afford the new part as it was over €1000 parts and labour. I had only recently gotten the part and it was my first few days, two to be exact, back on the road with the car.

I had my NCT and Insurance sorted and the tax was the last thing to do but I hadn't gotten the time or money in the last couple of days to do this and it was the last item on the agenda, but I did plan on doing so straight away.

He told me he was going to get on the radio and run a check and that if my car had been stopped in the last two years he was going to seize the card. He did a radio check and the last time I was stopped was about 2006.

He told me I would get the €60 fine for not displaying tax and that would be the end of it. I asked him if I needed to produce the new tax disc within ten days and he said no, I had my NCT and insurance so he had no problem.

I never recived the fine but have gotten a summons this week instead. My car was taxed after this stop and is taxed until January 2012.

What are my options now? I plan on talking to the Gaurda and showing my tax but I wonder how much good this will do. I was willing to pay the fine but now I'm facing court. Does anyone know what is the most likely outcome? I plan on making my case with all documentation present to the judge but I'm worried about this.

Is a driving ban likely? Any advise would be appreciated.

just meet up with the guard asap and bring the summons and car tax asap.
I had something similiar happen to me before and when I got a summons I just went back to the guard and asked him about it,...he admitted he must have forgotten to get it canned and promised asap to deal with it..which he did
Luckily he had his little black book with him which corroborated my story.

tossy

166man wrote: »

So you haven't paid road tax for more than two years? When did the ECU go in the car anyway? Was it two years ago or more recently?

There is always one with one foot in the stirrup of the moral high horse

unkel

You're very lucky OP that the car wasn't ceased on the spot. You did the right thing by taxing the car from the month you got caught. I'd say you get a small fine in court. Be polite and tell the truth.

Yoyoma

Talked to the Garda in question today and he was very helpful but he said he did send out the fine.

There was a slip left by the post office in my letterbox months back saying I wasn't home to sign for a registered letter. When I went to the post office with the slip they told me they had mislaid the letter. When the postman returned to the depot the letter was missing. I remember them telling me it had got mixed in with some other post and delivered to the wrong house or estate. They took my number and were going to get back to me with any news. They never did.

I never followed up either because the next week I recieved another registered letter, on what I now believe to be an unrelated matter. I thought either the post office had sorted this out or the sender had reissued a second letter but either way I had found out the contents of the original registered letter. Seems like I was wrong.

My memory was only jogged when the Garda said he had sent me the fine. He told me to go to the post office and obtain proof of failed postage and that he would tell the judge this. If I approach him that morning in court and refresh his memory about the whole incident he would ask the judge to strike it out as he believes I would have paid the fine. He said even if I can't get proof from the post office that he believes me and will still push the judge for a strike out. Worst case we catch the judge on an off day and i get a 60 euro to 100 euro fine, but he will try and prevent this. He was really helpful.

The only snag is when I called into the post office they told me they only keep records of registered letters for three weeks and then the slips get discarded. The letters themselves are held for three days if undelivered and they don't hold information electonically based on name's and addresses. In my case it was put through someonelse's letter box so I need to get the registered letter number, I get this form the Garda according to the post office. Each address is assigned a register number by the sender when they are posting the letter and they can only produce a history on the letter from this number.

Not sure why the Garda didn't think of this when asking me to go to the post office. I'm guessing it slipped his mind. I only hope he has a record of this or there is no history I can produce.

The above was a bit long winded but I thought I would post it anyway as there may be some useful information for others and details of how one or two things work.

None the less its looking a lot less bleak then this morning. If its struck out I get away with paying any fine Not the most noble thing to gloat about but a rare case of bad luck turning into good luck. As long as things go as planned in court on the morning in question

Riskymove

Yoyoma wrote: »

Talked to the Garda in question today and he was very helpful but he said he did send out the fine.

right, well I thought that looked like the most rational reason behind the summons...hopefully you can get it sorted

Zubeneschamali

They are sending fines by registered post now?

Good idea, but first time I've heard of it.

Yoyoma

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

They are sending fines by registered post now?

Good idea, but first time I've heard of it.

To be honest I'm not 100% on this. The postman I talked to wasn't sure also. I presume they are sending fines by registered post now because (a) the Garda said he sent the fine, and I never got it and (b) there was the case of the post office misplacing a registered letter on me. If it had been sent by regular post I would have it.

Can anyone confirm this? If I go back back to the Garda asking for numbers he might remember he decided to summons me after all and I could be back to square one. He did say he stops a lot of people and didn't remember me. Maybe its best to leave sleeping dogs lay and ask him the morning of my case to fight my corner as he said he would.