Single Fathers - can they stay at their childs home legit?

Fittle

How many nights can a father stay in the home of his children (legitimately) , when the mother is claiming lone parents allowance?

Im asking for a friend of mine - I know years ago dads were allowed to stay for 1 night and the mothers lone parents allowance wouldn't be affected - is that still the case, and if so, is it written down anywhere?? (Can't find anything on welfare.ie).
Thanks

mrsbyrne

If a man is seperated from the mother of his child/children why would he want to stay overnight? why does he not collect the child/children and take them to his own house? if he is having problems getting access to his children because he doesnt have suitable accomodation because hes having financial diffculty due to unemployment then he should speak to his local CWO about getting a bigger place.
if the mother of the child is getting OPFP then she is expected to be "parenting alone". Not with occaisonal help from the father, or any other partner she might have.Thats the way the SW inspectors see it any way. So, no nights is the answer to your question.

Fittle

In this case, they are together in a relationship. However, he lives with his parents in a different county and comes to Dublin and stays with her 2/3 nights a week. He doesn't contribute financially to the children as he is on JSB.

Anyway, she is in receipt of lone parents and rent allowance - she was told (not by me) that SW allow him to stay for X amount of nights per week, without it affecting any of her benefits.

I know this was definitely the case years ago, as a brother of mine and his girlfriend were in this situation, and when they were investigated, SW allowed him to stay 2 nights per week in his childrens home, without if affecting her payments.

Do you know for definite that 'no nights' is the answer mrsbyrne?

mrsbyrne

Fittle wrote: »

In this case, they are together in a relationship. However, he lives with his parents in a different county and comes to Dublin and stays with her 2/3 nights a week. He doesn't contribute financially to the children as he is on JSB.

Anyway, she is in receipt of lone parents and rent allowance - she was told (not by me) that SW allow him to stay for X amount of nights per week, without it affecting any of her benefits.

I know this was definitely the case years ago, as a brother of mine and his girlfriend were in this situation, and when they were investigated, SW allowed him to stay 2 nights per week in his childrens home, without if affecting her payments.

Do you know for definite that 'no nights' is the answer mrsbyrne?

No nights is the answer. If she is in a relationship with this guy and they are only seperated geographically then she is not technically entitled to OPFP at all, never mind him staying over 2/3 nights a week, so sooner or later the SW inspector will catch up with her and she could end up in a big overpayment.

Greenmachine

Firstly the mother is not entitled to one parent payment if they are still in relationship.
Secondly the fact that he is staying is certainly not allowed.
Finally not paying towards the costs of the child because he is on job seekers is a cop out.
I am sure he has money for cigarettes alcohol etc.

Fittle

Quite presumptious of you to assume he smokes & drinks, neither of which he does!

He lives at home and pays his keep to his mother and spends the remainder on his train fare from Cork to Dublin.

I wasn't aware that a woman parenting alone couldn't have a relationship however. She IS actually on her own most of the time - except for the two days he comes to Dublin - she has no other financial support - how is she to survive with two young children

mrsbyrne

Fittle wrote: »

Quite presumptious of you to assume he smokes & drinks, neither of which he does!

He lives at home and pays his keep to his mother and spends the remainder on his train fare from Cork to Dublin.

I wasn't aware that a woman parenting alone couldn't have a relationship however. She IS actually on her own most of the time - except for the two days he comes to Dublin - she has no other financial support - how is she to survive with two young children

If hes in a relationship with this girl and has two children with her then why is he not living with her and supporting her in every way financially, emotionally, physically? if i was a cynical person i would say it is because they as a couple can get more money from SW if they have two different addresses, but there you go ... incidentally she can of course be in a relationship but just not in a living together situation, ie staying overnight. Once again, SW are clamping down very heavily on this type of fraud.
If he moves in with her and his two children he could claim for them all on his JSB €372 altogether and still possibly get rent supplement and have a proper family life.

cee_jay

A person in receipt of OFP can be in a relationship with someone, and have them stay a couple of nights a week and keep their payment.
Geographical Separation comes into play when they have been married in most cases. It can affect those in relationships, but is harder to prove when the marriage tie does not exist.
However, if the situation were to come to the attention of a Social Welfare inspector, the OFP recipient would probably be investigated to find the full circumstances of the arrangement.

Fittle

cee_jay wrote: »

A person in receipt of OFP can be in a relationship with someone, and have them stay a couple of nights a week and keep their payment.

Is that written anywhere though? That was always my thinking of these situations - I'm a single parent myself but not on SW, but always thought that others could legitimately have their partners stay X amount of nights per week, without it affecting their payments. Unless it's an urban myth, as I can't find any reference to it online

Fittle

mrsbyrne wrote: »

If hes in a relationship with this girl and has two children with her then why is he not living with her and supporting her in every way financially, emotionally, physically?

I have no idea, you'd have to ask her that yourself as it's not something I've ever discussed with her. She doesn't have access to the internet at home, so I said I'd pose the question for her.

cee_jay

Fittle wrote: »

Is that written anywhere though? That was always my thinking of these situations - I'm a single parent myself but not on SW, but always thought that others could legitimately have their partners stay X amount of nights per week, without it affecting their payments. Unless it's an urban myth, as I can't find any reference to it online

Basically One-Parent Family Payment is not payable to a person who is in a relationship and living with another person of the opposite or same sex. It all comes down to what is considered living together.
The Department's guidelines on cohabitation can be found here:
http://www.welfare.ie/EN/OperationalGuidelines/pages/cohabit.aspx

Fittle

Thanks for that Cee-jay. I'll print that off and give it to her.

Do you know anything about council housing? She was given a council house 6 months ago and her rent has been means tested based on her own income - I assume the same would apply if the council thought he was staying there 2 nights per week?

paddy147

cee_jay wrote: »

Basically One-Parent Family Payment is not payable to a person who is in a relationship and living with another person of the opposite or same sex. It all comes down to what is considered living together.
The Department's guidelines on cohabitation can be found here:
http://www.welfare.ie/EN/OperationalGuidelines/pages/cohabit.aspx

So are you saying that in Ireland,no single mother can have a boyfriend (not the childs father) or a social life....and also is not allowed to stay overnight in the boyfriends house,even for 1 night???

And if they do,they lose their OFP allowence??

keredern

Fittle wrote: »

In this case, they are together in a relationship. However, he lives with his parents in a different county and comes to Dublin and stays with her 2/3 nights a week. He doesn't contribute financially to the children as he is on JSB.

Anyway, she is in receipt of lone parents and rent allowance - she was told (not by me) that SW allow him to stay for X amount of nights per week, without it affecting any of her benefits.

I know this was definitely the case years ago, as a brother of mine and his girlfriend were in this situation, and when they were investigated, SW allowed him to stay 2 nights per week in his childrens home, without if affecting her payments.

Do you know for definite that 'no nights' is the answer mrsbyrne?

In order to be entitled to a OPF payment, the claimant must not reside on a FULL TIME basis with a partner. In other words, not be cohabitating.

From what you have said, this lady complies with this requirement.

Anyone claiming a DSP payment is entitled to have overnight visitors regardless of whom they are!!!:)

As yet we are not living in a dictatorial State!!:eek:

In my experience, 3-4 nights is perfectly acceptable!

mrsbyrne wrote: »

No nights is the answer. If she is in a relationship with this guy and they are only seperated geographically then she is not technically entitled to OPFP at all, never mind him staying over 2/3 nights a week, so sooner or later the SW inspector will catch up with her and she could end up in a big overpayment.

This is incorrect!:o Being on a OPF payment does not affect a claimant's basic human rights, i.e. having overnight visitors!

Greenmachine wrote: »

Firstly the mother is not entitled to one parent payment if they are still in relationship.
Secondly the fact that he is staying is certainly not allowed.
Finally not paying towards the costs of the child because he is on job seekers is a cop out.
I am sure he has money for cigarettes alcohol etc.

Utterly unbelievable!!:eek: The claimant IS entitled to a OPF whether or not s/he is in a relationship with ANYONE including the father of the children!

As stated, DSP OPF section DO NOT dictate who can & cannot stay overnight in a claimant's home. As long as s/he is not residing with a partner on a full time basis, s/he is entitled to receive OPF (assuming all other criteria is in place!).

mrsbyrne wrote: »

If hes in a relationship with this girl and has two children with her then why is he not living with her and supporting her in every way financially, emotionally, physically? if i was a cynical person i would say it is because they as a couple can get more money from SW if they have two different addresses, but there you go ... incidentally she can of course be in a relationship but just not in a living together situation, ie staying overnight. Once again, SW are clamping down very heavily on this type of fraud.
If he moves in with her and his two children he could claim for them all on his JSB €372 altogether and still possibly get rent supplement and have a proper family life.

It is not for others to judge the choices being made by this couple without knowing ALL the facts (if at all!).;)

In a democratic society people are allowed to make their own choices around their living arrangements.

There are hundreds of couples in similar situations (by choice) & being in receipt of DSP should not & does not compromise anyone's right to choose how they live.

All of the above applies to anyone making an honest & truthful application.:)

egan2020

I'm not sure if the rules differ between counties but a friend of mine had been in receipt of OPF having had a baby last year. About three months ago, she received a letter to attend an interview at the local Social Welfare office. At the interview, she was asked if she was cohabiting with the father of the baby. She said he lived at home with his parents but usually spent three nights overnight at her house. She was advised there and then that she was NOT entitled to claim OPF and that having regard to the fact that the father was unemployed that they should all go on the one claim - presumably jobseekers (?). Her OPF was stopped immediately.

keredern

egan2020 wrote: »

I'm not sure if the rules differ between counties but a friend of mine had been in receipt of OPF having had a baby last year. About three months ago, she received a letter to attend an interview at the local Social Welfare office. At the interview, she was asked if she was cohabiting with the father of the baby. She said he lived at home with his parents but usually spent three nights overnight at her house. She was advised there and then that she was NOT entitled to claim OPF and that having regard to the fact that the father was unemployed that they should all go on the one claim - presumably jobseekers (?). Her OPF was stopped immediately.

The claimant should lodge an appeal immediately.

If she is not cohabitating, then she her entitlement is not compromised!

It is up to the Deciding Officer to prove that the claimant is cohab.

An Appeals Officer will make an independent review of her situation.

RXMPS

So if I stay at my mam's place a few nights a week, my OH will get lone parent allowance?

Nice.

That's perfect, I will be fed and found at my mam's, my girlfriend can pretend we are going through a bad patch and can quit her job get the LPA, Medical card , Rent allowance and god know's what else.

Love this country:D

cee_jay

We do not need 2 of the same thread ongoing at the same time. Please do not drag up old threads to ask the same question if you have created a thread for this issue already.